V1 Gen2 vs R7, V1 Gen1, Redline EX, Max360c, Pro M on 33.8, 34.7, 35.5, & K band, Red Barn Test Course 3-16-20

OBeerWANKenobi

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Vortex

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Here's a compilation showing the kill zone with all the different radar guns. (I'm still reviewing footage for myself before shooting the main video for the test to learn all the different bulletpoints.) :)


I know some of this may be small in the video, but a couple key points:

For the Bee III, the antenna was angled off to the left off-axis, similar to what @Brainstorm69 and @Jag42 do in their tests, in an attempt to reduce detection range for the RD's. It also reduced the kill zone down to about 200' since it meant the Bee III couldn't pick up cars directly in front of it.

For the Stalker II and Genesis II runs, we moved the radar car forward a bit to tuck it behind some bushes as I mentioned. The radar gun antennas were also angled right more, aimed more downrange down the course. This helped increase the kill zone up to 300'.

The distances being shown on the RD phone for the Stalker II runs are incorrect. I forgot to reset the RD gun's location in the RD phone when moving the car forward to the new position so distances are actually a little shorter (50-75' or so) than what's shown on the phone. The distances for the Genesis II runs are correct.

That's it for now. Time to shoot the main video going over the results. :)
 

RayC

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I also do like the Escort implementation but unfortunately neither the R7 nor the Max360's OLED screens last well over time. After a few years they no longer are as bright as they used to be (inherent in the display technology) and that's been inherently obvious as I make a ton of trips to Las Vegas where the sun is so bright that you need to wear sunscreen inside of the car to avoid arriving sunburned.

Maybe there's room for improvement in the V1's display setup but actually after years of using OLED screen detectors, it was refreshing to go back to the V1's sorta retro display. It's been a time-honored winning formula that takes some time to get used to, but always holds a special sentimental place in my heart.

After I heard the reports of burn in I only ran it in dark mode so it just lights up for alerts. After a few days I actually prefer it. If no alerts there is nothing to see anyway and it makes actual alerts easier to spot visually when the screen comes on. While I don't know for sure but I imagine running in that mode it would take a decade to get burn in so unless you are running display on all the time not something to worry about.

edit; this is for the r7. I didn't get burn in on the R1/R3 with display on but my time was just a few months on those units.
 
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R4D4RUS3R

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After I heard the reports of burn in I only ran it in dark mode so it just lights up for alerts. After a few days I actually prefer it. If no alerts there is nothing to see anyway and it makes actual alerts easier to spot visually when the screen comes on. While I don't know for sure but I imagine running in that mode it would take a decade to get burn in so unless you are running display on all the time not something to worry about.

edit; this is for the r7. I didn't get burn in on the R1/R3 with display on but my time was just a few months on those units.
Same here. Dark mode and it works out really well. I never look at the detector unless it goes off so no reason to have the display on.
 

TeamQuack

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Sick test bro, thank you for your hard work with the testing for the community. The results are exactly as i expected! I guess the backorder will get backed up even more now!
 
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dudeinnz

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I also ran with the Ka filters disabled for the V1 Gen1, R7, and Redline EX. (You can't disable them for the Max360c and V1 Gen2 so it's always running with Ka filters.) I meant to disable it for the Pro M, but I forgot unfortunately since I normally run with it on, unlike the other detectors.

Also a quick note about the Pro M. As I mentioned it earlier, I ran it with Ka Filter on. I meant to turn it off for testing, but I forgot to turn it off. The R7, V1 Gen1, and Redline EX I tested with the Ka filters disabled. The Pro M had the filter enabled. Last year it managed to beat the V1 Gen1 and Max360c on 34.7 with the filter disabled. That said, I have since enabled Ka Filter on the Pro M to filter out false Ka alerts and it looks like, compared to last year's results at least, it does affect the range. For testing purposes, I do wish that I had also done a set of passes with the Pro M with Ka filter disabled to see how much that would improve things, but honestly I forgot to change that. Sorry about that. Either way, it does look like if you're running the Ka Filter to cut out the false Ka alerts you'll otherwise get, it may affect your range.

Thanks for all the testing and putting up the results asap Vortex. Great to see Mike's update is on par with the greatest out there.

I had a comment regarding the Pro-M "mistake". I am unsure if Ka filter is something which is default on or off from the factory? I think you could consider putting an * on the graphs/images to represent that Ka filter was on and it could have affected range. To be honest not everyone is going to read the text, and most folk will focus on the images. Just a suggestion.

Thanks to you and @ferius for the time and gallons of fuel spent testing.
 

Vortex

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I had a comment regarding the Pro-M "mistake". I am unsure if Ka filter is something which is default on or off from the factory? I think you could consider putting an * on the graphs/images to represent that Ka filter was on and it could have affected range. To be honest not everyone is going to read the text, and most folk will focus on the images. Just a suggestion.

