Are you buying Theia when it is available? (Poll)

Are you buying Theia when it is available?


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G37X Jockey

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I don't understand the references to filtering with Theia. IF Theia works as advertised, the only alerts we'll hear are real police radar. It will ignore everything else. If users want gun ID and frequency etc. Theia can provide that too, but actual filtering with the resulting reduction in sensitivity won't exist.
 

Heywood

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The only advantage, if any, and if I’m
reading the statement correctly.....

Getting an ID of a Falcon or Raptor might give you the small advantage that your closer to the threat than you might be with others.

Usual I can tell this by ramp up... if it’s C/O.

A straight on Raptor shot, could look like another regular powered K gun further away/ or around a bend/behind a hill/ in a dip.
 

Deacon

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Well, something else to think to think about in regards to gun ID.
Even combined, knowing the emitter info and signal strength does not provide any kind of reliable range estimation. I can appreciate that you're reaching for the stars, but that kind of function really isn't feasible within this context.
 

CarefulDriver

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Doesn't Uniden detectors with GPS have some sort of range display?
 

SwankPeRFection

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Even combined, knowing the emitter info and signal strength does not provide any kind of reliable range estimation. I can appreciate that you're reaching for the stars, but that kind of function really isn't feasible within this context.
Why not? There should be published manufacturer info on distance a gun will reach for legal engagement, etc. It has to have specifics, otherwise tickets issued could be argued out on distance alone. I didn’t say it needed to be exact, but if you combine these manufacturer’s spec info with texted guns and their reach by the lab team and come up with a table for it, when combined with signal strength, I bet you can get a pretty good guess on how far that cop is. Hell, I bet even if Theia doesn’t have a feature like this but gives gun ID to the user, over time, they will be able to learn and guess an expected range based on ramp-up and gun ID alone vs visual terrain info they’re seeing themselves and take info account. Maybe not everyone will have this ability, but really observant individuals with an eye for detail will. If it’s possible that way, then it’s possible with technology to a point, and that’s all I’m saying.
 

Deacon

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InsipidMonkey

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The received signal strength is going to be hugely affected by many factors:
1. What direction the gun is facing
2. What direction the receiver is facing
3. Obstructions between you and the gun
4. What things the signal is reflecting off of
5. Weather
6. Actual gun power output
etc

Assuming ideal circumstances you could come up with an estimate for the maximum distance the gun could be from your location, but that value would be so large in most cases as to be useless.
 

G37X Jockey

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Why not? There should be published manufacturer info on distance a gun will reach for legal engagement, etc. It has to have specifics, otherwise tickets issued could be argued out on distance alone. I didn’t say it needed to be exact, but if you combine these manufacturer’s spec info with texted guns and their reach by the lab team and come up with a table for it, when combined with signal strength, I bet you can get a pretty good guess on how far that cop is. Hell, I bet even if Theia doesn’t have a feature like this but gives gun ID to the user, over time, they will be able to learn and guess an expected range based on ramp-up and gun ID alone vs visual terrain info they’re seeing themselves and take info account. Maybe not everyone will have this ability, but really observant individuals with an eye for detail will. If it’s possible that way, then it’s possible with technology to a point, and that’s all I’m saying.
What you're suggesting would be approximately possible if we all drove on flat, straight roads without adjacent trees and hills etc. but we don't.
A given radar gun might be detectable at 8 kms distance on the plains of Nebraska where there are no obstacles between Theia and the gun, but on a twisting mountain road in the Rocky mountains, that same radar gun, obscured by hills, curves, foliage etc. might not be detectable beyond 300 meters.
It just isn't possible for Theia to know what's between it and the radar gun, so judging distance is left to the driver.
Hope that explains it.
 

