Heywood's March 28 2020 MRCD Testing.

Heywood

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Finally got a chance to get some head to head MRCD testing done.

The contestants today.
Uniden R3 - FW 1.53
Advanced /K 100% /K Narrow / MRCD On /Ka priority / All Threats On / TSF Off

Escort Redline EX - FW 1.15
AutoNoX / TSF Off/ No Escort Live connection. Autolearn Off

Escort Max 360C - FW 1.11
Same as R-EX

Radenso Pro-M - FW US19
A/C Mode /TSRej Off / MRCD Narrow / MR Filter Off

Radenso RC-M
Same as Pro-M

The course was on a normal street with light traffic. Its a usual spot where they like to hang out. It was overcast with a temperature of -9C. (15.8 F). There is a K band speed sign on the opposite side of the street. It was locked out of all the detectors and was broadcasting a frequency of 24.159. I believe I mentioned it in some of the videos. This is a common tactic used here. A majority of the MRCD traps are set up this way. Sometimes right underneath the signs. No matter, all the detectors had to deal with it.

I've included videos of all the runs for each detector. All the information such as time, speed and GPS coordinates are on the videos for those that want to check.

The R3.
It definitely took a step backward with todays MRCD testing. I was seeing some concerning things this whole week. Facing the antenna twice was showing some shorter than expected MRCD detections.

The R3 was showing a frequency of 24.094

I made 3 passes on the enforcement side. 2 of the 3 passes did not detect the MRCD trap. The 1 pass gave me an alert of 84.9 feet past the trap in the kill zone.

Run 1 - No Alert
Run 2 - 84.9 into the Kill Zone
Run 3 - No Alert

Escort R-EX
Earlier testing showed the R-EX to be pretty good at detecting MRCD. Today was a different showing. I had a hard time seeing what it was doing so I made 4 runs against the trap. It was showing me a frequency of 24.104.

I really have no explanation why the R-EX did this bad? I'd expect that the R3 might have some issues due to the 24.0050 floor, but I didn't expect the R-EX to totally miss this trap.

Run 1 - 372.4 feet in the kill zone
Run 2 - 71.9 feet in the kill zone. ( It actually showed K first then switched to MRCD)
Run 3 - No alert
Run 4 - No alert



Escort Max 360C

Last time I tested it, it failed badly. Today, it surprised me. 3 runs. No missed alerts. No Kill zone problems. It's like the R-EX and 360C switched places. One very surprising run.

Run 1 - 583 feet
Run 2 - 257.8 feet ( Freq 24.095
Run 3 - 147 feet (Freq 24.105)

Radenso Pro-M

It did it's usual stuff. The first 2 runs were underwhelming. Then it pulled off a pretty unbelievable hero detection. It was out of character from what I had been seeing up to that point against that particular MRCD rig, so I gave it 4 runs to see how much of a 1 off it was.

Run 1 - 273.2 feet
Run 2 - 399.1 feet
Run 3 - 1219.7 feet ( Longest of the day)
Run 4 - 810.1 feet

Radenso RC-M

My daily driver. The antenna is down lower and behind my grill, but it's larger physically and traffic was very light. This 1 did have 1 hero run, so it got an extra run because of that. The 3 other runs were much more consistent.

If you watch the 3rd run, I'm holding up the OBD II port FMT ( Fast Measurement Tool) so you can see how it works and I can get near exact measurements.

Run 1 - 429.8 feet
Run 2 - 475.1 feet
Run 3 - 901.2 feet
Run 4 - 463.8 feet

Remember.. this is just one test and should be taken along with others to get a better picture of how they react. MRCD is tricky and there's all sorts of factors that can effect the detection range. Reflection from cars traveling or even cars parked in front of it. Temperature on the outside mounted antenna... they all factor into the results.
 

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asleeper

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Agreed, surprising that the RL EX did poorly as against the MRCD. It had usually been one of the more consistent RD's against it. @Heywood, were you running any different settings than in your previous tests? As for the max360, I suppose Escort is (maybe) making some progress in MRCD detection. As for Radenso, that's one area where they shine. Detecting MRCD is half the battle, detecting it outside the kill zone is the other half.

As always, thanks for taking the time to do some testing.
 

Vortex

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Thanks for the test!

Surprising to see a poor showing by the R3, as well as the 360c and Redline EX switching places like that.

Nice detections and consistency by the Radensos. Does running TS Rej off help with MRCD detection?
 

