I'm sure this is a silly question but here I go.

kwthom

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It’s not so much about transmitting a signal but transmitting one for the purpose of interfering with another device... if you are transmitting for the purpose of communication and it happens to interfere then the FCC is likely to turn a blind eye...
No, truly, it *is* about unlicensed transmission. The *bonus* charge the feds will ding you on is intentional interference of a licensed user. :20bux:

Exactly zero licenses have been issued - for the purpose of interfering with police radar operations.

Provided you have a FCC license and are licensed on the frequency you are transmitting on.
There's that legal twist once again. ;)

I don't believe our OP was intending to qualify for a FCC ticket to operate his (alleged) device.
 

Boozehound

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Looks like this guy had a pretty powerful setup that was probably used in a constant on operation when the vehicle was in use and put out a big footprint that wasn't that hard to find.

And back to my "out of the box" thinking as such a low power radar jamming device would probably cost 100's of thousands of dollars to develop let alone fining the talent that can create such a thing. Anyway, bottom line is that it can be done.
Yeah, that guy probably didn't consider the collateral damage of using a device that likely transmits harmonics way out of band, slams anyone nearby on a variety of different networks, and will get you lots of attention. I promise if you scramble the type of crew to find this sort of device it'll be expensive when they catch you.

Those types of devices are cheaply bought out of China, relatively speaking. Under a grand generally. But you're talking about frequencies an order of magnitude below K band. Power and stability get expensive quickly as frequency increases.

Then you have the large size of Ka. In a way, a good solid K jammer would be preferable to deal with the new and especially low power K units. Another problem with using a Gunn diode is that for stability, you need to have it transmitting constantly and adjust your frequency quickly upon detection. But now your jammer will set off your RD. Your jammer must be a detector and jammer. So now your problem is that while you can detect, your Gunn diode is screaming into your receiver and the police radar is faint by comparison. In the end your range will be short. Maybe a SDR detector like Theia could be the detector front end for such a device but I doubt Jon would pursue that. That's elevating it to electronic warfare and even though you could sell a jammer add-on from offshore servers and logistics, it will paint a big target on you. I expect life would be made difficult for anyone who marketed this. And again, your talking >$10,000 to do it reliably and I'm being optimistic.
 

Exadata

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Yeah, that guy probably didn't consider the collateral damage of using a device that likely transmits harmonics way out of band, slams anyone nearby on a variety of different networks, and will get you lots of attention. I promise if you scramble the type of crew to find this sort of device it'll be expensive when they catch you.

Those types of devices are cheaply bought out of China, relatively speaking. Under a grand generally. But you're talking about frequencies an order of magnitude below K band. Power and stability get expensive quickly as frequency increases.

Then you have the large size of Ka. In a way, a good solid K jammer would be preferable to deal with the new and especially low power K units. Another problem with using a Gunn diode is that for stability, you need to have it transmitting constantly and adjust your frequency quickly upon detection. But now your jammer will set off your RD. Your jammer must be a detector and jammer. So now your problem is that while you can detect, your Gunn diode is screaming into your receiver and the police radar is faint by comparison. In the end your range will be short. Maybe a SDR detector like Theia could be the detector front end for such a device but I doubt Jon would pursue that. That's elevating it to electronic warfare and even though you could sell a jammer add-on from offshore servers and logistics, it will paint a big target on you. I expect life would be made difficult for anyone who marketed this. And again, your talking >$10,000 to do it reliably and I'm being optimistic.
Wow, much more info than I expected and love it. Perhaps, SDR could be the solution to being able to detect leo radar and ignore the jammer when it transmits.

My mind is in overdrive thinking about this and can't type fast enough to get all the thoughts and ideas documented now.
 

CobawLT2010

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No, truly, it *is* about unlicensed transmission. The *bonus* charge the feds will ding you on is intentional interference of a licensed user. :20bux:

Exactly zero licenses have been issued - for the purpose of interfering with police radar operations.



There's that legal twist once again. ;)

I don't believe our OP was intending to qualify for a FCC ticket to operate his (alleged) device.
What?

I’m a licensed operator.

The Feds are not going fine me for transmitting in the KA spectrum. They will fine me if I am intentionally trying to Jam or cause interference with another device... even with my license.

The law is about jamming or causing interference, not transmitting...

That is another fine.



We are arguing semantics here...

I have transmitted for the purpose of communications (HAM) and have received RFI warnings on my radar equipment. Was I trying to jam my own equipment? No. Will the FCC come after me... No... again that was because I was legitimately trying to use my HAM for communication.
 