SwankPeRFection

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Some of you have no vision. Maybe someone will write a little project app for the detector and see what happens. Every detector has a ramp-up rate, so the distance calculation can reference that as an adjustment. The directional horns will tell you ahead or behind and GPS can place you on exactly what road you’re on and your direction of travel and take road conditions into account. Initially it can use road layout as a primary base calculation for base interference (bends in the road, etc.) live traffic pulled from Google Maps can add a layer of calculation for traffic interference, etc. I’m not saying it’s easy, but damn, if the stupid basic ramp-up on all detectors can audibly cause a human to estimate proximity to threat enough for us to scan an estimated area ahead of us and pinpoint the cop, this can be done too. I don’t know about you, but when my detector goes off, I look at direction, then I take signal levels into account and rate on ramp-up and I can generally get an idea of how far away I’m from the cop based on how those things change. Absolutely it’s not exact, but I also have very limited knowledge I’m working with. I don’t have frequency, I don’t have gun model info, I don’t have specs for power vs range of those guns (which BTW, I’m willing to bet that when power gets messed with on a gun, something looks different on that readout that Theia sees). Add all those data points into the calculation and it leads to even more to work with to estimate. Just remember this... at one point, radar detector companies didn’t do what Jon is doing because his idea for Theia is a different way of looking at radar detection. It’s a different concept... hell, look at his discussion of detecting cops not yet shooting radar by detecting their RDDs (if using one) as a warning trigger. All these things are possible if the concept is visionary enough. Nothing would ever get done if all we ever say is “No, it can’t be done, not even in theory.” Maybe not today, but that’s today...
 

NVR2FST

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Doesn't Uniden detectors with GPS have some sort of range display?
You can't measure range with a R.D. You can the measure received signal strength and get a very rough estimation of signal direction if you have two antennas.

MAYBE, if you could measure the direction of the received signal fairly accurately (but you can't) over time AND either you or the emitter or both were moving you could deduce range.
 

Jon at Radenso

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The concept of creating a range estimate is very alluring but I am not sure if it's possible. That being said, I'm also not willing to say it's not.

Let's say we pick up an IO burst of a Falcon HR. Okay cool, we know what gun it is. Hence, we also know it's power output, antenna gain, and emitter specifications. If we were in ideal conditions, straight line, directly on axis with absolutely nothing in between, it would be possible to calculate range if we know the emitter specifications.

Unfortunately, we don't drive in those scenarios. As people pointed out, emitters aren't always stationary, and we aren't always directly on axis with no obstacles in the beam path. This would make it seem that it would be impossible to get range.

That being said, I also do not want to discount the power of context. For example, if we can someday fingerprint a specific emitter and have it remember that it is always a stationary threat (and not moving), it may theoretically be possible to calculate distance given the detector also has context of the terrain, direction of travel, speed, etc. Technically, there is nothing preventing the detector from taking into account humidity, temperature, elevation, etc.

I want to be clear, that is all 100% speculation. We absolutely do not have a working prototype that can detect range of a police gun right now. I am skeptical we will be able to do that eventually. But I'm also not going to rule it out.
 
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NVR2FST

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I don't know how directional R.D. antennas are. I would think that they are not very directional because we do, after all, want to get the best off-axis detection we can. But what if a R.D. could rotate 45° to the right and to the left of straight ahead? Could signal strength be correlated to the direction the detector was pointing? Could this information be used to deduce the direction of the signal? And if so, could this data, over time, and if either the emitter or the receiver were moving, be used to deduce by triangulation the distance between the emitter and the receiver? Just another of my crazy ideas.
 

SwankPeRFection

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Right on Jon. At least you’re not discounting it. Also, when I was taking about it, I wasn’t thinking of I/O. C/O would, in theory, be easier to calculate due to the constant data points the detector had to work with. I/O would definitely be harder with a single long range hit and would need more than one to do anything, even a simple calculation that “you’re getting closer”, which is what basically signal strength/ramp up would indicate to the user when multiple hits happen ahead of you. All in all, I find it interesting how the human brain can get accustomed to patterns we’ll be learning and seeing which tells us we’re in proximity of something, but making a computer calculate all that based on various factors is so much more complex. I mean think about it... our eyes tell us weather, terrain, traffic conditions, bends in the road, line of sight, etc. and we take all that in and then what a detector tells us by sound and lights and we can pretty much guess what to expect distance wise for the source. We take all of that basic brain power for granted far too often, ya know?
Post automatically merged:

