V1 Gen2 vs R7, V1 Gen1, Redline EX, Max360c, Pro M on 33.8, 34.7, 35.5, & K band, Red Barn Test Course 3-16-20

jdong

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By comparison and also observation, I was surprised that the Gen2 V1 didn't shellack the R7 (as most had suggested before testing). With many discounts currently on the R7, it still remains the value proposition of the 2nd decade so far. I am equally surprised that Mike's had some issues with early edition detectors . As I' ve stated before, I've always been an early adopter, BUT am also glad that I waited this one out. He'll get it right, I'm sure.

Mike's great but we are seriously re-writing history if we think his products are or have been immune from issues. Remember the original POP implementation and how often it would J-out legit 33.8 LEOs? Or those V1 revisions with the temp sensors that would throw the "E" errors? Things like that happen but VR eventually gets it right.

I definitely agree that the R7 remains a strong contender with a compelling set of features, and the V1G2 is not a clear winner over it. But that's how all new products have been in this market since like 2010. Nothing that's been released has been the total death of another direct competitor.

Range-wise, I think we still need more testing of the V1G2. It's drop-in replaced a Ka Narrow, K Off R7, and I've gotten two 34.7 saves that surprised me in terms of how far away and off axis it picked up the initial alert before losing it for a half mile and picking it up again. The V1G2 might be the best on the market for catching a faint whiff of a signal -- the winning formula that made the RL BS/RDR and to a lesser extent the swept V1G1 great performers. But short of a "stew" style test it's really hard to characterize that in the real world across just a few test runs.

In terms of behavior gripes, the R7's biggest problem for me is the same as the R1/R3: I still get occasional 34.699 and 34.700 falses that I cannot explain. Like literally in the middle of I-15 on the desert when there isn't even civilization to the side of the road, I'll get a single blip at those exact frequencies. And in California, 34.7 is all we really have, so false alerts at 34.7 are really unacceptable for me. Ironically I ignore 1-blip 34.699/34.700 alerts from my Unidens because they're too on tune and more likely to be a false.

So far I've had one false on the V1G2 and it was pretty far out of tune. That's fewer Ka falses than I'm personally seeing on the R7 and more easy to discern from a real threat. The arrows are much more responsive on the V1G2 and the ramp-up is better by far. Not saying the R7 is no good anymore because of these minor flaws of course.... just saying, even with perfect 20-20 hindsight, today if I were to buy a new detector for my use cases I would choose a V1G2 over an R7.
 

Vortex

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I'm working on the video now and found something unexpected...

Remember how we were talking about the Pro M losing range because of the Ka Filter being enabled?

Well this year the V1 Gen1 outperformed the Max360c on 34.7 while last year the Max360c had the longest detections. I have no idea why that's the case...

Vortex's 34.7 Averaged Radar Detector Test Results, Red Barn Course, 3-16-20.png

Avg 34.7 Results Chart.png


Maybe it’s because of a performance change with the 360c between fw 1.8 and 1.11?

Maybe something about my test course is different that I’m not aware of? Maybe traffic related?

Maybe there’s some other uncontrolled variable I’m not considering?

Either way, I guess it’s yet another good example of why we should look for the overall trends between lots of different tests instead of trying to come up with absolute conclusions based on any one test.
 
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thesilverbullet

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Time? RL-O vs V1 and R series has already been done extensively. No reason to think those results would change, and for most the RL-O is no longer relevant due to its lack of K filtering.

i understand. i'm old school and still like seeing the RLO as a base line reference- specially for this one since RL is analog same as v1g2. Plus - we have been waiting how many years for mike to release an upgrade to hang with the RL?
 

PointerCone

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Mike's great but we are seriously re-writing history if we think his products are or have been immune from issues. Remember the original POP implementation and how often it would J-out legit 33.8 LEOs? Or those V1 revisions with the temp sensors that would throw the "E" errors? Things like that happen but VR eventually gets it right.
I was referring to some hardware issues (front button & display bleed) ) and also some startup issues on the V1G2. As I've told many, my Gen 1 V2 have been pretty much bulletproof sans the solder issues . I expect the G2 will be the same. In spite of that, readers need to be aware that traffic radar bands have not changed in over 30 years. Given that, the premium detector you're running today will save you as much today as it did before the V1G2 was introduced. This has always been the case.