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Jon at Radenso

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Maybe a SDR detector like Theia could be the detector front end for such a device but I doubt Jon would pursue that. That's elevating it to electronic warfare and even though you could sell a jammer add-on from offshore servers and logistics, it will paint a big target on you.
Any SDR with a radar front end has the potential to jam radar if someone writes software for it to do so, just like any computer can be used to run a botnet or for other illegal purposes. A SDR is just a computer hooked up to a receiver. Obviously we will not touch that with a 10 foot pole from a corporate standpoint.
 

Transporter

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Lots of Radar Detectors and Laser Jammers out there so why not a Radar Jammer?

They are out there (ones that actually work and are not snake oil smoke and mirrors and ones that actually work are Uber expensive), BUT it is a little hard to advertise an item that is illegal to use in all 50 States under Federal Law. You can own a Radar Jammer in some States, but it is illegal to turn it on and use it in all 50 States because it violates multiple Federal Laws. Additionally unlike Laser Jammers where some States only issue an equipment "Fix It" ticket for illegally using an LJ, if the State gets the Feds involved after being caught with an operational Radar Jammer, one could get actual jail time.

Lastly, there are no Silly or Stupid Questions, just one not knowing the answer at the current time so one had to ask (although there are sometimes stupid Answers).

.
 

Boozehound

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Like most other criminal offenses, the state must prove intent. Getting caught seems like a low probability for a smart operator- sort of like operating a laser jammer. How many LEOs would one have to interview to find a single one who thought he'd ever had his radar jammed. This isn't something they see. Now if you're doing it in a Ferrari or Lambo you might get a little extra attention. But in a common sedan or SUV I doubt it.

@Transporter, please PM me with anything that's available that you think might be viable. I'd like see it. This would be a losing proposition for a domestic company. I remember a complicated process for the one from the late '80s where you had to buy the kit from one company and the transmitters from another. Then you had to build the kit. Wish I could remember the name. It would tear up the doppler audio pretty well yet the old analog Decatur would often read an accurate speed in spite of the noise.
 

LouG

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Let's say you do have a military grade low power radar jammer and it only activates when a threat is detected and turned off after the threat is gone ASAP. How would an average Joe LEO even know? Who enforces or could detect such a thing (keeping clear of any military base)?
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Has anyone in recent history ~10-20 years ever been charged/convicted from using a radar jammer?
That's my thinking. The time span of jamming is so short, and trying to ID one vehicle among others is practically impossible.
But, I don't know if an RF jammer could operate on the basis that it only transmits when it detects a signal. If it detects radar before a cop sees you, it would be fine. But a close range burst of I/O might be a different story.
 

Transporter

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That's my thinking. The time span of jamming is so short, and trying to ID one vehicle among others is practically impossible.
But, I don't know if an RF jammer could operate on the basis that it only transmits when it detects a signal. If it detects radar before a cop sees you, it would be fine. But a close range burst of I/O might be a different story.

You answered your own questions:

When is a Jammer needed most? One on One Ka I/O encounter.

When is the Jammer operator most venerable to detection? When using a Jammer during a One on One Ka I/O encounter.

When one is in regular traffic does one really need to be running a jammer? Not really with a decent RD and other counter measure.

What I hate is when one has their Jammer set to send a phase shift that represents 60 MPH and one forgot to turn it off while in town and gets hit by Police Radar in a 25 MPH school zone. One just can't tell the judge I was really not in a hurry and only doing 30 MPH, it was my Jammer the Police Radar picked up!

By the way, correct Jammers on transmit when ones RD goes off as they are not constantly transmitting.

.
 

Exadata

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Probably the best way to go about creating a radar jammer would be a DIY project with online documentation (how to and parts needed), software, individual manufacturing of any specialty parts, ordering said parts online from more than just one seller, and assembling it yourself. Of course all the parts, software, and documentation would be hosted out of the USA just to be extra safe.

....just brainstorming
 

kwthom

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We are arguing semantics here...
Agreed.

We've also stated the same idea. Bad things happen to unlicensed individuals (again, re-read post #1 - no license is inferred that I can detect) that transmit - unlawfully - and interfere with licensed operations.
 

9C1Driver

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Probably the best way to go about creating a radar jammer would be a DIY project with online documentation (how to and parts needed), software, individual manufacturing of any specialty parts, ordering said parts online from more than just one seller, and assembling it yourself. Of course all the parts, software, and documentation would be hosted out of the USA just to be extra safe.