DC Fluid

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@Heywood
Do you think these MRCD units have some sort of variable programing or frequency modulation that manufacturers or users can change things up to help defeat countermeasures?
Would it explain how there is so much variation with the same detectors one test to the next?
Or just different MRCD units are so much different from each other?
Be interesting to see if the R7 can be as consistent as the Radensos, and not unpredictable like the R3.
 

asleeper

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Great testing and summary. Good to see the Max did better. Surprised the R3 did worse. RC-M continues to shine...
Yeah, I'm surprised too, more with the RL EX though. That had generally one of the the better RD's out there for MRCD detection. As for Radenso, the tests speak for themselves and this one is no different.
 

Heywood

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Agreed, surprising that the RL EX did poorly as against the MRCD. It had usually been one of the more consistent RD's against it. @Heywood, were you running any different settings than in your previous tests? As for the max360, I suppose Escort is (maybe) making some progress in MRCD detection. As for Radenso, that's one area where they shine. Detecting MRCD is half the battle, detecting it outside the kill zone is the other half.

As always, thanks for taking the time to do some testing.
Thanks for that. I always try to keep them as evenly as I can through out the testing. I double checked the settings for each before I ran the test. Since none of the detectors, outside the RC-M are my DD, the setting haven't been changed from the previous tests.

I still check just in case. lol.

The FW's are the same for the Escorts and Radenso's. Current FW's.

In fact, that Toyota Tundra looks to be the exact same truck, near the same spot I tested the 360C against when it totally screwed the pooch. It was light blue then, but now they all seem to have made it into the shop for the new mandated high vis vinyl wrap.

Thanks for the test!

Surprising to see a poor showing by the R3, as well as the 360c and Redline EX switching places like that.

Nice detections and consistency by the Radensos. Does running TS Rej off help with MRCD detection?
I really haven't tested that yet. Since they all use their filtering differently, I just test without it just incase. Same with the MR Filters on the Radenso's. The Escort's and Uniden's don't have them, so I don't use them on the Radenso's for testing. For normal operation, the TSRej and MR Filters are both on low. Just my personal preference.
Post automatically merged:

@Heywood
Do you think these MRCD units have some sort of variable programing or frequency modulation that manufacturers or users can change things up to help defeat countermeasures?
Would it explain how there is so much variation with the same detectors one test to the next?
Or just different MRCD units are so much different from each other?
Be interesting to see if the R7 can be as consistent as the Radensos, and not unpredictable like the R3.
No, Nothing that the operator sitting in the truck would be able to change. We do have some MRCD trucks that do dip under the floor. Also as it gets colder, the antenna that's outside all the time goes lower and lower with the temperatures.

The operators of these trucks are just regular people that make $20.00/hr. No other special requirements needed except a clean drivers license in the last 3 years. You can see in one of the RC-M video's, the lady operator was out having a smoke. She didn't look like the type that I would allow to start tuning knobs.

After what I seen of the R3 earlier, I really did expect to see a drastic change. I had that baseline from the Febuary 2019 testing. The problem there was it was mistaking the identification. It could see it almost at the same distance of the others... just as K band. Well the R3 isn't making that mistake anymore, which I guess could be a good thing, but ...well you see the results from my earlier videos facing the antenna.

I'm still perplexed how the Redline could fall on it's face here, and how the 360C changed... from what I believe was the same rig as last time where it did so poorly.

Last time I tested the 360C, that was 6 consecutive runs.
 
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CarefulDriver

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Thanks for all the effort! Yeah Radenso surely knows how to defeat modulated threats. Can't figure out why Uniden wrote that "enchanced MRCD detection range" in changelog. Perhaps they meant "compared to 1.50"? I will stick to 1.46, I'm running K band off, wonder if that has any effect on MRCD range?
 

milkman

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Thanks for testing and sharing with us!
 

Heywood

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Thanks for all the effort! Yeah Radenso surely knows how to defeat modulated threats. Can't figure out why Uniden wrote that "enchanced MRCD detection range" in changelog. Perhaps they meant "compared to 1.50"? I will stick to 1.46, I'm running K band off, wonder if that has any effect on MRCD range?
Take a look at my February 11 2019 testing.
Sure it was 1.48, but that was one of the scenarios I tested. K band off and on. Also TSF off and on.
I tested it on both sides. Enforcement and non-enforcement. It could give you a idea where it could be.

Then again 1.53 seems to be a dramatic change. I wonder if their idea of “Enhanced” means that it no longer misidentifies MRCD as “K Band” now.

Remember, even on the earlier FW’s, the misidentification wasn’t a problem 100% of the time. It was a 70/30 split. It wasn’t on the same level as it’s competitors, but it was better than what 1.53 is showing.
 

