V1 Gen2 vs R7, V1 Gen1, Redline EX, Max360c, Pro M on 33.8, 34.7, 35.5, & K band, Red Barn Test Course 3-16-20

Vortex

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Yesterday I went out to do some testing with the V1 Gen2 against all the top contenders.

V1 Gen2 with Max360c, V1 G1, R7, Redline EX, and Pro M.jpg


Radar Detectors:
  • Valentine 1 Gen 2 (fw 4.1018)
  • Valentine 1 Gen 1 (fw 3.8945)
  • Uniden R7 (fw 1.29)
  • Escort Max 360c (fw 1.11)
  • Escort Redline EX (fw 1.15) Thank you to @mikedotd for loaning me your Redline EX!
  • Radenso Pro M (fw US 19)
Every detector was set up with X off, K and Ka on. Detectors were segged 2/5/8 when it made a difference (V1 Gen1, Redline EX, Uniden R7, Radenso Pro M). I also ran with the Ka filters disabled for the V1 Gen1, R7, and Redline EX. (You can't disable them for the Max360c and V1 Gen2 so it's always running with Ka filters.) I meant to disable it for the Pro M, but I forgot unfortunately since I normally run with it on in normal driving, unlike the other detectors. In the results, I've added a * by the Pro M to denote this.

Radar Guns:
  • MPH Bee III (33.8)
  • Stalker II (34.7)
  • Decatur Genesis II (35.5 & K Band)
Test course:

The test course is the tried and true red barn test course. It's a relatively difficult course with a few bends and trees blocking the signal. Maximum detection range is about half a mile.

Traffic was pretty minimal thankfully. It got a little heavier towards the end of the day when we got into K band, but it was fairly light overall. Cars can and do affect the detection ranges so results may vary. This is one of the main reasons I ran 3 runs per detector on Ka. (I reduced it to 2 per detector / settings combo on K band to save time.)

Weather was sunny and clear.

Test results:

Starting off, here's a look at the results on 33.8:

Vortex's 33.8 Radar Detector Test Data, Red Barn Course, 3-16-20.png

Vortex's 33.8 Radar Detector Test Results, Red Barn Course, 3-16-20.png

Vortex's 33.8 Averaged Radar Detector Test Results, Red Barn Course, 3-16-20.png

Not a huge difference between detectors. R7 got the longest distance alerts, followed by the V1 Gen2, and everyone else clustered together.

So R7 and V1 Gen2 are the most sensitive, but the test course is set up such that we can't really see a big difference between detectors. It's certainly good to know that depending on conditions and terrain, different detectors with varying sensitivity can alert right around the same spot, but that doesn't help us understand which detectors have the best sensitivity.

I wanted to get more separation between detectors (most everything was alerting near the red barn) so I modified the radar gun placement for subsequent runs to make things harder. For 33.8, the radar gun had pretty clear line of sight downrange. After we finished, we moved the radar car maybe 50 feet forward to obscure it behind a bush to block some of the signal (it limited the radar gun's detection distance downrange too of course), and this helped create a little more separation between tiers of detectors.

Vortex's 34.7 Radar Detector Test Data, Red Barn Course, 3-16-20.png

Vortex's 34.7 Radar Detector Test Results, Red Barn Course, 3-16-20.png


V1 Gen2 and R7 both managed long distance alerts every time. The results were virtually identical, with one slightly shorter run with the R7, likely due to traffic. (There's a reason we do multiple runs...) :)

Redline EX and V1 Gen 1 each managed one longer detection (but still not R7 or V1 Gen2 range) with the other two detections being closer to the Max 360c and Pro M.
Vortex's 34.7 Averaged Radar Detector Test Results, Red Barn Course, 3-16-20.png

Still plenty of alert distance by all the detectors, but we're starting to see more separation between detectors now.

An impressive showing by the V1 Gen2! Finally we have a detector that can properly take on the R7 on 34.7.

Also a quick note about the Pro M. As I mentioned it earlier, I ran it with Ka Filter on. I meant to turn it off for testing, but I forgot to turn it off. The R7, V1 Gen1, and Redline EX I tested with the Ka filters disabled. The Pro M had the filter enabled. Last year it managed to beat the V1 Gen1 and Max360c on 34.7 with the filter disabled. That said, I have since enabled Ka Filter on the Pro M to filter out false Ka alerts and it looks like, compared to last year's results at least, it does affect the range. For testing purposes, I do wish that I had also done a set of passes with the Pro M with Ka filter disabled to see how much that would improve things, but honestly I forgot to change that. Sorry about that. Either way, it does look like if you're running the Ka Filter to cut out the false Ka alerts you'll otherwise get, it may affect your range.

