Sincere question about V1 or V2

fireparamed

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Please no flaming, I am NOT trolling. I would appreciate sincere answers.

I could never have afforded a V1 in my younger years so I always bought the mighty Cobra. Then I went without for 20 years. I only re-entered the game 2 years ago. Researching all available options and only using an iPhone, I went with the R3 (And now the R7) because of its stand alone capability.
When I researched the V1, I read pros vs cons and the biggest hang up I had was that reading on the Valentine website, the V1 was still “cutting edge” and provided everything you needed to beat radar. (And nothing you didn’t like GPS, frequency display etc. ) You got what Mike said you needed and everything else was wrong and actually hurt your chances of getting saves.

Then I came on the forum and read about what you guys could do with apps. , Especially JBV1 and thought, wow, that is really cool. Again the problem, I don’t run android and don’t want to buy an android just to control my RD.

Let me state for the record, it’s awesome that Mike allows his RD to interact with other tech. Very forward thinking and cool. But in reality, the absolute best parts of the V1 right now seem to be available ONLY because of the app. Without it, it’s difficult to set up, looses a ton of functionality compared to other RD’s, and is far too chatty. (This is all stuff I’ve read on here from actual V1 users who insist is the best RD on the market once you have the app).

So, is the V2 going to be any different for those of us who would really like to try it out but don’t have an android phone? Will it be a standalone powerhouse, or will Mike again state it’s perfect, only to let JohnnyBoy unlock it’s true potential?

I’ll be honest, I actually am a bit turned off by the fact that the majority of the info of the website talks about how great the V1 is because of all the things it Won’t do, then you realize that in fact once you have the app it does all of those shameful things and a million more which is what seems to make it so good! It’s like the line from a movie where the President is told about area 51 for the fist time. Why didn’t I know about this place? “Plausible deniability “.

Why doesn’t Mike incorporate these features that are clearly good for the RD and even bad mouths a few of them, but makes sure they can be incorporated by others?

Anyway, long post, but truly sincere questions. As I get older and have a bit more disposable income, I long to try things I couldn’t afford in my youth. Partially for nostalgic reasons, partially because of the respect those things have garnered for their years of top notch performance. The V1 falls squarely in both categories.
 

Buz

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-Most people do not want to pair a phone/app with their RD.
-VR needs to keeps costs reasonable.
Therefore the product is pretty basic out of the box.
 

Vortex

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Those are great questions.

Yeah Mike V likes to talk down on features like GPS. It's true that features like GPS lockouts can potentially filter out a legitimate alert, but a well-designed implementation like what we have in JBV1 will make that risk super minimal while offering a ton of extra benefits. IMHO the trade-off is well worth it.

Unofficially my guess is the reason he likes to poo-poo GPS functionality is because most all of it is patented and he doesn't want to deal with licensing fees or lawsuits if he doesn't license. Conveniently enough, having an API and allowing third party developers to add in functionality like lockouts without the same legal and financial issues.

It's true that that what (mostly) makes the V1 special is its third party apps. The detector itself is solid and reliable, but it's not super flashy. The arrows are great and work well, but it doesn't have the best range, filtering, or features. No MRCD, no RLC alerts, no RDD immunity, nothing.

It makes for a great package when used as the platform to run apps like JBV1 on top of, but you really do need an app to get the most of it.

We'll have to wait and see what all the next version of the V1 offers. My guess is longer range and better BSM filtering, but still no GPS. BT will probably be built in instead of external. Cool. The display very well may now have an LCD which can display the frequency and different styles of arrows, but that's not exactly game changing. At the end of the day, I guess it'll be a better performing platform to use if running JBV1.

There's always V1Driver which helps quiet the V1 down for us iPhone users, but it's nowhere near as capable or fully-featured as JBV1. V1Driver has a different intent and certainly also makes the V1 better than it is out of the box, but I don't think it makes the overall package significantly better than what we already have from the competition.