SilenceDogoodNinja

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I have only ever had 129.x in my R7 but only went against 1 photo truck in Calgary on Stoney Trail and it didn't alert until just before truck. After watching this I can’t wait to test the Escort Max 360C out and see how she fairs! Thanks @Heywood
 

Heywood

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Man I'm glad Texas has doesn't have that crap. Speed cameras and RLC are outlawed here. Sorry y'all have to deal with MRCD/MRCT!
I‘m glad that you don’t either.... but like anything, never say never.

The lure of easy money and as the tech gets better and more reliable... you just never know.

Remember when you guys were able to use Jammers?

Enjoy not having to deal with it for as long as you can
Post automatically merged:

I have only ever had 129.x in my R7 but only went against 1 photo truck in Calgary on Stoney Trail and it didn't alert until just before truck. After watching this I can’t wait to test the Escort Max 360C out and see how she fairs! Thanks @Heywood
I would’ve tested the R7, but I don’t have it in my possession right now. @Dukes has it right now.
 
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SilenceDogoodNinja

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I‘m glad that you don’t either.... but like anything, never say never.

The lure of easy money and as the tech gets better and more reliable... you just never know.

Remember when you guys were able to use Jammers?

Enjoy not having to deal with it for as long as you can
Post automatically merged:


I would’ve tested the R7, but I don’t have it in my possession right now. @Dukes has it right now.
At least it was nice of your city to make those trucks easier to find for testing ha ha!
 

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OMG, @Heywood, I am speechless...

I have only one thought on my mind that is torturing me. I saw an MRCT test from Australia here that was so promising in terms of distance and although there was an initial K band alert, that corrected itself later into MRCD one, but was impressive and long-distant. I mean, this is a huge difference. Would it be possible that your detector could be different if we may say so? I have read here that there are hot and cooler detectors. Do you have another R1 or R3 around to give it a try just in case?
 

Heywood

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OMG, @Heywood, I am speechless...

I have only one thought on my mind that is torturing me. I saw an MRCT test from Australia here that was so promising in terms of distance and although there was an initial K band alert, that corrected itself later into MRCD one, but was impressive and long-distant. I mean, this is a huge difference. Would it be possible that your detector could be different if we may say so? I have read here that there are hot and cooler detectors. Do you have another R1 or R3 around to give it a try just in case?
No other R1 or R3 on hand at the moment. I bought it from a brick and mortar store a few years ago.

If I thought there was going be a concern, I can borrow Dukes R1 if I thought there would be a difference. We share our resources between ourselves. Guns and detectors.

I have compared my results over the years with @Dukes, who does have the R1. The results between the 2 models are pretty much the same.

He also has the Pro-M and RC-M for comparison. Lives close to me in the same city. The difference and reactions between his 3 and my R3/ Pro-M/ RC-M, are pretty much inline with each other.

We’ve talked about it, but the comparison testing have been so similar, that we never discuss “Hotter” or “Colder” detectors. We just compare notes on whatever FW we’re working on at the time.

If he see’s something off, or different, he asks me to confirm it... and I do the same. We each test independently since MRCD is a test of “Opportunity”. It’s not something you can plan for since it’s mobile.

It’s the same detector I’ve always used on my tests. It’s the same R3 you’ve seen in all my tests.

MRCD and MRCT are in the same category but have some differences. Depending how it’s used and positioned, MRCT is easier to detect than MRCD.

We have both systems here. All of our MRCT is regulated to RLC’s only. It’s high up on poles and from behind. Usually within 50 meters from the intersection. Sometimes closer.

Since I can’t independently turn off MRCT on the R3, it’s always on. In the scenario that I face, I find the detection of MRCT from the RLC’s, with the R3, next to useless. I can’t recall when it’s ever warned me.

The Max360C can’t detect MRCT. The R-EX and Radenso’s... I leave the MRCT option off. I just rely on the database alerts and visual signage at each intersection. There’s more falsing from MRCT.

My thoughts with the R3?

In the earlier FW runs with the R3, it was batting a 70/30 balance on getting the ID right. 30% if the time it would get it right from the start. 70% of the time, it would alert it as K band... and sometimes shift to MRCD when it got pretty close... or just stay as K band.

At least you were getting something and that was somewhat helpful when you were traveling on a familiar route. Not so much when traveling on a strange, or unfamiliar roads. Especially when the trap is setup by a k band speed sign or other k band junk.

I plan on running some more testing. I want to confirm what I was seeing with the R3, 360C and R-EX again.

The R3 running 1.53....well I seen that coming from the detections of March 23rd and 26th on my way to work. The 360C and R-EX... not so much. Especially the 360C.
 

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Finally got a chance to get some head to head MRCD testing done.