Speaking of which, I wish the V1 Gen2 had additional filtering available on Ka. I get more false Ka alerts with it than with any other detector, and it doesn't offer a Ka filter you can enable so...

Anyways, let's move on to 35.5, traditionally the hardest Ka frequency detect.

Vortex's 35.5 Radar Detector Test Data, Red Barn Course, 3-16-20.png

Vortex's 35.5 Radar Detector Test Results, Red Barn Course, 3-16-20.png


On 35.5, the V1 Gen2 managed to extend its lead over the R7 with every detection longer than the R7 was capable of. Amazing...

V1 Gen 1, Redline EX, and Max360c all managed one or two longer detections (again not quite up to R7 or V1 Gen2 territory), but otherwise had shorter detections.

The Pro M had the shortest detections.

Here's a look at the results averaged together to simplify things:
Vortex's 35.5 Averaged Radar Detector Test Results, Red Barn Course, 3-16-20.png

Next, moving on to K band. There was a lot to test here so we dropped down to 2 runs per detector / settings combination to save time. This was with the Genesis II. It's a normal circularly polarized K band gun, nothing fancy or low powered.

K Band Test Results Data.png

Vortex's K Band Radar Detector Test Results, Red Barn Course, 3-16-20.png

Vortex's K Band Averaged Radar Detector Test Results, Red Barn Course, 3-16-20.png

I was most curious to see how the V1 Gen2 compared with K Verifier on/off and the different logic modes compared to the R7 at different sensitivity levels. The R7 (with K filter on) is more sensitive than the V1 Gen2 with K Verifier off (which is useless in practice due to extreme false alerts). The V1 Gen2 with Advanced Logic mode (big L mode) is pretty great at filtering out many false alerts, but it's also less sensitive than the R7 in City mode with TSF on...

Now focusing in on just the V1 Gen2's different settings, here's a closer look at how its filters affect range:

Vortex's Valentine 1 Gen2 K Band Test Results, Red Barn Course, 3-16-20.png

So K Verifier (TMF2 replacement) does reduce range.

One of the runs I had with Logic mode (little l mode), the V1 managed a short blip farther away, it lost the signal, and then it reacquired where it normally went off. If I were to ignore that first blip and look at where it was able to hold onto the signal, those results make a little more sense:

Vortex's (Adjusted) Valentine 1 Gen2 K Band Test Results, Red Barn Course, 3-16-20.png

Logic mode (l mode) only mutes weak signals. It doesn't filter out weak signals like Advanced Logic mode (L mode). So seeing Logic and All Bogies return comparable results is what I was expecting.

A big thanks to @ferius for helping me conduct this test, as well as for his amazing new RD testing app!

RD test app in action with V1 Gen2 at red barn.jpg


It uses your phone's mic to listen to when your RD goes off, logs the distances, lets you label each run, and then once you get home, you can make any tweaks and adjustments as needed and export all the alert distances straight into Excel or Google Docs. This thing saved me SO much time... This app is a lifesaver and I'd like to use it in every RD test moving forward...
 
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V1Jake

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First!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks A LOT for taking so much time to get the testing done for the community. Incredible work Vortex

Looks like we have no issues with 35.5 now
 
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JustinP

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That's pretty cool to see the V1G2 switching rankings on different tests with the R7. Great work as always!

Edit: From both tests, it looks like a beast on 35.5. I see one in my future.
 

Vehicle 1

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Wow, excellent testing and write-up. Thank you!
 

TominVirginia

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Yesterday I went out to do some testing with the V1 Gen2 against all the top contenders. I know you guys are super eager to see the results so I'm gonna go ahead and post them and then edit this post to add all the commentary. :)

View attachment 142481

View attachment 142499
View attachment 142483

R7 got the longest distance alerts, followed by the V1 Gen2, and everyone else clustered together.

I wanted to get more separation between detectors (most everything was alerting near the red barn) so I modified the radar gun placement for subsequent runs to make things harder and that definitely helped.

View attachment 142484

View attachment 142485

View attachment 142486
V1 Gen2 and R7 both managed long distance alerts every time. The results were virtually identical, with one slightly shorter run with the R7, likely due to traffic.

Redline EX and V1 Gen 1 each managed one longer detection (not R7 or V1 Gen2 range) with the other two detections being closer to the Max 360c and Pro M.

