Will Theia be able to filter Lidar for driver assistance systems?

F150Dude

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just read an article where Volvo will sell cars with built-in Lidar for steering, braking and battery power in 2020 with possible future enhancements for driver assistance systems. I know it is early and all the BSU "filtering" being talked about is for radar, but wonder if this is something that could be built in after launch at some point?
 

sdrawkcaB

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Deacon

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Relying on any windshield detector for lidar defense is a losing gamble regardless, but they have said they built in the hardware needed to identify lidar threats just like lidar defense systems do, so “filtering” (aka only alerting to legit threats) should be an inherent feature, whether day one or later.
 

Godowsky17

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Jon has said Theia could even be programmed to differentiate between individual lidar guns (not sure if this functionality will be available at launch). So certainly distinguishing falses which aren't even on the same wavelength should be no problem.
 

SwankPeRFection

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I'm personally interested in just how good the Lidar detection capabilities of this detector will be. Me personally, I'm a V1 fan and truly trust the laser detection eye in the V1 to be better than any other I've seen so far. While I'm not in the belief that if I get hit head on with laser it's going to save me, I have been in more than one scenario where I've not been the first car the cop shoots with Lidar and I have most definitely detected it and slowed down. Heck, it actually happened last night again and I found it kind of ironic because I'd normally and actually did for a split second dismiss it as a Volvo or other car because I tend to get those more than legit cop hits. It was a two lane residential area around a bend that leaves a friend's house and the speed is marked so low (25) that going 35 is still more than safe but an easy ticket for a cop to right as 10 over in this case. The point I'm making is that regardless of if Theia will have ALP integration or if people should have ALP to be protected against Lidar, I myself pick a V1 over other detectors because of both the Lidar and regular radar capabilities in the same unit. From personal experience, I have not used or seen another detector react as well to non-direct hits with Lidar as my V1 does and that's why I'm reluctant to move to something else. The thing is, I'm very tech aware and tech savvy. Having been in the tech industry for more than 25 years, I like a more tech approach to things, so Theia and its approach as a radar source detector is quite intriguing to me and from that standpoint alone, I would prefer it, but not if I have to sacrifice something else that I know for sure has always been better than what Radenso has been able to do so far. So, Jon, can Theia's Lidar eye be just as good or better than Valentine's? I mean, for possibly a $1k+ detector.... (You've already said it's no $500 detector, so it's either around the $800 mark or based on costs alone of parts you're showing, it'll be slighly below an integrated radar solution and those aren't cheap.) it needs to be.

I really want to be wowed by Theia and it's abilities as the overall detector (not just the software/brains), but I have to be honest... the Pro M, which is supposedly the best you've got now for windshield mounted solutions, isn't wowing me one bit by its performance/results. Fingers crossed...
 
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G37X Jockey

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I too was wowed by the laser sensitivity of my V1 and it's ability to detect scatter. What didn't wow me was the V1's complete lack of laser filtering, which drove me nuts until I installed ALP's (which don't false) and turned laser OFF on the V1.
Theia will need ALP level laser selectivity, or that particular feature will be useless to me.
 

Godowsky17

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I too was wowed by the laser sensitivity of my V1 and it's ability to detect scatter. What didn't wow me was the V1's complete lack of laser filtering, which drove me nuts until I installed ALP's (which don't false) and turned laser OFF on the V1.
Theia will need ALP level laser selectivity, or that particular feature will be useless to me.
This is the problem with sensitive laser detection on radar detectors. The detectors just don't have the processing power on board to do the amount of filtering it would require to avoid constant falsing, nor do the companies want to spend thousands and thousands of development dollars improving a feature which is still just going to be a ticket notifier 99% of the time.

@SwankPeRFection - I expect Theia would have the processing power to do this filtering, but I'd rather Jon put his effort into creating the best possible radar detector rather than working on the lidar aspect. If you want to combat lidar, buy jammers.
 

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I’m sorry everyone but regardless if we could make laser detection 100% perfect with 0 laser false alerts, you will ALWAYS still need a laser jammer with any radar detector.

but I have to be honest... the Pro M, which is supposedly the best you've got now for windshield mounted solutions, isn't wowing me one bit by its performance/results. Fingers crossed...
We have mentioned this several times in the past but I think some people don’t realize still that but we have not previously designed any of the hardware or software in-house for our current products. Radenso Theia is being designed from scratch in Cincinnati by our engineers. Theia will be everything what we (Radenso) have wanted a windshield radar detector to be. It will be worth the wait.
 
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InsipidMonkey

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This is the problem with sensitive laser detection on radar detectors. The detectors just don't have the processing power on board to do the amount of filtering it would require to avoid constant falsing, nor do the companies want to spend thousands and thousands of development dollars improving a feature which is still just going to be a ticket notifier 99% of the time.
I doubt it's the processing power or filtering (a LIDAR detector would only really have to measure a 4000 Hz pulse rate, with most being ~100-200 Hz.). I think it's more sensitivity and algorithm based (to differentiate between vehicle ACC LIDARs and speed-measuring LIDARs). The companies that have sensitive enough LIDAR detection to actually afford a save in many cases, have not, until recently, had any way to keep their LIDAR detection algorithms up to date enough to keep up with current threats. If your philosophy is to never miss a legit alert, the tendency is going to be to alert to everything to be on the safe side.