I recall when the RX65 S7 came out that it made old Unidens and Radio Shack and Cobras look like they were back in the stone ages (and compared to the S7, they were). However, when the first Stir-O and later Redline (M3) came out , these units did not at all render the S7 inoperable or obsolete by any means. They were better yes, BUT not obsolescence better. Same here with the R7 and V1G2. These units did NOT render your old R1/3 or V1G1 or even Redline EX obsolete. In fact they just raised the bar upon which others were measured. But the fact remains that 99.9% of the current crop of premium detectors as tested by @Vortex above are still , within a few hundred feet, more than enough for a save. I occasionally still run my near 20 year old S7 on USA Mode (segged and RDR off) and am still amazed with how good it does decades later on Ka band. It was then good then and is that good now!!
 

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i understand. i'm old school and still like seeing the RLO as a base line reference- specially for this one since RL is analog same as v1g2. Plus - we have been waiting how many years for mike to release an upgrade to hang with the RL?

Unless there’s a good reason to test with a discontinued detector (the V1 Gen1 definitely applies in this case), I try to avoid testing with them, especially considering the new baseline is the R series.

That said, I also think it’s be cool if someone else would like to pit the RL O against the V1Gen2 just for fun. :)
 

oversteer325

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Unless there’s a good reason to test with a discontinued detector (the V1 Gen1 definitely applies in this case), I try to avoid testing with them, especially considering the new baseline is the R series.

That said, I also think it’s be cool if someone else would like to pit the RL O against the V1Gen2 just for fun. :)
@Kennyc56 :cool:
 

jdong

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i understand. i'm old school and still like seeing the RLO as a base line reference- specially for this one since RL is analog same as v1g2. Plus - we have been waiting how many years for mike to release an upgrade to hang with the RL?

FWIW the V1G2 isn't what I'd consider to be analog. It's not wideband digital and software defined like Theia, it's not analog with a filtering chip bolted on the side like an iXc or RL-EX, but it's more akin to the Max or Uniden R or Stinger style design, where it's a traditional horn detector with a fully digital processing/filtering backend, and unique/creative components on the analog side.

In any case, the design goals and accomplishments are totally different and this argument is focused on pure range in "max" configurations being the criteria. Mike V has beat the RL many years ago in filtering. TMF2 has been better than the RL, RL-O, and RL-EX's K band filter and that's before the V1G2's K Verifier. Ka Guard has been a much better filter than RDR in terms of responsiveness, and that's why RDR OFF was the configuration where the Redline first started to have an advantage over the original V1. BS/RDR to this date is still somewhat problematic with 33.8 filtering as there are many junk detectors that RDR OFF simply cannot deal with, but they don't affect the more novel forms of filtering that newer detectors do.

If the RL-O is still working great for you, that's awesome. But for a lot of us, it's been more or less a one trick pony and that trick is less and less interesting as more detectors go on the market that have similar Ka range but plenty more filtering capability.
 

Kennyc56

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We've run one of my Redline-O's against the V1G2 during testing and they were so close you could hardly call a winner! We will always include a Redline-O in every test that @VariableWave and I do because we both love them and because they still always either tie or win every damn test we run! It is a one trick pony but will always be the benchmark for Ka band when segged with RDR off till something comes along and spanks it! The V1G2 is beating it, but still can't knock it out just yet!
 
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PointerCone

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@PointerCone - i cant believe we are the only ones that would love to see the RLO in this test? it took mike 13+ years to beat out the old king - maybe.

where do think she would have landed here?
View attachment 142740
On 34.7 it would have beat all of them......................35.5 and 33.8 a toss-up.................
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We've run one of my Redline-O's against the V1G2 during testing and they were so close you could hardly call a winner! We will always include a Redline-O in every test that @VariableWave and I do because we both love them and because they still always either tie or win every damn test we run! It is a one trick pony but will always be the benchmark for Ka band when segged with RDR off till something comes along and spanks it! The V1G2 is beating it, but still can't knock it out just yet!
Great point. I suspect that the Stir-O (m3) could still beat all of them, bar none, on 34.7 But that's a remote.
 
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thesilverbullet

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We've run one of my Redline-O's against the V1G2 during testing and they were so close you could hardly call a winner! We will always include a Redline-O in every test that @VariableWave and I do because we both love them and because they still always either tie or win every damn test we run! It is a one trick pony but will always be the benchmark for Ka band when segged with RDR off till something comes along and spanks it! The V1G2 is beating it, but still can't knock it out just yet!

You are a the man - thats what I’m talking about. I got the same results with my r3. r3 barely edged out my rl by a few feet.
 

Kennyc56

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You are a the man - thats what I’m talking about. I got the same results with my r3. r3 barely edged out my rl by a few feet.
My Redline-O's have either beaten or at least tied all 5 of my R1's along with @VariableWave 's 2 R3's as well as his R7! My Redline-O has finally got it's hands full now with these new V1G2's but it still is very close! These V1G2's will dig down however and pull a detection from hell every once in a while and blow your mind!
 