That's an excellent suggestion. Thank you. I've just updated the OP. :)
 

Nine_C1

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Another comparison of the data

Cost Analysis.PNG


So it's interesting that the best miles per gallon also tracks to the detector with the longest range with the exception of 33.8 Ka where the V1Gen1 with it's interleaved POP sweeps makes it the best bang for the buck on that band.

Clearly the V1Gen2 is a better value (cost vs performance) than the original Gen1 and especially for the K-Band where you are paying a penny less per foot of detection but with superior false filtering.

Does anyone think the Escort's are overpriced considering their level of performance here?
 
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jdong

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Another comparison of the data

View attachment 142619

So it's interesting that the best miles per gallon also tracks to the detector with the longest range with the exception of 33.8 Ka where the V1Gen1 with it's interleaved POP sweeps makes it the best bang for the buck on that band.

Clearly the V1Gen2 is a better value (cost vs performance) than the original Gen1 and especially for the K-Band where you are paying a penny less per foot of detection but with superior false filtering.

Does anyone think the Escort's are overpriced considering their level of performance here?

It reminds me of an argument someone smarter than me used during an argument about cars: "If you start talking about optimal value, nothing will ever beat a $16,000 Nissan bare bones Versa" :D

It is good to think about detectors in terms of their bang-for-the-buck, but (this will get me banned for sure) once we start talking about cost efficiency, nothing beats setting your cruise control to 65 and putting your blinkers on in the far right lane like a Prius.


I do agree though that some detectors stick out here like a sore thumb in terms of relatively poor bang for the buck. Escort's detector lineup is starting to look long in the tooth -- they are more or less just adding incremental appeal to existing technologies/detectors and have not been delivering the step change in performance that we as enthusiasts desire. I'm willing to give them the Max as ushering in a new era of DSP-driven detectors. Unlike a lot of folks here, I found BS/RDR to be a relatively boring incremental improvement on the M3 design -- it was a hack to squeeze every last drop of performance out of that platform but at the time we were simply desperate because there were no other viable alternatives. The MaxCi was really the only other exciting thing to happen but heck that's just repeating the Max's formula but with a M3R instead of a M4 as a starting point, and where is our windshield mount digital M3, years later?

Overall I agree with the point being made but also find it dangerous to start the "what is the best bang for the buck" theory. A lot of us treat our radar detectors the same way we would treat a HAZMAT suit or a bulletproof vest. Any reasonable amount of money we can throw towards a long-range IO save seems to be worth the justification. Very very few products have come our way that give us pause in that regard (e.g. Stinger? MaxCi?)
 

Cannonf600

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As I remember Mike talked about that in the interview with Vortex. He was saying how they had to verify a signal as a threat and not a false but still be sure not to miss a I/O shot. I trust Mike that they got it right in V1g2.
Post automatically merged:

Did you run a Q/T Test? Based on your testing it looks like their TMF filter cuts back on range but does that cut also make it blind to I/O?

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As I remember Mike talked about that in the interview with Vortex. He was saying how they had to verify a signal as a threat and not a false but still be sure not to miss a I/O shot. I trust Mike that they got it right in V1g2.
 
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Nine_C1

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Overall I agree with the point being made but also find it dangerous to start the "what is the best bang for the buck" theory. A lot of us treat our radar detectors the same way we would treat a HAZMAT suit or a bulletproof vest. Any reasonable amount of money we can throw towards a long-range IO save seems to be worth the justification. Very very few products have come our way that give us pause in that regard (e.g. Stinger? MaxCi?)

Of course...…….but as the chart shows, cost vs performance need not contradict one another either.

What it does show clearly here is that the best performing detectors also happen to be the best values. The R7, the V1Gen2 and even the V1Gen1 are in line with their pricing. The Radenso a little pricey for how well it detects radar and the Escorts...…….totally out of line (which I think most of us knew).

Even more surprising since the basic RF design inside the Escort's is about decade behind the other three (with the Gen1 being the exception). It's no surprise that a modified M4 priced at $650 is going to get destroyed in such a comparison. Maybe a lot more surprising that a rebaked M3 is not much better...…...but then they increased the price over the original by $100 and screwed up the M3 recipe (or intentionally went back to their M3 kneecap code).

In any case. If it's truly wonderful and worth the money, this is a good way to look at it.
 
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fishing66

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Of course...…….but as the chart shows, cost vs performance need not contradict one another either.

What it does show clearly here is that the best performing detectors also happen to be the best values. The R7, the V1Gen2 and even the V1Gen1 are in line with their pricing. The Radenso a little pricey for how well it detects radar and the Escorts...…….totally out of line (which I think most of us knew).