If you don't want to run an Android and JBV1 though, then I don't think the updated V1 will be all that incredible, but I would very much love to be wrong and have Mike completely surprise and blow me away. :)
 
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Brainstorm69

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Why doesn’t Mike incorporate these features that are clearly good for the RD and even bad mouths a few of them, but makes sure they can be incorporated by others?
Simplistic viewpoint is because he either:
  1. Actually believes they aren't necessary; or
  2. There are patents that keep him from doing it inside the detector, but don't prohibit third parties from providing it external to the detector.
 
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fireparamed

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Those are great questions.

Yeah Mike V likes to talk down on features like GPS. It's true that features like GPS lockouts can potentially filter out a legitimate alert, but a well-designed implementation like what we have in JBV1 will make that risk super minimal while offering a ton of extra benefits. IMHO the trade-off is well worth it.

Unofficially my guess is the reason he likes to poo-poo GPS functionality is because most all of it is patented and he doesn't want to deal with licensing fees or lawsuits if he doesn't license. Conveniently enough, having an API and allowing third party developers to add in functionality like lockouts without the same legal and financial issues.

It's true that that what (mostly) makes the V1 special is its third party apps. The detector itself is solid and reliable, but it's not super flashy. The arrows are great and work well, but it doesn't have the best range, filtering, or features. No MRCD, no RLC alerts, no RDD immunity, nothing.

It makes for a great package when used as the platform to run apps like JBV1 on top of, but you really do need an app to get the most of it.

We'll have to wait and see what all the next version of the V1 offers. My guess is longer range and better BSM filtering, but still no GPS. BT will probably be built in instead of external. Cool. The display very well may now have an LCD which can display the frequency and different styles of arrows, but that's not exactly game changing. At the end of the day, I guess it'll be a better performing platform to use if running JBV1.

There's always V1Driver which helps quiet the V1 down for us iPhone users, but it's nowhere near as capable or fully-featured as JBV1. V1Driver has a different intent and certainly also makes the V1 better than it is out of the box, but I don't think it makes the overall package significantly better than what we already have from the competition.

If you don't want to run an Android and JBV1 though, then I don't think the updated V1 will be all that incredible, but I would very much love to be wrong and have Mike completely surprise and blow me away. :)
Thanks Vortex. Your videos are what I used to form my opinions and what brought me to this forum!
I watched a great tv program called “The cars that made America” last night and they highlighted Ford.

Henry was so happy with his Model T, that he refused to change it in any significant way for almost 10 years. He fired anyone who dared challenge the notion that it was outdated. He famously said “You can order a model T in any color you want, as long as it is Black”. His own son Edsel saw the warning signs on the horizon but he wouldn’t listen. It wasn’t until GM overtook Ford in sales that Henry finally realized that his “baby” was done. He didn’t have anything ready to replace it because he hadn’t allowed anyone to work on other concepts.

Honestly, last night’s program is what got me thinking about the V1. I know it’s like a child to Mike. It’s what created his company. In the beginning it was the absolute best of the best, cutting edge in every way. The pinnacle of achievement. But over the years it seems he’s been unable to change with the times.

I’m with you, hoping it’s an incredible offering out of the box, that once again says Mike is the leader of the game. Then it will be Radenso’s turn to knock us off our feet!
 

TurboDriver

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Yeah Mike V likes to talk down on features like GPS.

Unofficially my guess is the reason he likes to poo-poo GPS functionality is because most all of it is patented and he doesn't want to deal with licensing fees or lawsuits if he doesn't license.
This...

IMO Mike is a stubborn coot with a "my or highway" attitude (no disrespect intended) and not going to pay Escort for GPS, so he downplays it, but don't bet that he doesn't know the benefits.

I suppose he gives the tool with ability to add on what you want to make it useful, so he is doing the best he can and still keep it reasonable and simple.
 
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Nine_C1

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I don't run an Android either, but one thing I really liked about the V1 was using the iPhone as a display / controller. K-Band auto-muting and the ability to instantly switch it (K-Band) on or off was a workable solution for me at the time. That time was before the huge eruption of BSMs of course so I don't have a wealth of experience there.

