V1 Gen 2 vs. R7 - Comparison of Vortex Red Barn Results vs. TXCTG Waco Pioneer Results

Brainstorm69

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INTRO

Since I was kinda bored this afternoon, I decided to do a little comparison between @Vortex's testing results vs TXCTG testing results focusing on just the V1 Gen 2 vs. R7. Now of course, these are different courses, but what I decided to do was do a comparison based on percentage of the longest detection. For Vortex's results, I just used his averages for each band. For TXCTG results, I averaged the results of @Jag42's and my V1 Gen2s and R7s. So without further ado, here are the results (presented in the order Vortex has them in his testing).

COMPARISONS

KA 33.8 Results Comparison 03-29-2020.jpg


Ka 33.8 Commentary
  • Despite differing course length and conditions, the results turned out to be very similar.
  • The fact that Vortex had the R7 in K Narrow (scanning an extra ~50 MHz) vs. 2/5/8 for TXCTG didn't seem to make a difference here.

KA 34.7 Results Comparison 03-29-2020.jpg


Ka 34.7 Commentary
  • Here, Vortex's testing vs. TXCTG did differ a little, although really not a lot
  • Don't know if Vortex has a V1 Gen 2 that is slightly "hotter" on 34.7 than Jag42's or mine; or whether Vortex has a R7 that's a little less hot than mine and Jag42's on 34.7.
  • Could the fact that Vortex had the R7 in K Narrow (scanning an extra ~50 MHz) vs. 2/5/8 for TXCTG have made a difference on 34.7 when it didn't seem to on 33.8 or 35.5? I doubt it.

KA 35.5 Results Comparison 03-29-2020.jpg


Ka 35.5 Commentary
  • Here again, the results were remarkably similar despite the different course conditions and length.
  • The fact that Vortex had the R7 in K Narrow (scanning an extra ~50 MHz) vs. 2/5/8 for TXCTG didn't seem to make a discernible difference here.

K-Band Results Comparison (rev) 03-29-2020.jpg


K-Band Commentary
  • There was only one set of settings between Vortex's K-Band and TXCTG's that were the same. That's the V1 Gen 2 in A mode and the R7 K=30%.
  • Here, the most noticable thing to me was the difference between standard-powered K results in Vortex's test and low-powered K in TXCTG's test.
    • In the standard powered K test on a shorter course, the R7 K=30% was within 5% of the V1 Gen 2 in A mode.
    • In the low powered K test on a longer course, the R7 K=30% slipped considerably to 23% behind the V1 Gen 2 in A mode. In this case, I didn't include Jag42's result in the R7's average because his R7 had TSF off (and did better than mine). The R7 with KF on and TSF on seems to be taking a bigger hit from the low-powered K than the V1G2 in A mode with KV on, at least on a longer course. So one would definitely need to bump the R7 up a notch (or maybe 2) if you face low-powered K and want an equivalent amount of sensitivity/range from the R7 as you get from the V1 Gen 2 in A mode. And, of course, as you bump the R7's sensitivty up, the BSMs are going to get worse.

Conclusion

Seems like the V1 Gen 2 and R7 did pretty comparably between the two tests on Ka (albeit 34.7 was a little different). K-Band was harder to compare between the two tests, as there are so many different settings applied, especially on R7 in Vortex's test. But it was interesting to me that if you run the V1 Gen 2 in A mode with KV on, it seems to take less of a hit than the R7 if you are facing low-powered K, at least with the R7's K-band sensitivity turned down and all filters on on a longer course. But, this is just one comparison between two tests. I'm still looking forward to other members tests of these two contenders for your arrow dollars.
 
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87GN

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Ooh great work putting this together! It gives me more confidence in our results, especially on Ka band. It also makes me more curious about the effects of different K band guns. :)

I think it’s a big deal for test results to be reproducible. There’s always gonna be slight differences, but anyone who goes out and tests should see similar results assuming nothing wonky is happening. :)
 

Brainstorm69

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Ooh great work putting this together! It gives me more confidence in our results, especially on Ka band. It also makes me more curious about the effects of different K band guns. :)

I think it’s a big deal for test results to be reproducible. There’s always gonna be slight differences, but anyone who goes out and tests should see similar results assuming nothing wonky is happening. :)
And yeah, I was surprised that the Ka results were that close on a percentage basis. I knew they were pretty similar, but just in a gross sense like rank order placement.

Yeah, the K-band is a little harder to sift through with all the settings variations. I noticed a few other things, but they were kind of out of scope for this post. Maybe another time. But the difference between low-powered K and standard powered K definitely deserves more testing.
 
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GotWake

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Man, the R7 and the V1G2 are monsters! Honestly, I think the choice comes down to whether you want the advantages of running an app with the V1 or you just like it simple with the R7.
 

RadarSammich

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My r7 picks up city cops from the otherside of town sometimes and also the sheriffs station, it can get annoying because they run 35.5 c/o. So i run the max360c in town now, but on the highway, its r7 wide open and 100%
 

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Great job on the write up @Brainstorm69 ! Seems it's pretty much a tossup between the two. Those that want apps and those who don't, both have great choices. Having excellent testers, using various techniques and scenarios really show what we can expect from the top tier detectors.

I appreciate all of y'alls work and dedication.
 