Even more surprising since the basic RF design inside the Escort's is about decade behind the other three (with the Gen1 being the exception). It's no surprise that a modified M4 priced at $650 is going to get destroyed in such a comparison. Maybe a lot more surprising that a rebaked M3 is not much better...…...but then they increased the price over the original by $100 and screwed up the M3 recipe (or intentionally went back to their M3 kneecap code).

In any case. If it's truly wonderful and worth the money, this is a good way to look at it.

With Escort, you pay a lot but you don't get a lot. Yowsa, how things have changed. Remember when the BS RDR Redline was the t!ts? And then they provided the same mod for the STI Magnum? And then there was the STI-R Plus. Those were the days....

Oh well, it's their problem, not ours. Other manufacturers chose to up their game and Escort did not. We now have two windshield-mounted beasts and Theia will arrive at some point.
 

Gowski

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All these detectors will save you from tickets and over the course of a year or so pay for themselves.
 

Nine_C1

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All these detectors will save you from tickets and over the course of a year or so pay for themselves.

For the most part, this is true.

Although one reason we always look for extreme detection range is that not all traps are like the one in this test, the radar running in Constant On mode.

Likewise, no detector is going to save you if you're the only vehicle on the road and the LEO is shooting Instant On.

The value in having the extreme range is providing an alert to a target well ahead before YOU enter the kill zone where YOU are the target being shot. The more effective sensitivity your detector has, the better your chance of hearing more distant I/O shots on the rabbits ahead.

Another scenario is in very difficult terrain. LEOs love to hide around sharp turns and over hilltops. Trust me that there are traps that could pinch you using constant on if the LEO targets a distant bend or hilltop and you have a crappy detector. And also if he's moving opposite direction in tight turns. I have come uncomfortably close with the V1Gen1 due to it's less than stellar off-axis performance on that front horn.

Another thing to consider, for the minority affected, is the detector's stealth ability. It's a no brainer that the V1Gen2 has just become the de facto choice in stealth windshield mounts. True stealth has two elements, can it be detected AND can it be seen? While the RedLine Ex is just as effective at avoiding the microwave detector, it's not as well suited as the Gen2 at avoiding the eyeball detectors that LEOs also use. It's thinner design, mounting options and 100% blacked out appearance is going to be MUCH easier to conceal than the RedLine. It also has the advantage of arrows since LEOs in the outlawed state like to move through traffic from behind blipping, looking for taillights and watching the RDD. While your busy scanning ahead he's attacking from the rear with his RDD.
 

thesilverbullet

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awesome test - but can anyone explain to me why RLO has been dropped from recent test? specially over the likes of batman & solo? maybe i get batman but solo?

we know the it would kill v1g1 and most others on the list.
 

InsipidMonkey

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awesome test - but can anyone explain to me why RLO has been dropped from recent test?
Time? RL-O vs V1 and R series has already been done extensively. No reason to think those results would change, and for most the RL-O is no longer relevant due to its lack of K filtering.
 

jdong

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Time? RL-O vs V1 and R series has already been done extensively. No reason to think those results would change, and for most the RL-O is no longer relevant due to its lack of K filtering.

That and it’s no longer realistically for sale or supported. Each detector costs a lot of time to test and it is sensible to prioritize getting data on the detectors without a lot of data and to compare them to their most relevant competitors, not just ones we think will beat it.
 

Nine_C1

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That and it’s no longer realistically for sale or supported. Each detector costs a lot of time to test and it is sensible to prioritize getting data on the detectors without a lot of data and to compare them to their most relevant competitors, not just ones we think will beat it.

Totally agree. The optimum test is one where you can maintain all the conditions throughout the test which includes temperature and humidity. It's bad enough going morning to evening let alone one day into the next. So for consistency's sake, you limit the field and try to squeeze it all into one session.

The V1Gen1 was only relevant in this test to show the level of improvement from previous model to the new which was of critical interest. Otherwise, all other detectors are current production.
 

PointerCone

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Does anyone think the Escort's are overpriced considering their level of performance here?
Yes, BUT Escorts always have been @Nine_C1 I was hoping to see a Gen 1 Redline in here with K band off and segged as I believe it would be much closer to the R7 and Gen 2 V1 than the EX.

By comparison and also observation, I was surprised that the Gen2 V1 didn't shellack the R7 (as most had suggested before testing). With many discounts currently on the R7, it still remains the value proposition of the 2nd decade so far. I am equally surprised that Mike's had some issues with early edition detectors . As I' ve stated before, I've always been an early adopter, BUT am also glad that I waited this one out. He'll get it right, I'm sure.

I do agree with Mike and others that most all of these will get you a save, BUT the difference between the top 4 and the bottom others can be dramatic in an IO sampling situation or that long shot on the desert road where you're the ONLY guy out there. Foliage and curves also make a dramatic difference between the top contenders and the also rans.
 
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