Will Theia be able to filter Lidar for driver assistance systems?

DocTJ

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(just my opinion )
I’m begging you : please don’t spend any extra money on anything more when it comes to laser and Theia.
whether you tweak it to be amazing and detect every gun, it still wont jam, so still won’t be the “best”, even if it saves someone due to scatter.
most of us who understand the threat of laser have parking sensors installed or at least plan on it one day.
i (most of us) would rather that cash and resources go towards radar anything. You’re on the right path and have the right goal in mind. Time is already lost. Let’s not waste anymore.
I’m happy to read your last post above.
thanks Jon
 
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Randy at Radenso

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A bit disappointed in Jon’s post above. If the hardware isn’t there (the last portion about V’s optics possibly being better) no amount of software will improve it. Let’s hope you’re wrong on that Jon and the optics are as good and the software can be dialed in. 🤞
I don’t understand this reply whatsoever. Jon said we will do our best but as I already said previously, we could have the best ever laser detector ever in the world and you still need to be using a laser jammer with a radar detector.
 

Jon at Radenso

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A bit disappointed in Jon’s post above. If the hardware isn’t there (the last portion about V’s optics possibly being better) no amount of software will improve it. Let’s hope you’re wrong on that Jon and the optics are as good and the software can be dialed in. 🤞
That's not necessarily true. If we can ignore falses we can potentially crank the gain to ridiculous levels in software to make up for it. What I'm trying to tell you is, right now I don't know and don't really care about LIDAR compared to radar. It might or might not have better sensitivity than the V1. But it will certainly be more useful, since Vortex's own recommendation is to disable laser detection on the V1 due to falsing. By that metric, we will certainly be more sensitive than a disabled LIDAR detection (which is how most V1 users run theirs).
 

SwankPeRFection

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I don’t understand this reply whatsoever. Jon said we will do our best but as I already said previously, we could have the best ever laser detector ever in the world and you still need to be using a laser jammer with a radar detector.
It was because Jon said that he’s not sure how good Theia’s laser optics are in relation to what the V1 is using now. It’s in his post, I just didn’t quote it, but it’s in there. I’m guessing he’s probably erroring in the side of caution in case the optics aren’t good enough, but that’s why I said what I said.

I’ve had several saves from scatter and I fully trust that side of the V1 over any other detector when it comes to scatter pickup. That’s where this is coming from. I get that dead on detection won’t save you, but the best in the business scatter detection HAS saved me multiple times so far as indicated in other posts I’ve made. Would I benefit more from jammers? Yes, but I don’t feel like spending that money right now and I don’t feel like getting hassled over them in one state I travel to should a nosy cop decide to be difficult. And bottom line, if Theia isn’t the average cost of a really good windshield detector and it’s more, wouldn’t it be nice to know you’re not buying something with less laser capability than a V1? That’s what I’m trying to get at. I want better, I’ll pay for it, but I don’t want to shortchange things for more money, but that’s just me. Hope that explanation makes sense.
 

Jon at Radenso

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It was because Jon said that he’s not sure how good Theia’s laser optics are in relation to what the V1 is using now. It’s in his post, I just didn’t quote it, but it’s in there.
That's not what I said at all. I said we haven't done much optics development yet, so there isn't any optics to compare to the V1 with. I said my guess was our bare photodiode without optics was less sensitive than the V1. But we didn't do much testing yet since nobody in the world outside of a few V1 fanatics on this forum will care about laser sensitivity. It is much more important to me to curb stomp other detectors on radar sensitivity. I run ALP - you should too.
 

SwankPeRFection

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That's not necessarily true. If we can ignore falses we can potentially crank the gain to ridiculous levels in software to make up for it. What I'm trying to tell you is, right now I don't know and don't really care about LIDAR compared to radar. It might or might not have better sensitivity than the V1. But it will certainly be more useful, since Vortex's own recommendation is to disable laser detection on the V1 due to falsing. By that metric, we will certainly be more sensitive than a disabled LIDAR detection (which is how most V1 users run theirs).
Yeah, but he runs jammers or made that recommendation strictly due to falsing, which inherently kills the user’s scatter protection. Based on my own experiences, had I used his suggestion, I’d have gotten at least 2 or possibly all 4 of the tickets from my saves I’ve experienced. I would put money on that based on what I’ve seen first hand. But hey, not everyone has to agree. Only thing I was saying is that I hope the physical optical parts are on par. If they are, then software is easy to upgrade. It’s like your optics alignment you spoke about in terms of the flat laser diode vs the domed one... if the physical alignment if off, no amount of software magic will fix that. That why I say that hopefully (not sure how patented their Lidar eye design is) your design is as good as V’s. I personally hope it is.
 