The contestants today.
Uniden R3 - FW 1.53
Advanced /K 100% /K Narrow / MRCD On /Ka priority / All Threats On / TSF Off

Escort Redline EX - FW 1.15
AutoNoX / TSF Off/ No Escort Live connection. Autolearn Off

Escort Max 360C - FW 1.11
Same as R-EX

Radenso Pro-M - FW US19
A/C Mode /TSRej Off / MRCD Narrow / MR Filter Off

Radenso RC-M
Same as Pro-M

The course was on a normal street with light traffic. Its a usual spot where they like to hang out. It was overcast with a temperature of -9C. (15.8 F). There is a K band speed sign on the opposite side of the street. It was locked out of all the detectors and was broadcasting a frequency of 24.159. I believe I mentioned it in some of the videos. This is a common tactic used here. A majority of the MRCD traps are set up this way. Sometimes right underneath the signs. No matter, all the detectors had to deal with it.

I've included videos of all the runs for each detector. All the information such as time, speed and GPS coordinates are on the videos for those that want to check.

The R3.
It definitely took a step backward with todays MRCD testing. I was seeing some concerning things this whole week. Facing the antenna twice was showing some shorter than expected MRCD detections.

The R3 was showing a frequency of 24.094

I made 3 passes on the enforcement side. 2 of the 3 passes did not detect the MRCD trap. The 1 pass gave me an alert of 84.9 feet past the trap in the kill zone.

Run 1 - No Alert
Run 2 - 84.9 into the Kill Zone
Run 3 - No Alert

Escort R-EX
Earlier testing showed the R-EX to be pretty good at detecting MRCD. Today was a different showing. I had a hard time seeing what it was doing so I made 4 runs against the trap. It was showing me a frequency of 24.104.

I really have no explanation why the R-EX did this bad? I'd expect that the R3 might have some issues due to the 24.0050 floor, but I didn't expect the R-EX to totally miss this trap.

Run 1 - 372.4 feet in the kill zone
Run 2 - 71.9 feet in the kill zone. ( It actually showed K first then switched to MRCD)
Run 3 - No alert
Run 4 - No alert



Escort Max 360C

Last time I tested it, it failed badly. Today, it surprised me. 3 runs. No missed alerts. No Kill zone problems. It's like the R-EX and 360C switched places. One very surprising run.

Run 1 - 583 feet
Run 2 - 257.8 feet ( Freq 24.095
Run 3 - 147 feet (Freq 24.105)

Radenso Pro-M

It did it's usual stuff. The first 2 runs were underwhelming. Then it pulled off a pretty unbelievable hero detection. It was out of character from what I had been seeing up to that point against that particular MRCD rig, so I gave it 4 runs to see how much of a 1 off it was.

Run 1 - 273.2 feet
Run 2 - 399.1 feet
Run 3 - 1219.7 feet ( Longest of the day)
Run 4 - 810.1 feet

Radenso RC-M

My daily driver. The antenna is down lower and behind my grill, but it's larger physically and traffic was very light. This 1 did have 1 hero run, so it got an extra run because of that. The 3 other runs were much more consistent.

If you watch the 3rd run, I'm holding up the OBD II port FMT ( Fast Measurement Tool) so you can see how it works and I can get near exact measurements.

Run 1 - 429.8 feet
Run 2 - 475.1 feet
Run 3 - 901.2 feet
Run 4 - 463.8 feet

Remember.. this is just one test and should be taken along with others to get a better picture of how they react. MRCD is tricky and there's all sorts of factors that can effect the detection range. Reflection from cars traveling or even cars parked in front of it. Temperature on the outside mounted antenna... they all factor into the results.
Admitting splitting hairs.... from the video cam lenses, with some “fisheye“ included, still looked like the R3, EX, and 360c had antenna angled to port (left) a bit. Does the EX, or R3 off Axis issue with MRCD? The Pro M looked to be facing slightly starboard (right). great videos!
 

Heywood

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Fish eye more than anything. The 360C and R-EX share the same mag mount and it’s more dead center of the windshield and further away from the dash cam.

The R3 sits a little loser on the same mount as the Pro-M, but it doesn’t make much difference. There’s no excuse it missed the alert twice and put me 84 feet into the kill zone. It could’ve been mounted backwards for how it performed.

I’m still running the 360C more trying to figure out how it changed stripes. One of the only thing that might be different is if I’m running Escort Live vs not allowing it to.

Same with how the R-EX did so terribly this time around as well.

I’ll be trying some more testing as the weather cooperates.
 
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CarefulDriver

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How is it possible that they haven't tested the update before releasing it? Are those updates developed in South Korea or USA?
 

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