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thesilverbullet

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On 34.7 it would have beat all of them......................35.5 and 33.8 a toss-up.................
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Great point. I suspect that the Stir-O (m3) could still beat all of them, bar none, on 34.7 But that's a remote.

aewsome - I agree.
 

cihkal

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My Redline-O's have either beaten or at least tied all 5 of my R1's along with @VariableWave 'e 2 R3's as well as his R7! My Redline-O has finally got it's hands full now with these new V1G2's but it still is very close! These V1G2's will dig down however and pull a detection from hell every once in a while and blow your mind!
Almost able to sniff sun noise!
 

thesilverbullet

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My Redline-O's have either beaten or at least tied all 5 of my R1's along with @VariableWave 's 2 R3's as well as his R7! My Redline-O has finally got it's hands full now with these new V1G2's but it still is very close! These V1G2's will dig down however and pull a detection from hell every once in a while and blow your mind!
Awesome info - rl was doing this 13+ yrs ago...
 

Kennyc56

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Almost able to sniff sun noise!
The alerts I've gotten already with my V1G2 in just a couple of days have knocked me out! During testing it doesn't always show up but against a State Trooper that was hiding up ahead over a mile total on the other side of a bridge it killed my bad @ss R1 by 7 seconds! I didn't believe it so I ran them again solo and got the same results!
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Awesome info - rl was doing this 13+ yrs ago...
I've wondered a million times why they didn't just fix the original Redline-O's K- band filtering! If they would have kept selling them and tweaking who knows what kind of range and off axis they could have ended up with!
 
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Gowski

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For the most part, this is true.

Although one reason we always look for extreme detection range is that not all traps are like the one in this test, the radar running in Constant On mode.

Likewise, no detector is going to save you if you're the only vehicle on the road and the LEO is shooting Instant On.

The value in having the extreme range is providing an alert to a target well ahead before YOU enter the kill zone where YOU are the target being shot. The more effective sensitivity your detector has, the better your chance of hearing more distant I/O shots on the rabbits ahead.

Another scenario is in very difficult terrain. LEOs love to hide around sharp turns and over hilltops. Trust me that there are traps that could pinch you using constant on if the LEO targets a distant bend or hilltop and you have a crappy detector. And also if he's moving opposite direction in tight turns. I have come uncomfortably close with the V1Gen1 due to it's less than stellar off-axis performance on that front horn.

Another thing to consider, for the minority affected, is the detector's stealth ability. It's a no brainer that the V1Gen2 has just become the de facto choice in stealth windshield mounts. True stealth has two elements, can it be detected AND can it be seen? While the RedLine Ex is just as effective at avoiding the microwave detector, it's not as well suited as the Gen2 at avoiding the eyeball detectors that LEOs also use. It's thinner design, mounting options and 100% blacked out appearance is going to be MUCH easier to conceal than the RedLine. It also has the advantage of arrows since LEOs in the outlawed state like to move through traffic from behind blipping, looking for taillights and watching the RDD. While your busy scanning ahead he's attacking from the rear with his RDD.

Trust me I agree with you 100%. Being in NH with enforcement that knows how to take advantage of the foliage, I rely very much on raw sensitivity and certainly understand the value of it.
 

thesilverbullet

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Unless there’s a good reason to test with a discontinued detector (the V1 Gen1 definitely applies in this case), I try to avoid testing with them, especially considering the new baseline is the R series.

That said, I also think it’s be cool if someone else would like to pit the RL O against the V1Gen2 just for fun. :)

maybe discounted but rdf members still own and use the RLo. enthusiast like myself would like to see an RLo in a test over a solo any day.
 

Vortex

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maybe discounted but rdf members still own and use the RLo. enthusiast like myself would like to see an RLo in a test over a solo any day.

Well as was suggested earlier, there's been plenty of R series vs RL O tests and hopefully that'll be helpful to give you an idea of how things'll compare.

Something I've found with these tests is that no matter how many detectors I test, there's always people asking why I didn't include detectors X, Y, or Z and so I gotta draw the line somewhere. ;)

Heck, even if I tested literally every detector on the planet, people would ask "well what about testing on a straightaway" or "what about X band" or "what about MRCD" or "what about with different settings" or "what about having multiple copies of a detector"...

It's also part of the reason why I'm always appreciative when I see other people test too. I can't test everything, as cool as that would be. :)
 

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