Would this cause a false with Theia?

FoxStang

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I was perusing GovDeals and came across this used Kustom Signals speed sign trailer for sale, and one of the pictures was this interesting shot of its innards:
18846_1_4.jpg


I always thought these things had their own novel radar system built in, but not this one at least. Regular old Falcon handheld K band gun just stuck in there.

Naturally the first thing I thought of was the effect this would have with Theia. Is there enough difference between a gun operated this way versus in the hands of an officer that RAI can pick out the difference, or will this type of setup forever be classified as a true police gun thus causing a false alert?
 

Jon at Radenso

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It would probably register as a Falcon, because it is a Falcon. As for whether or not we could tell the difference, I am sure we can eventually with some DSP or other tricks, but I highly doubt that will be on launch since we are focusing more on actual false emitters such as BSMs, door openers, etc.
 

RadarSammich

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What about the radar drones like along i-40 and i-30 through Arkansas?
 

fishing66

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I was perusing GovDeals and came across this used Kustom Signals speed sign trailer for sale, and one of the pictures was this interesting shot of its innards:
View attachment 146491

I always thought these things had their own novel radar system built in, but not this one at least. Regular old Falcon handheld K band gun just stuck in there.

Naturally the first thing I thought of was the effect this would have with Theia. Is there enough difference between a gun operated this way versus in the hands of an officer that RAI can pick out the difference, or will this type of setup forever be classified as a true police gun thus causing a false alert?
That gun is still in use in Pennsylvania.
 

Deacon

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It would probably register as a Falcon, because it is a Falcon.
Right, I would be surprised if there were any way to tell the usage of an emitter, just whether it’s the legit emitter or not. Potentially similar to the military bases’ Stalker usage at the gates for their security systems.

The cool thing is I foresee modders being able to add aftermarket functionality like not only lockouts (frequency) but emitter-specific lockouts. Have a case like this with a legit emitter causing a nuisance alert? Lock out this specific emitter. If another legit emitter appears in the future, even if the frequency is nearly the same, no big deal, alert to the new/different emitter!
 

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Right, I would be surprised if there were any way to tell the usage of an emitter, just whether it’s the legit emitter or not. Potentially similar to the military bases’ Stalker usage at the gates for their security systems.

The cool thing is I foresee modders being able to add aftermarket functionality like not only lockouts (frequency) but emitter-specific lockouts. Have a case like this with a legit emitter causing a nuisance alert? Lock out this specific emitter. If another legit emitter appears in the future, even if the frequency is nearly the same, no big deal, alert to the new/different emitter!
One thing which we haven't talked about at all publicly really is the power of context. The way we are doing the system architecture is incredibly powerful because it's based around a continuously updating database of several thousand channels of spectrum, with each one tagged with tons and tons of metadata.

The detector (and whoever writes apps for it) will have access to metadata for each channel and bin with whatever context you ask for (time, location, statistical analysis on energy distribution, ambient light sensor value, altitude, how many times previously you have seen x emitter, etc, etc, etc, etc). The database is basically infinitely expandable and anyone can add whatever metadata requests they want.

So yes, something like what you talk about and much much more is possible.
 

Deacon

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The way we are doing the system architecture is incredibly powerful because it's based around a continuously updating database of several thousand channels of spectrum, with each one tagged with tons and tons of metadata.
I guess that’s one of the many upsides to the platform choices you’ve made, that processing power, computing architecture, and relatively large storage means you can do that in the first place. And if the database exclusively retains records of alerted emitters (leaving out all the ignored known falses), resource demands would be fairly low. Maybe it keeps track of falses, too, for analytics purposes? Either way it sounds awesome.
 

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I guess that’s one of the many upsides to the platform choices you’ve made, that processing power, computing architecture, and relatively large storage means you can do that in the first place. And if the database exclusively retains records of alerted emitters (leaving out all the ignored known falses), resource demands would be fairly low. Maybe it keeps track of falses, too, for analytics purposes? Either way it sounds awesome.
The database keeps track of statistics of energy across channels and bins - all energy, continuously. Then the "system coordinator" has the ability to say "hey, that looks interesting" and request whatever combination of statistics and metadata it deems fit. Having the database updated continuously on the microsecond level allows us to also do something very powerful - track trends of statistics as well.
 

benzr

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The database keeps track of statistics of energy across channels and bins - all energy, continuously. Then the "system coordinator" has the ability to say "hey, that looks interesting" and request whatever combination of statistics and metadata it deems fit. Having the database updated continuously on the microsecond level allows us to also do something very powerful - track trends of statistics as well.