Great idea for Theia Easter egg... rainbow arrows, when you engage 🦄 mode. Haha
 
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Jon at Radenso

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Right on Jon. At least you’re not discounting it. Also, when I was taking about it, I wasn’t thinking of I/O. C/O would, in theory, be easier to calculate due to the constant data points the detector had to work with. I/O would definitely be harder with a single long range hit and would need more than one to do anything, even a simple calculation that “you’re getting closer”, which is what basically signal strength/ramp up would indicate to the user when multiple hits happen ahead of you. All in all, I find it interesting how the human brain can get accustomed to patterns we’ll be learning and seeing which tells us we’re in proximity of something, but making a computer calculate all that based on various factors is so much more complex. I mean think about it... our eyes tell us weather, terrain, traffic conditions, bends in the road, line of sight, etc. and we take all that in and then what a detector tells us by sound and lights and we can pretty much guess what to expect distance wise for the source. We take all of that basic brain power for granted far too often, ya know?
Post automatically merged:

Great idea for Theia Easter egg... rainbow arrows, when you engage 🦄 mode. Haha
In fairness, your brain has the same handicap as the radar detector. You don't know if a weak signal is weak because it's a close-up low power K band gun shooting off-axis through trees from .25 miles away, or a high power gun you are detecting from 8 miles away.

It's the same problem a radar detector has.

What I'm saying is that someday it might be possible to overcome this handicap with a computer's super-human ability to remember context and have access to tons of instantaneous and diverse data points.
 

SwankPeRFection

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^^^ Doesn’t the ID of the gun tell you some of that? Do cops actually have the ability, and do they actually do it, to lower gun power to try and fool people using detectors? If not, then gun ID would rule the closer gun out as if it’s ID’d as a high powered gun, the chance of it being closer is lower since the signal isn’t as high. Right? Again, I don’t have access to these guns, so I don’t know their capabilities, but the last few mounted units functions manual I skimmed through didn’t have much on user adjustable power settings on it.
 

Jon at Radenso

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^^^ Doesn’t the ID of the gun tell you some of that? Do cops actually have the ability, and do they actually do it, to lower gun power to try and fool people using detectors? If not, then gun ID would rule the closer gun out as if it’s ID’d as a high powered gun, the chance of it being closer is lower since the signal isn’t as high. Right? Again, I don’t have access to these guns, so I don’t know their capabilities, but the last few mounted units functions manual I skimmed through didn’t have much on user adjustable power settings on it.
Gun ID won't help in this case. The problem is you don't know if the signal is weak because it's obstructed by something or if it's from far away. For the most part, no, cops don't have the ability to alter gun output.

Let's say at 1 mile distance in open, perfect, conditions, a Falcon HR registered -60db signal strength. Let's also assume that if you shoot the Falcon HR through trees, it will drop signal strength by 20db.

If Theia picks up a -60db Falcon HR signal, there is typically no way to know if it's a -60db line of sight detection (further away), or a -40db shot through trees that is much closer (which you are reading as -60db because of the tree attenuation).
 

SwankPeRFection

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^^^ Makes sense, but with additional data of how much a signal can degrade from a particular gun based on obstruction, weather, etc. one could come up with some kind of sliding scale range of some kind. I mean, you are already providing ramp-up based on existing signal strength, so in a way, that ramp-up is giving the user a general idea on distance from source already. I think I’m going to be looking forward to seeing what Theia can provide the user visually with the signal form and taking all that in and seeing if I can start to see patterns or at least some kind of guide based on existing data it provides. I’m hoping for an option to display more useful info than what other RDs, even with apps connected, can currently provide. Based on situational observations, maybe it could be possible for an app to do this off-board... it’s just a matter of solving some of those variables or at least logically guesstimate them based on past experiences... like an expected behavior model of the radar gun with or without given interference.

BTW, a bit off topic, but why did you go with aluminum instead of magnesium for the case? I don’t remember if that was in the FAQ or not. I thought the added benefit with magnesium was additional shielding, despite the circuits needing it or not. (I know you said somewhere that higher quality circuit design would actually give off less detectable signals or something along those lines.)
 

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