What drove me off the platform was the availability of better Ka performance on other detectors. Uniden impressed me and the R3 is still doing an admirable job (2nd unit). I'd say for my area it's K-Band filtering is more than adequate while still giving sufficient range to the few units I encounter. It's Ka performance is simply terrific. I like the design, construction, display and audio. Really, it's everything I need.

But of course I want more. I want a V1 with even better radar performance and filtering. I'm confident we'll see the enhanced Radar Performance and very hopeful we'll see markedly improved BSM filtering as well. If Escort, Uniden and Radenso were able to make advances in BSM filtering with their superhets, it's not even a question that the same could be done with the V1.

The limiting factor in the old V1 was an underlying architecture (or hardware platform) designed back in 2006 before the BSM bubble. It limited Ka performance as well as the ability to adequately deal with screening BSM signals.

Now, here is a new blueprint with an opportunity to address all those limiting factors. I fully expect the BSM filtering to be as good if not better than anything else available today along with a huge boost in Ka performance.

Of course I could be wrong, but I'm confident enough to bet my $500 on it.
 

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Hard to say why Mike does anything he does. He doesn't explain it and we have dozens of threads speculating on every possible scenario of why the V1 has been out of stock for 11 months when it seems like he had a million different better alternatives.

Instead of looking at the marketing or others speculative opinions which are irrelevant, it's much more productive to focus on your needs and forget everything else.

What are your expectations and have you done any research on how it meets those expectations? If you are interested in a company that you want to be media savvy in their communication or a company that spits out press releases as quickly as it rehashes products then Valentine is not for you.

It's unlike any other product on the market so the learning curve is higher and the experience is potentially even better. If you find it passes some of your tests then try it for yourself and ask questions from those who actually use it daily.
 
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mikedotd

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Only time will tell what's in store for the next V1 revision.

The patents have some interesting hints though, my personal favorite being:

"For example, as described earlier, a sweep of all four bands can be accomplished in about 1 ms and, thus, a sweep for both the front and rear antenna can be accomplished in about 2 ms."

By comparison the shortest duration of POP radar is 16ms. If VR implements the "High probability of intercept radar detector" patent in this latest revision of the V1, it's going to be FAST. Potentially 8 scans of all 4 bands on both antenna's before the 16ms K-POP threshold is met and a decision needs to be made to alert or not, which may be high enough of a scan rate to also determine if a signal is CW or modulated (BSM, some automatic door openers). Another one of their patent claims is to be able to detect a radar gun powering up, which would mean instant detection of IO/QT/POP.

On the hardware end they have a patented design that adds LNA's to X/Ku, and K/Ka bands, which means finally juicing the range on the V1. This should bring it up to top tier status again, even if it's still not #1. Personally K-band is weak for me currently in my terrain, so extra sensitivity and better filtering would be welcome.

I don't see GPS being integrated into the V1 anytime soon due to existing patents and years of MV talking negatively about GPS lockouts. Instead I think he'll continue to let 3rd parties solve that problem, currently with apps and once the Escort patents expires you'll surely see GPS accessories become available that will be "set it and forget it". There's always Savvy too for speed based muting.

I guess it really depends on what people are looking for in a radar detector. For some the V1 in it's current form is fine, for others it's not. I don't think it's feasible for VR to solve all problems today on their own without licensing GPS patents from Escort (which seems unlikely), so an app/accessories will still be needed by some in the next revision.
 

fireparamed

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Hard to say why Mike does anything he does. He doesn't explain it and we have dozens of threads speculating on every possible scenario of why the V1 has been out of stock for 11 months when it seems like he had a million different better alternatives.

Instead of looking at the marketing or others speculative opinions which are irrelevant, it's much more productive to focus on your needs and forget everything else.

What are your expectations and have you done any research on how it meets those expectations? If you are interested in a company that you want to be media savvy in their communication or a company that spits out press releases as quickly as it rehashes products then Valentine is not for you.

It's unlike any other product on the market so the learning curve is higher and the experience is potentially even better. If you find it passes some of your tests then try it for yourself and ask questions from those who actually use it daily.
I guess that's why I posted on here. My current needs are something that doesn't need a phone to do all of the things that other RD's can do. It will ultimately be a deal breaker for me if I need use an android phone to get the "premium experience" of the V1. I could care less about press releases, fancy websites, media savvy etc. I would be excited to at least try JBV1 if it was available on Iphone just for the simple reason of how incredible the app sounds from all of you. I wish it was an option.