WOW !!!


Veeeeeeeery Niiiiice 😏😏😎😎👍👍🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓

Benzr
 

Token

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Right, I would be surprised if there were any way to tell the usage of an emitter, just whether it’s the legit emitter or not. Potentially similar to the military bases’ Stalker usage at the gates for their security systems.

The cool thing is I foresee modders being able to add aftermarket functionality like not only lockouts (frequency) but emitter-specific lockouts. Have a case like this with a legit emitter causing a nuisance alert? Lock out this specific emitter. If another legit emitter appears in the future, even if the frequency is nearly the same, no big deal, alert to the new/different emitter!
Yeah, even if you can come up with a way to tell that an emitter is not moving that does not mean it is not a hand held gun on the side of the road. So I don't see it ever being possible to automatically tell such a source from a valid threat. If it uses a valid threat at its core then it is, indeed, a valid threat, just being used in a different set of hands.

However, fingerprinting, so that you could lock out a specific emitter even among a family of the same emitter, that would be interesting. See it once, manually identify as a non-threat, and then the system recognize that specific emitter any time after that when it is seen, that would be great. That assumes you can see each signal with enough detail to recognize an individual unit, not just a "range" of features that identify the threat model. That would require you to store the details of each threat, or at least as many as you have memories to ignore.

T!
 

SwankPeRFection

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One thing which we haven't talked about at all publicly really is the power of context. The way we are doing the system architecture is incredibly powerful because it's based around a continuously updating database of several thousand channels of spectrum, with each one tagged with tons and tons of metadata.

The detector (and whoever writes apps for it) will have access to metadata for each channel and bin with whatever context you ask for (time, location, statistical analysis on energy distribution, ambient light sensor value, altitude, how many times previously you have seen x emitter, etc, etc, etc, etc). The database is basically infinitely expandable and anyone can add whatever metadata requests they want.

So yes, something like what you talk about and much much more is possible.
And you’re storing this onboard each detector for each respective user?... i.e. everyone’s database will be different or will you be farming this from each detector to build one universal database to user as a base map and let each detector append data to it as needed? I mean, there only so much storage onboard, so how many months or years of data can be stored in non-volatile memory before it has to be overwritten? Granted, the logic would also be written so it doesn’t store duplicate data so that’ll save some space to a degree, but still... or am I misunderstanding what you said?
 

Unidenjunky

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I was perusing GovDeals and came across this used Kustom Signals speed sign trailer for sale, and one of the pictures was this interesting shot of its innards:
View attachment 146491

I always thought these things had their own novel radar system built in, but not this one at least. Regular old Falcon handheld K band gun just stuck in there.

Naturally the first thing I thought of was the effect this would have with Theia. Is there enough difference between a gun operated this way versus in the hands of an officer that RAI can pick out the difference, or will this type of setup forever be classified as a true police gun thus causing a false alert?
Looks like I know where to get a free radar gun 😉
 

RadarSammich

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Radenso Live?
 

FoxStang

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Radenso Live?
I think it would be a good topic, maybe help alleviate some of the misunderstanding from people who thought Theia wouldn't false to ANYTHING. Radenso has only advertised "Zero BSM Falses", but sometimes people hear what they want to hear.
 

G37X Jockey

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I think it would be a good topic, maybe help alleviate some of the misunderstanding from people who thought Theia wouldn't false to ANYTHING. Radenso has only advertised "Zero BSM Falses", but sometimes people hear what they want to hear.
I guess Theia users will have to redefine the term, false alert, to mean non LEO use of a legitimate emitter.
 

goblin

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Would the radar inside that trailer have some specific mode/option for "I'm in trailer mode", that could be identified ?

I don't know what the longevity of the thing is but - wouldn't a full blown radar in 24/7 CO mode get unreasonable wear and tear or something ?
 

Godowsky17

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Would the radar inside that trailer have some specific mode/option for "I'm in trailer mode", that could be identified ?

I don't know what the longevity of the thing is but - wouldn't a full blown radar in 24/7 CO mode get unreasonable wear and tear or something ?
I seriously doubt it. There are many LEOs who leave their dash mounted radars transmitting 24/7, or at least for the duration of a shift. They even leave them on when they park.
 

G37X Jockey

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I seriously doubt it. There are many LEOs who leave their dash mounted radars transmitting 24/7, or at least for the duration of a shift. They even leave them on when they park.
Some even leave their radar running while shooting laser, which I love.
 

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