View attachment 142488

View attachment 142489

View attachment 142490
On 35.5, the V1 Gen2 managed to extend its lead over the R7 with every detection longer than the R7 was capable of. Amazing...

V1 Gen 1, Redline EX, and Max360c all managed one or two longer detections (again not quite up to R7 or V1 Gen2 territory), but otherwise had shorter detections.

The Pro M had the shortest detections.

A quick note about the Pro M. I ran it with Ka Filter on. I meant to turn it off for testing (I usually have it on for daily driving), but I forgot to turn it off. The V1 Gen2 and Max360c are running with Ka filters enabled that can't be disabled, but I think it should be mentioned that the Pro M's was on, unlike the R7, V1 Gen1, or Redline EX that I ran disabled. I'm not sure how big of a difference it'd make if I disabled it. Sorry about that.

Moving on to K band. Lots of testing so we dropped down to 2 runs per detector / settings combination. This was with the Genesis II. Plain old standard K band, nothing low powered.

View attachment 142491

View attachment 142492

View attachment 142493
I was most curious to see how the V1 Gen2 compared with K Verifier on/off and the different logic modes compared to the R7 at different sensitivity levels. The R7 (with K filter on) is more sensitive than the V1 Gen2 with K Verifier off (which is useless in practice). The V1 Gen2 with Advanced Logic mode is great at filtering out many false alerts, but it's also less sensitive than the R7 in City mode with TSF on...

Here's a closer look at just the V1 Gen2's test results alone:

View attachment 142494
So K Verifier (TMF2 replacement) does reduce range. One of the runs I had with l mode, the V1 managed a short blip farther away, it lost the signal, and then it reacquired where it normally went off. If I were to ignore that first blip and look at where it was able to hold onto the signal, those results make a little more sense:

View attachment 142495
Logic mode only mutes weak signals. It doesn't filter out weak signals like Advanced Logic mode. So seeing Logic and All Bogies return comparable results is what I was expecting.

A big thanks to @ferius for helping me conduct this test, as well as for his amazing new RD testing app! This thing is a lifesaver and I'd like to use it in every RD test moving forward...

Time to hit the post button and start cleaning this post up and making it prettier. :)
Thanks as always for all the hard work on our behalf.
 

jdong

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It seems like we have a new top-performer on 35.5 :)

Great showing by the V1G2 and R7 alike -- seems like these two are neck in neck and the two have different pros and cons -- the R7 has a lot of adjustability while the V1, ironically, has turned into a "set it and forget it" sort of magical black box where Valentine has tuned a "quiet" vs non-"quiet" mode.

It's kind of worth pointing out that the V1G1 with Ka guard off is barely able to pull ahead of the Max360c and other filtered detectors. That reminds me of the reasons why I moved away from the V1 after being a die hard fan of the product for so long.

On K band things are very very interesting... the K verifier + L mode is giving slightly worse range than a Max360, which seems surprising. It seems like big-L mode should be treated more like an Auto / City mode. Meanwhile, it seems like folding TMF2 + a BSM filter behind the K Verifier setting means you have to choose between either a super noisy K band with high range or a moderate-but-adequate range K band detection mode. I wonder if Valentine will consider separating that option out more.

With this testing I feel like we can say pretty confidently that Ka band performance is a non-issue, but more investigation will be needed to characterize K band. What a crazy day and age we live in, where K band has turned into the more contentious band compared to Ka when it comes to testing!
 

cihkal

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Interestingly, it seems like the results line up quite well with the graph @Jon at Radenso shared previously showing sensitivity/directivity of the R3 vs the Pro M, with the Uniden forward facing horn peaking near 33.8.
I was onto something... with that other curve and guess
 

gorgid

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Great review. Thank you.
 

InsipidMonkey

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Awesome! Thanks for the testing results @Vortex and @ferius! Very impressive showing by the R7 and V1Gen2! It's amazing how well the V1Gen2 did on 35.5.

Can you post a course map and roughly indicate the "detection zones" on the course? I think you have one already from a previous test, but it would be great to see it here.

You mentioned being able to record the ramp-up and where the detector lost and regained the signal. Is there some way to capture that data visually?

Also, I wonder if the R7 K band results would be any different in K Wide (to be more comparable to V1Gen2 USA mode) than K Narrow? From past testing, it seems range is reduced by roughly 10% running K Wide versus K Narrow. https://www.rdforum.org/index.php?threads/97537/
 

OBeerWANKenobi

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Thanks for your hard work @Vortex et al! Putting together results like this is a lot of work and everyone involved deserves a pat on the back.