Godowsky17

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That's not necessarily true. If we can ignore falses we can potentially crank the gain to ridiculous levels in software to make up for it. What I'm trying to tell you is, right now I don't know and don't really care about LIDAR compared to radar. It might or might not have better sensitivity than the V1. But it will certainly be more useful, since Vortex's own recommendation is to disable laser detection on the V1 due to falsing. By that metric, we will certainly be more sensitive than a disabled LIDAR detection (which is how most V1 users run theirs).
I don't know why so many people seem so obsessed with the lidar detection when you are going to have to run jammers anyway. I'm glad to hear you say you won't be leaving any radar performance on the table to chase better lidar sensitivity. I'm sure there are a lot of other users who feel similarly.
 

SwankPeRFection

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That's not what I said at all. I said we haven't done much optics development yet, so there isn't any optics to compare to the V1 with. I said my guess was our bare photodiode without optics was less sensitive than the V1. But we didn't do much testing yet since nobody in the world outside of a few V1 fanatics on this forum will care about laser sensitivity. It is much more important to me to curb stomp other detectors on radar sensitivity. I run ALP - you should too.
I thought you said in one of your videos that you picked the flat diode so that you’d have a better platform for optics alignment. I took that to mean that you were placing optics in front of it. If you’re not, then Theia is not for me. I can definitely say that based on that alone. So, are you doing optics on it or no?
 

Jon at Radenso

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I thought you said in one of your videos that you picked the flat diode so that you’d have a better platform for optics alignment. I took that to mean that you were placing optics in front of it. If you’re not, then Theia is not for me. I can definitely say that base on that some. So, are you doing optics on it or no?
Yes but we didn't do optics development yet as I said multiple times. Because it's just not that important to me relative to radar features. Optics development will come dead last behind every radar feature.

That being said, if you're willing to get half the radar range to get 10% better LIDAR detection, I would suggest you rethink your priorities of what you look for in a radar detector.
 

SwankPeRFection

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Jon, I think we’re still on different fronts in terms of what we’re both saying here. I don’t want you to kill range on radar detection and honestly, I expect that part to be worlds better than what other detectors are if you’re going to change a lot for this thing. I think a lot of us aren’t so much looking forward to Theia strictly from a range standpoint as opposed to what it can do for getting rid of falsing and just from the tech approach aspect of detection based on signatures and frequency together than just frequency alone. But the thing is, how much range do you really need? Hell man, unless you’re gonna tell me Theia is going to be able to be hooked up to an app and overlay on a map and actually tell me a somewhat exact location of radar source on said map, then too much range is going to be just as annoying because legit or not, me picking up a cop two blocks down, off-axis on a road off the highway I’m driving, which will never shoot me speeding along, doesn’t matter to me or better said, doesn’t apply to my situation at the time. Frankly, that’s a bit of what’s happening now with the much longer range of the V1G2... people driving highway and it’s alerting 1 bar to Ka on side streets that don’t even matter to the driver in those situations. I’ve seen the early on videos where this is most likely happening.

Anyway, please don’t misunderstand. I’m not here to throw shade at your stuff or toot the V1 horn. I’m in the market for the best all in one solution... and therein lies one of my biggest issues in life. I like maximizers. I like best solutions in singular packages. I like optimized dynamic products. I will take a product that can do 90% of 3 things by itself than 3 separate products that can do 100% of their own speciality.

A bit off topic here but it might help to understand me better since you’re a car guy and will get this. I absolutely hate piggybacks or even newer/better hybrid like flashable piggyback ECU tuning solutions. I will flat out wait for a full flash for the ECU to tune a car and I prefer a solution I can flash myself than to take it somewhere to have it done each time. I don’t even 100% care for the newer Syvecs solutions as they are not a TRUE standalone. (You’re not pulling out the stock ECU and replacing it. It works in conjunction with, so it’s just a more advanced piggyback.) I’ve run true standalones on cars before, both from AEM and Apexi’s PowerFC... those were true ECU replacements.
 

Deacon

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I’ve had several saves from scatter
A handful of others have claimed one or two saves over the years due to scatter, too. It’s very much a distant secondary function of any radar detector, with few finding it useful and no one by definition finding it an effective defense against lidar threats. If you actually care even the slightest about lidar—even just detection for some reason—then you’re wildly better off with even a single head used lidar system installed.