....just brainstorming
Fun Star Trek concept to think about, in reality it's a bad idea that you should probably give up on. Just saying.
 

omgboost

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Just thinking outside the box here. I'm sure they would go after any manufacturer that would make such a product first but, if someone were to independently make their own covert/stealth install hidden radar jammer how would anyone figure it out (of course staying far away or not using it near any military base)?
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Let's say they did get your position. You're in a moving car and the radar jammer would only be intermittently used at very short intervals. I highly doubt there would be any chance of getting caught.
They went after a vendor for references to radar jamming
 

STS-134

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This is also not like a ticket for having laser jammers. It's like a $50,000 fine and 5 years in jail if you're caught with a radar jammer.
In practice though, it would take a LONG time before you got caught, if you had such a device that could "fool" a RADAR gun. Note that the goal wouldn't be to get it to return no speed (which is virtually impossible), but the WRONG speed (unlike a LIDAR jammer). But the technological challenges of doing this would be extremely hard. The actual RADAR return from the car is STILL THERE, and RADAR guns usually return the fastest sensed speed. You can send back a signal that tells the gun that you're traveling more slowly than you really are, but that's also what the car in the lane next to you might be doing, and the gun doesn't have trouble picking YOUR signal out of the pack, because your reflected signal is still there. You could send back a signal telling the gun that you're doing 180 mph, I suppose.

But how are you going to even do that? You'd have to sense the incoming frequency, know your actual speed, and calculate the desired return signal frequency (adjusted for your actual speed), tune an oscillator to exactly that frequency, and then transmit. And meanwhile, your car has already started reflecting the RADAR signal back to the gun...
 

Boozehound

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In practice though, it would take a LONG time before you got caught, if you had such a device that could "fool" a RADAR gun. Note that the goal wouldn't be to get it to return no speed (which is virtually impossible), but the WRONG speed (unlike a LIDAR jammer). But the technological challenges of doing this would be extremely hard. The actual RADAR return from the car is STILL THERE, and RADAR guns usually return the fastest sensed speed. You can send back a signal that tells the gun that you're traveling more slowly than you really are, but that's also what the car in the lane next to you might be doing, and the gun doesn't have trouble picking YOUR signal out of the pack, because your reflected signal is still there. You could send back a signal telling the gun that you're doing 180 mph, I suppose.

But how are you going to even do that? You'd have to sense the incoming frequency, know your actual speed, and calculate the desired return signal frequency (adjusted for your actual speed), tune an oscillator to exactly that frequency, and then transmit. And meanwhile, your car has already started reflecting the RADAR signal back to the gun...

It is certainly possible if not feasible to do it, at a price. Now if such a device could be built and sold for $500 that would create a whole new storm. Large numbers of people using it would lead to a large response from the other side. It's a fun topic for discussion but I'd never suggest ever building one, especially for sale.

Most of the parts would be common enough. Except for the microwave sources. Or if you wanted to build something truly powerful and exotic. You'd need a boatload of cash and one hell of a cover story because buying those parts would attract attention.

Has anyone considered the shotgun approach? Build a small EMP device. Then you can blast every radar unit you see whether it's transmitting or not. A tour of Leavenworth is prerequisite. Good to make sure you like the decor.
 

STS-134

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It is certainly possible if not feasible to do it, at a price. Now if such a device could be built and sold for $500 that would create a whole new storm. Large numbers of people using it would lead to a large response from the other side. It's a fun topic for discussion but I'd never suggest ever building one, especially for sale.

Most of the parts would be common enough. Except for the microwave sources. Or if you wanted to build something truly powerful and exotic. You'd need a boatload of cash and one hell of a cover story because buying those parts would attract attention.
But without getting rid of the RADAR cross section of your own vehicle, what's the point in doing this? You'd basically need to be driving the equivalent of the B-2 bomber to make the thing work properly.

Has anyone considered the shotgun approach? Build a small EMP device. Then you can blast every radar unit you see whether it's transmitting or not. A tour of Leavenworth is prerequisite. Good to make sure you like the decor.
I'm sure you could simply destroy RADAR and LIDAR gun receivers by transmitting with a high enough power, although destroying receivers is even worse than JTG as things go for not letting officers know they're being jammed. Or as you say, transmit an EMP that simply destroys all electronics. The guy in the car ahead of you is probably gonna be pretty pissed that his car stops working though.
 

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@STS-134, working X & K units did work back in the day. There's a little info right here on RDF about them as well. (Elevated I believe)
 

STS-134

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@STS-134, working X & K units did work back in the day. There's a little info right here on RDF about them as well. (Elevated I believe)
Yeah but I'm not sure how well those low-tech units ever worked. In order to do it properly, the device needs to know your vehicle's speed, tune quickly to the right frequency, and always be able to hit a frequency within probably 0.5 kHz or it's not going to make the gun display the right speed. AND you have to get your car's RADAR cross section down far enough that the gun can't pick up the real reflection, otherwise it will just ignore the jammer.
 

Deadhead1971

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Don’t the stealth bombers F117s absorb the radar signals, not jam them?
 

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