Nice to see the early results corroborated.

I've been running the G2 ever since I received it and I'm glad the results for 35.5 are excellent since that's what I face 95% of the time.

The price that we must pay for a quiet detector is also shown IMO. I hope Valentine gives us a sensitivity adjustment and separates the filters as options. I really didn't expect to see these results on normal powered K band. I would have thought it would be a bit closer.
 

cihkal

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Great testing Vortex, this was the one I was waiting for!

Impressive stuff when you consider the V1G2 is scanning all of Ka, all of K, (not mentioning K filters those were tested in combination), is actively reviewing data to suppress garbage Ka, has Ka POP on, and K POP on! That is some damn good stuff I have never seen before!!!

Not bad by the R7, really showing its nice design and amazing sensitivity without the use of a preamp! Wonder how it would have done without some of the settings hacked away... either way wowowow I love this course!
 

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Excellent testing and write up!
Please note, you mentioned that the Pro M had Ka filter on which may have hurt results.
Also, on the K band testing the TS Rej High setting is definetly hurting K performance.
T S Rej low still provides a quiet experience but in my testing switching (on advice from @Heywood ) from High to Low (not Off) increased range dramatically to equal or best the Escort Max series.
I would suggest an asterisk or future testing with these corrections for the Pro M to achieve best results.

Nice to see some back and forth between two top contenders, I'm sure the debates on a champion is already forming.
Thank you @Vortex
 

Normsky

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...It's kind of worth pointing out that the V1G1 with Ka guard off is barely able to pull ahead of the Max360c and other filtered detectors. That reminds me of the reasons why I moved away from the V1 after being a die hard fan of the product for so long....


A win is a win. But the grouping behind the two major players is all within a few hundred feet.

I'll be keeping my V1G1 JBV1 for sometime now.
 

oversteer325

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Thanks for the great testing as always!! Really great to see how evenly matched the G2 and R7 are. Makes it exciting to see how each does on all the different test courses different members setup.
 

Vortex

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Can you post a course map and roughly indicate the "detection zones" on the course? I think you have one already from a previous test, but it would be great to see it here.

hm yeah I suppose once I get to making the video of these results, I can start referencing certain locations or bends in the road as detection zones to help illustrate things a little more clearly. The red barn is a nice visual reference point, for example, that you don't see in the numbers and the charts alone. :)

You mentioned being able to record the ramp-up and where the detector lost and regained the signal. Is there some way to capture that data visually?

I was thinking about that and am not sure of the best way to plot that. I've done two separate charts for one run/detector showing the longest distance it alerted (maybe 5,000 feet) and then when it required (under 3,000 feet). I think it gets a little messy when trying to show multiple detections for one detector and so I've intentionally set up the course to try and avoid any long distance alerts and big breaks in the detection. There are a few runs from various detectors that would briefly lose the signal and reacquire and that would be worth mentioning.

@Vortex Any plans on laser testing?

Nope. I don't have any good laser guns on hand and would have to ask for people to loan me various guns. The only thing I haven't really tested in the TMG VPR head, but that's already been tested pretty extensively by others so I don't have any immediate plans for laser testing.

Excellent testing and write up!
Please note, you mentioned that the Pro M had Ka filter on which may have hurt results.
Also, on the K band testing the TS Rej High setting is definetly hurting K performance.
T S Rej low still provides a quiet experience but in my testing switching (on advice from @Heywood ) from High to Low (not Off) increased range dramatically to equal or best the Escort Max series.
I would suggest an asterisk or future testing with these corrections for the Pro M to achieve best results.

So that was an intentional choice because you need TSR High to filter out Hondas and Acuras, one of the main reasons you'd run a Pro M in the first place, and it's the only way I've ever run the detector.

I certainly could have run TSR Low, or even off, and I have seen that improve K band range in previous testing, but that's not a setting that I personally like changing in practice which is why I didn't for the test.
 

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Awesome test by the red barn, Vortex. I love that barn. Always curious and much expected tests. Looks like a great battle of giants was held there. As I see it, both detectors have their pros and cons, and with Ka 34.7 they show technically the same performance. I regret that I am not seeing the other giant of romance - the great Batman detector. Thank you for your hard work for us to know the new status quo. Gen2 is much better than G1 that was blown out by the competition back then but G2 now is showing strength, especially at 35.5.
 

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