Theia will have the advantage of (hopefully) minimizing or fully eliminating falses since it has the hardware in its design to potentially positively identify lidar threats. If it can do so successfully, it will then be far more useful than any other windshield detector that has ever existed, even if it’s optics aren’t great.

I fully trust that side of the V1 over any other detector when it comes to scatter pickup.
Do so at your own peril. Any such result is truly a rare serving of gravy, not even a side dish.

Jon, I think we’re still on different fronts in terms of what we’re both saying here.
I don’t think so. I think you’re just dissatisfied with the response that lidar detection is not a primary focus and that they think they’ll be good at it but haven’t designed the optics yet and thus aren’t making any guarantees versus the V1’s optic. You threatened to not buy Theia if its lidar detection isn’t more sensitive than the V1. That’s fine. That’s not what a radar detector is for, and if they make the best radar detector in the world with a lidar optic that isn’t quite as sensitive, few will stand with you in refusing to buy it for that reason.

Yes, it would be super cool if Theia also boasted the most sensitive lidar detection, too, and made it actually tolerable with filtering. But even if someone gave you an ALP system with a single RX head for you to mount behind your windshield, it would still be only minimally useful as a lidar CM.
 
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MikePA

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It would be nice if all the 'I want my radar detector to detect laser better' posts could be in a single thread I could ignore.

Money (time and hardware) spent by any radar detector manufacturer on laser detection has to be recouped in the selling price. Why should the vast majority of people who buy radar detectors, to detect radar, have to pay more for what will never be anything but a very mediocre laser detector?
 

G37X Jockey

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When I read comments in various threads about "why do we need so much range? My brand X is plenty good enough thanks", I just roll my eyes. Sure if you only ever drive on the flat plains of central North America that's likely valid, but for the rest of us who drive hilly mountainous terrain, there's no such thing as too much range. No existing RD is truly adequate to find I/O waiting 3 miles down the road in the Rocky mountains.
Give us all the range Theia can muster Jon. Bring it on!
 

SwankPeRFection

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I/O is where the range benefit is. But the thing has to be informative. Again, are you willing to slow down for an I/O hit that might not be on your current travel route and for how long? You’d keep driving for miles and never see the cop and eventually give up? Isn’t that almost as bad as a false? I guess it’s all situational and user preference at this point.

As for what band the detector should have or not (for the anti-laser guys), how about we just remove X band altogether also if you don’t think laser needs to be on there? In my book, X is needed for the same reasons laser is needed. The “what if” scenario. And for the hundreds of bucks this thing will cost, why would anyone go back out and have to tack on the cost of an ALP system to make up for something that was removed? It makes no sense. You can’t corner the radar market without outperforming all other detectors on ALL capabilities.

Anyway, I’m looking forward to what it’ll be once it’s out. Like I said, I totally dig the approach that Jon went with on the detector for the logic, so that’s the big appeal to me on the matter.
 

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OBeerWANKenobi

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When I read comments in various threads about "why do we need so much range? My brand X is plenty good enough thanks", I just roll my eyes. Sure if you only ever drive on the flat plains of central North America that's likely valid, but for the rest of us who drive hilly mountainous terrain, there's no such thing as too much range. No existing RD is truly adequate to find I/O waiting 3 miles down the road in the Rocky mountains.
Give us all the range Theia can muster Jon. Bring it on!
This still stands LOL:
If anyone complains about having too much sensitivity when they have the ability to dial it down, I'm going to find them and smack them with a trout.
Watch me.
Liked for attitude alone. :waycool:
 

SwankPeRFection

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Watch me.
When Theia becomes a custom installed unit with integrated Lidar defense all in one package, that’s when that will happen. At least in my book anyway. But different people have different opinions on what the perfect solution is... and that’s fine.
 

MikePA

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And for the hundreds of bucks this thing will cost, why would anyone go back out and have to tack on the cost of an ALP system to make up for something that was removed?
Who said something was going to be removed?

P.S.
Hopefully, this question will not be considered 'officiously defend[ing] Radenso'. If it is, please let me know and I will edit it.
 
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Jon at Radenso

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When Theia becomes a custom installed unit with integrated Lidar defense all in one package, that’s when that will happen. At least in my book anyway. But different people have different opinions on what the perfect solution is... and that’s fine.
Custom install is less than 1% of the total market. Uniden cornered the market just fine without one.
 

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