I don't care how long it's taken to come to market, or the trade in value of loyalty programs. I appreciate the loyalty of V1 users. You can tell a lot about a device by the way people defend it. In this case religiously. :)

I am hoping and waiting to see, if the new model would give any hope of being able to do the same things within reason that other RD's are currently doing without an app. I guess I will have to wait and see.

Also, that's the reason I posted on the Valentine forum was to get answers from experienced users, not "speculative opinions" per say.

My ultimate questions were: Will it work as good as other RD's without an app? Am I getting the full value of the device if I have to run it standalone? I figure that the folks on here can help with those questions better than anyone else. (And some background of what Mike does and why because I don't know the history....so I guess that is speculative. For example, I guess I didn't know the history of the GPS patent and royalties). And also at the same time asking about historical V1 experiences without the app and how they compare to other RD's.
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Only time will tell what's in store for the next V1 revision.

The patents have some interesting hints though, my personal favorite being:

"For example, as described earlier, a sweep of all four bands can be accomplished in about 1 ms and, thus, a sweep for both the front and rear antenna can be accomplished in about 2 ms."

By comparison the shortest duration of POP radar is 16ms. If VR implements the "High probability of intercept radar detector" patent in this latest revision of the V1, it's going to be FAST. Potentially 8 scans of all 4 bands on both antenna's before the 16ms K-POP threshold is met and a decision needs to be made to alert or not, which may be high enough of a scan rate to also determine if a signal is CW or modulated (BSM, some automatic door openers). Another one of their patent claims is to be able to detect a radar gun powering up, which would mean instant detection of IO/QT/POP.

On the hardware end they have a patented design that adds LNA's to X/Ku, and K/Ka bands, which means finally juicing the range on the V1. This should bring it up to top tier status again, even if it's still not #1. Personally K-band is weak for me currently in my terrain, so extra sensitivity and better filtering would be welcome.

I don't see GPS being integrated into the V1 anytime soon due to existing patents and years of MV talking negatively about GPS lockouts. Instead I think he'll continue to let 3rd parties solve that problem, currently with apps and once the Escort patents expires you'll surely see GPS accessories become available that will be "set it and forget it". There's always Savvy too for speed based muting.

I guess it really depends on what people are looking for in a radar detector. For some the V1 in it's current form is fine, for others it's not. I don't think it's feasible for VR to solve all problems today on their own without licensing GPS patents from Escort (which seems unlikely), so an app/accessories will still be needed by some in the next revision.
Great information. Thank You. I admit, I haven't been reading through the information posted about new patents, mostly because I couldn't understand much of what was being said. Your summation is very informative and easier to understand!

I freely admit, if this is a monster out of the box, I will be very much interested in hiding a purchase from my wife. I have ALWAYS loved the shape and metal build of the V1. It takes me back to the days when even Cobra used metal on their RD's. I know that silly, but it is how I feel.

I'm anxiously awaiting the apparent eminent delivery of the first units to your guys hands so I can see the results.
 
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InsipidMonkey

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Without a GPS, things like (auto)lockouts, RLC/speed cam alerts, speed-based muting without an OBDII dongle, etc are not possible on a standalone detector. The good news is that by allowing you to use your phone to add these features, you get a far superior experience to any detector that has these features built-in. The lockout implementation using a phone is far safer and more intelligent, alerts and lockouts can be reviewed and edited at any time on a map, much more information can be obtained regarding stationary threats, speed based muting can do things like track the PSL, settings can be changed based on geographical area, additional data sources can be incorporated and displayed alongside radar alerts, and everything can be tweaked and customized to your exact preferences.

Unfortunately iOS does not give developers anywhere near the flexibility that Android does, especially when it comes to things like overlays that allow JBV1 to integrate well with other apps. That said, V1Driver does provide auto-lockouts, speed-based muting, and auto-snoozing of BSM alerts, and can be run in the background while you have Waze in the foreground. Definitely worth a try if you haven't run your V1 with an app before!
 