From what has been disseminated so far, it sounds like Theia will be tweakable and customizable to a degree we have never seen before in a RD. If it has an open API and a *nix based OS, it's capabilities as far as radar and lidar detection are probably only limited by our imagination (and the skills of the developers that take on the task). We don't know anything about Theia's lidar sensitivity yet, but I'm sure whatever it is able to detect will be able to be filtered to the nth degree extremely accurately.

I'm sure the same thing goes for questions like alert tones, display options, etc. As long as the extremely capable hardware is capable of doing something, the actual execution just comes down to software. Which for most RD functions that we're used to is trivial even for a novice developer.
 

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We don't know anything about Theia's lidar sensitivity yet
Well, we do know some stuff from their videos, like about the condenser lens and that it’s hooked up to a clock so they can count PPS to identify guns just like lidar defense systems.
 

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Jon mentioned early on that he chose to include lidar detection onboard Theia, but that he's doing it begrudgingly; So I'm doubtful Theia will be any better/worse than a V1 on lidar detection. Hopefully I'm wrong and it's better.
 

Deacon

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I'm doubtful Theia will be any better/worse than a V1 on lidar detection.
Define “better” I guess. Sensitivity is one thing, but being able to detect (and even better name) lidar strikes without falsing to everything else would on its own make it way better in my opinion.
 

Buz

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Define “better” I guess. Sensitivity is one thing, but being able to detect (and even better name) lidar strikes without falsing to everything else would on its own make it way better in my opinion.
Assuming Theia's lidar detection/falsing will be identical to the V1, if it can also IDENTIFY the source, then IMO it will be way better.
 

G37X Jockey

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Assuming Theia's lidar detection/falsing will be identical to the V1, if it can also IDENTIFY the source, then IMO it will be way better.
Agreed. And if Theia can ID a laser source then logically it should be able to filter out non-police sources too. Something V1 can't do.
 

OBeerWANKenobi

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Doesn't seem like there's any reason that Theia shouldn't be able to identify the lidar source and avoid false alerts just like it can for radar.

Even though I'm in the camp that laser detection on RDs is only a ticket notifier and I usually turn it off after just a couple false alerts, if the detector can identify the gun, it actually has value.

Gun ID would allow users to know guns they face and both help them decide on jammers and help the rest of the community to know that guns are in what areas. It will give us significantly more data points than the minority of the minority that run jammers.
 

Heywood

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Doesn't seem like there's any reason that Theia shouldn't be able to identify the lidar source and avoid false alerts just like it can for radar.

Even though I'm in the camp that laser detection on RDs is only a ticket notifier and I usually turn it off after just a couple false alerts, if the detector can identify the gun, it actually has value.

Gun ID would allow users to know guns they face and both help them decide on jammers and help the rest of the community to know that guns are in what areas. It will give us significantly more data points than the minority of the minority that run jammers.
I’m not sure if identifying the Lidar signature is the focal point, but I do totally agree that if they did, it would be very helpful in the end users ability to decide what jammer system would work for them.
 

Godowsky17

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Gun ID would allow users to know guns they face and both help them decide on jammers and help the rest of the community to know that guns are in what areas. It will give us significantly more data points than the minority of the minority that run jammers.
Although considering Theia will cost close to what jammers cost, the ratio of Theia users to jammer users will be a lot larger than the ratio of detector users to jammer users generally.
 

Heywood

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Although considering Theia will cost close to what jammers cost, the ratio of Theia users to jammer users will be a lot larger than the ratio of detector users to jammer users generally.
Agree... even though we haven’t got an exact price of Theia, it come down to if the end user if:
1. The detector they have it good enough for the time being
2. If they see Lidar as such a great threat in their location to justify jammers.

Personally I agree with you that more people will lean towards the radar detection side just because it’s so much more wide spread, and doesn’t have the same limitations of having to be used stationary only like Lidar is.
Radar guns are also significantly cheaper to acquire as well for budget conscious jurisdictions.
 

Godowsky17

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Agree... even though we haven’t got an exact price of Theia, it come down to if the end user if:
1. The detector they have it good enough for the time being
2. If they see Lidar as such a great threat in their location to justify jammers.

Personally I agree with you that more people will lean towards the radar detection side just because it’s so much more wide spread, and doesn’t have the same limitations of having to be used stationary only like Lidar is.
Radar guns are also significantly cheaper to acquire as well for budget conscious jurisdictions.
That wasn't my point, but I agree with you on that as well. I can only think of a few places where a jammer would be a better investment than Theia if you were only going to buy one (Hawaii jumps to mind). I'm pretty sure the percentage of people who run a jammer and no detector is basically zero as I can't even think of one example.

What I was pointing out, though, is that there will be a much higher correlation between Theia users and jammer users than between all detector users and jammer users. Theia users will tend to be more serious hobbyists (the kind of person who picks up a $50 Whistler at the truck stop isn't the kind of person who is going to drop a grand on a detector or even know how it works) and more likely to run jammers as well. So I'm not sure how helpful the lidar recognition feature will be since a large proportion of users will be running jammers anyway.

Of course, some will not - some are budget-limited and live in areas where laser isn't a large threat - but I don't know that it's the feature I'd be most concerned about at least at the time of initial launch. Of course, it would be nice to have, but Radenso is really undertaking a lot here and we can't expect it to include everything.
 

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