Kennyc56

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Great testing and writeup as usual @Brainstorm69 ! @VariableWave and I came up with very similar results as Vortex, although the V1G2 won by a greater amount against both 34.7 and 35.5. The V1G2 [@variablewave's] also came up with several rear detections that I still can't believe or come up with an excuse for! It did the same with the front antenna as well on 2 occasions spanking everything we had from the front as well by 1/2 mile! My V1G2 has already beaten my R1 by seven seconds on an over the hill behind a bridge off axis alert as well both run together and apart! The only thing we didn't attempt to test yet is K band or 33.8, but in my opinion my V1G2 is better at filtering and range than my R1 's on K band set up on 1.50 with TFS, K filter, and K block at 70%. BTW, I always run in A mode with K verifier on.
 
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Brainstorm69

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I just corrected an error in the K-band comparison table. I forgot to change the formula for range and delta to be based on meters instead of feet for the TXCTG results. It doesn't affect the percentage, which is still at 77% for the R7 in Adv, K=30% (although somehow in my write up I said the difference was 22% instead of 23%). Fixed that, too.
Post automatically merged:

Great testing and writeup as usual @Brainstorm69 ! @VariableWave and I came up with very similar results as Vortex, although the V1G2 won by a greater amount against both 34.7 and 35.5. The V1G2 [@variablewave's] also came up with several rear detections that I still can't believe or come up with an excuse for! It did the same with the front antenna as well on 2 occasions spanking everything we had from the front as well by 1/2 a mile! My V1G2 has already beat my R1 by seven seconds on a over the hill behind a bridge off axis alert as well both run together and apart! The only thing we didn't attempt to test yet is K band or 33.8, but in my opinion my V1G2 is better at filtering and range than my R1 's set up on 1.50 with TFS, K filter, and K block at 70%. BTW, I always run in A mode with K verifier on.
@Kennyc56 and @VariableWave - looking forward to your results!
 
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Kennyc56

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I just corrected an error in the K-band comparison table. I forgot to change the formula for range and delta to be based on meters instead of feet for the TXCTG results. It didn't affect the percentage, which is still at 77% for the R7 in Adv, K=30% (although somehow in my write up I said the difference was 22% instead of 23%). Fixed that, too.
Post automatically merged:



@Kennyc56 and @VariableWave - looking forward to your results!
We are going to start all over with a brand new test. We had so many problems the first day with the craziest traffic and so many big trucks that we didn't feel good about our results. The second day we tried a new site, but had a harder time getting separation between the detectors. @VariableWave 's V1G2 still came out on top of every test however, some of them by the skin of it's teeth! Funny thing is, even with all of our troubles all of our results were very similar to you guys!
 

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My r7 picks up city cops from the otherside of town sometimes and also the sheriffs station, it can get annoying because they run 35.5 c/o. So i run the max360c in town now, but on the highway, its r7 wide open and 100%
I've noticed this in the city as well, how far is too far?
I've never run the R7 at anything other than 100%.
Perhaps we are avoiding the ability to reduce Ka sensitivity because of our fear of LEOs and knowing Ka is almost always legit threat.
Why do we not run Ka at 80, 70, 60% in Advanced mode to reduce that problem?
1 reason is no one tests this so we can find a comfortable setting.
I don't recall if the R7 allows a reduction in Ka in City mode or only Advanced.
But it would be nice to be able to quick change it without entering menu when you enter more congested areas.
 
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Brainstorm69

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I've noticed this in the city as well, how far is too far?
I've never run the R7 at anything other than 100%.
Perhaps we are avoiding the ability to reduce Ka sensitivity because of our fear of LEOs and knowing Ka is almost always legit threat.
Why do we not run Ka at 80, 70, 60% in Advanced mode to reduce that problem?
1 reason is no one tests this so we can find a comfortable setting.
I don't recall if the R7 allows a reduction in Ka in City mode or only Advanced.
But it would be nice to be able to quick change it without entering menu when you enter more congested areas.
Talk to @Deacon. I'm pretty sure he does that when he's in the city.
 

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This is great, thanks for this.

We need more testing for sure, specifically with real life settings . ( Settings we would all normally run, and a control run with everything disabled/enabled for max sensitivity).
This way we can see what it could do at max, followed by what we see when we run actual settings most of us run (little L , K ver on, and others), or R7 (advanced, 100% , seg'd 2/4/5/6/8 at most, and others)
 

Deacon

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Why do we not run Ka at 80, 70, 60% in Advanced mode to reduce that problem?
Talk to @Deacon. I'm pretty sure he does that when he's in the city.
Even my pitiful old swept V1G1 will provide Ka “falses” in the form of unconfirmed threats, signals undoubtedly from a real Stalker but off unseen on some surface road vaguely in the area, especially when on elevated highways. When I’m on the city, I run the R3 in Advanced Mode with Ka at 60% and K at 30% and have never been left wanting for range. And yes, my own personal PSL of whatever feels reasonable at the time includes paying attention to legit threats on “city” highways.

I do wish Uniden didn’t kneecap Advanced Mode by forcing a minimum 30% as I would be happy to drop K to 20% or 15% even. Lots of K pollution, but while rare there’s just enough chance of an oddball K threat that I can’t disable it entirely.

For everyone who loves that the R3/R7 has rudimentary GPS built in (at who knows what cost when Escort’s lawyers get done with them), the primitive lockouts leave me wanting since they don’t/can’t adjust to sensitivity levels, and it has no ability to switch modes based on location, such as moving from Highway to Advanced when crossing into a certain area. I guess the hope is that Theia will eliminate most of that from the question if it can truly avoid falses altogether, and maybe even at some point support geofencing for increasing or reducing sensitivity.
 

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