Bloovy One

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FWIW, I once said that a V1 with JBV1 could do more than any other detector under $2500. A lot of "not interested in using an app" people like to repeat the party line that the apps are what make the detector comparable to other offerings but in doing so, they miss the larger point that no other detector currently does what JBV1 can do using a V1.

Standalone detectors are getting closer though. Theia is the only upcoming unit that has a chance of matching the features provided by JBV1 but it will also bring some of it's own features that are expected to surpass the current detectors. Exciting time to be involved in this hobby!
 

thanks

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I as many other users, don't necessarily use the V1 apps for their graphical content. I know that for iOS, V1Driver is pretty much set it and forget it. Once it is setup, it just runs in the background with out any user need to start it etc, and provides you with auto lockouts....
 

Penumbrian

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Posts in another thread are that some received ship notifications today, so some of these questions will likely be answered in another day or two.
 

fireparamed

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Without a GPS, things like (auto)lockouts, RLC/speed cam alerts, speed-based muting without an OBDII dongle, etc are not possible on a standalone detector. The good news is that by allowing you to use your phone to add these features, you get a far superior experience to any detector that has these features built-in. The lockout implementation using a phone is far safer and more intelligent, alerts and lockouts can be reviewed and edited at any time on a map, much more information can be obtained regarding stationary threats, speed based muting can do things like track the PSL, settings can be changed based on geographical area, additional data sources can be incorporated and displayed alongside radar alerts, and everything can be tweaked and customized to your exact preferences.

Unfortunately iOS does not give developers anywhere near the flexibility that Android does, especially when it comes to things like overlays that allow JBV1 to integrate well with other apps. That said, V1Driver does provide auto-lockouts, speed-based muting, and auto-snoozing of BSM alerts, and can be run in the background while you have Waze in the foreground. Definitely worth a try if you haven't run your V1 with an app before!
Good information. I honestly haven't looked into V1Driver very much because nobody really talks about it much on here compared with JBV1. But it sounds like it would still unlock a lot of the potential in the detector. I'm certainly not opposed to tech. I use Waze and a Scanner when I drive for fun already anyway.

I don't know why I get myself kind of put out that V1 lets JohnnyBoy do the work and then kind of gets to take the credit. There are lots of other tech devices that allow end users to make them exponentially better....it's what makes their willingness to open the API so great in the first place. Maybe I'm just jealous that I bought into iPhone for my whole family early on and now I'm kind of stuck with it to keep us all integrated. (I'm enough of a tinkerer that I would probably love the freedom of Android). Oh well, thanks again for the information. I'm learning a lot from you guys.
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FWIW, I once said that a V1 with JBV1 could do more than any other detector under $2500. A lot of "not interested in using an app" people like to repeat the party line that the apps are what make the detector comparable to other offerings but in doing so, they miss the larger point that no other detector currently does what JBV1 can do using a V1.

Standalone detectors are getting closer though. Theia is the only upcoming unit that has a chance of matching the features provided by JBV1 but it will also bring some of it's own features that are expected to surpass the current detectors. Exciting time to be involved in this hobby!
What you just said is exactly what intrigues me about the V1. I read the about the information that you guys come up with off the app and am amazed. It goes so far past just setting up the detector to be better, it has so much usable information. It's like the guys that first figured out how to tap into the data channel on scanners on trunked systems. Them amount of info they pulled out was amazing and helped the entire scanning community.

So when I hear guys talk about how great the V1 is, my first feeling is, ya, but only if you have the JBV1 app, otherwise, it's just a decent performing, hard to program RD with less features than current offerings.

Great information, I really appreciate the response. (Theia could be nirvana for the hobby we have, it will be interesting to see where we are in a year)

In reality, JBV1 could do the same thing it does with V1 with any RD that allows the interface right? So say a detector had superior range and processing speed, the JBV1 would just be that much better using that RD's hardware correct? If so you'd think other companies would be screaming to have Johhnyboy work with them to unleash the beast in all of them.
 
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Bloovy One

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And yet, other than VR and now Radenso, they haven't wanted any part of it... :)
 

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MV believes what MV believes. He's entitled to, he puts his money and reputation on the line.
No one has to agree with him.
I originally used YaV1 because I was curious, and it gave me a simple way to get B/T communication with my helmet headset.
I got hooked on the advantages, and when JBV1 came along and matured it quickly became indispensable. On the rare occasions I use the V1 without a phone, it's not like being blind, more like being very shortsighted and with tunnel vision.
I'm at the point that I will not use anything else unless the cops come up with something dangerous that V1/JBV1 cannot detect.
And, a cheap android phone to get these advantages will not break the bank.
Still, other opinions may vary.

PS. JB is just one guy, he puts a huge amount of time into his app because he has always said he made it for himself and his needs. But it's amazing how he responds to feature requests, I don't know how he could do the same on more brands, with many more demanding users.
 
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Bloovy One

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Good point Lou! JBV1 will still run on Android 5.x I believe but it would be really easy to get an Android 7.x or 8.x under $50.
 

AllenDoc

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Good information. I honestly haven't looked into V1Driver very much because nobody really talks about it much on here compared with JBV1. But it sounds like it would still unlock a lot of the potential in the detector. I'm certainly not opposed to tech. I use Waze and a Scanner when I drive for fun already anyway.

I don't know why I get myself kind of put out that V1 lets JohnnyBoy do the work and then kind of gets to take the credit. There are lots of other tech devices that allow end users to make them exponentially better....it's what makes their willingness to open the API so great in the first place. Maybe I'm just jealous that I bought into iPhone for my whole family early on and now I'm kind of stuck with it to keep us all integrated. (I'm enough of a tinkerer that I would probably love the freedom of Android). Oh well, thanks again for the information. I'm learning a lot from you guys.
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What you just said is exactly what intrigues me about the V1. I read the about the information that you guys come up with off the app and am amazed. It goes so far past just setting up the detector to be better, it has so much usable information. It's like the guys that first figured out how to tap into the data channel on scanners on trunked systems. Them amount of info they pulled out was amazing and helped the entire scanning community.

So when I hear guys talk about how great the V1 is, my first feeling is, ya, but only if you have the JBV1 app, otherwise, it's just a decent performing, hard to program RD with less features than current offerings.

Great information, I really appreciate the response. (Theia could be nirvana for the hobby we have, it will be interesting to see where we are in a year)

In reality, JBV1 could do the same thing it does with V1 with any RD that allows the interface right? So say a detector had superior range and processing speed, the JBV1 would just be that much better using that RD's hardware correct? If so you'd think other companies would be screaming to have Johhnyboy work with them to unleash the beast in all of them.
<Begin Retired Aviation Navy soap box> I got to spend the last part of my career in a 737-700 cockpit (Navy calls C40A). The amount of information there, TCAS (traffic collision avoidance system), Weather Radar, the flight path, the HUD... I always just wanted that in my car, the situational awareness, I felt blind driving, especially living in FL and not having weather radar... But JBVI has that layer I can turn on, and then add in the VVAZE, add in Real Time Lockouts that can visibly see, know not possible for a LEO to enter that blind spot, Better BSM filtering than anything I can afford, and always updating. Sure 24.1 gets me. The Heat maps of places I have found Ka.... Oh, Range of a V1... 2 miles out you get a Ka, you forget about that IO by the time you roll up on it.... JBV1 keeps Ka greyed out if it was an IO just in case. And my last speeding ticket 10 years ago was from a plane, JBV1 has that covered also.... Sure, I have to use a phone, but I truly can't believe people that care about this hobby would go without all the Situational Awareness that is available...<End Retired Aviation Navy soap box>

And I am glad that Jon at Radenso has JB in mind, and I see that potentially as my next platform, if I can afford it... A cheap Android will turn into a TESLA style tablet... Hard to compare things if one never tries them.... I have tried everything out there currently, things I like, things I don't, but I just love my JBV1. BIG BIG BIG fan of @johnboy00

Thanks for having an open mind!
 

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