INFO TMG VPR Head Test

RaggedEdge

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Preface

So I've been in possession of a TMG VPR system for approximately a month. I've been able to install it in two vehicles and test it with a wide battery of guns. Some guns were available at only certain times, while others I had available always. @Jag42 has given me permission to post these results as is, the good and the bad.

The Setups and Results:

2019 Mercedes-Benz GLS63 - Testing was done over several testing sessions. Sensor placement was moved around to maximize performance.

20191214_132958.jpg


GLS63 VPR Results.png


Audi A3 - All testing done in one session. Sensor placement was not adjusted from picture below.

20191221_132636.jpg


Audi A3 Results.png


Summary:


While the VPR head is a welcome addition to the TMG arsenal, it quickly becomes evident that capturing the correct gun algos is critical to achieve JTG performance. When the algos are good, the VPR head helps tremendously. The DETC (Early 2018) PTs at around 450ft on my GLS63 and 300ft on the A3 with regular CPU and G1 heads. With VPR it is JTG. However, on newer DESL/DETCs TMG struggles even with the VPR head present. Additionally, certain LTI guns present problems for TMG and these problems present themselves with and without the VPR head present. I did spend the time to test 4 variants of the Stalker, mainly for selfish reasons as the Stalker is by far the gun of choice in the areas that I drive in the most. TMG handles all of the Stalker variants that I have access to perfectly! Hopefully @Jag42 and TMG can develop a gun acquisition program to help to continue to develop the algos needed to stay ahead of the tough guns out there.
 

Elcid2015

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Thank you so much for taking the time to test and report these results! Much appreciated from a fellow TMG user. I am excited that TMG is actively involved in R&D. I agree that gun acquisition seems to be an important next step! I will always support competition in the countermeasure community!
 

Jag42

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We appreciate all the time and dedication spent on the VPR tests @RaggedEdge We acknowledge we have some kinks to work out,as well as gun coverage on DE and LTI variants. It will take time,but we will get there. We have accomplished a lot in just over a year. Thanks for the support !
 
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VariableWave

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Summary:

While the VPR head is a welcome addition to the TMG arsenal, it quickly becomes evident that capturing the correct gun algos is critical to achieve JTG performance. When the algos are good, the VPR head helps tremendously. The DETC (Early 2018) PTs at around 450ft on my GLS63 and 300ft on the A3 with regular CPU and G1 heads. With VPR it is JTG. However, on newer DESL/DETCs TMG struggles even with the VPR head present. Additionally, certain LTI guns present problems for TMG and these problems present themselves with and without the VPR head present. I did spend the time to test 4 variants of the Stalker, mainly for selfish reasons as the Stalker is by far the gun of choice in the areas that I drive in the most. TMG handles all of the Stalker variants that I have access to perfectly! Hopefully @Jag42 and TMG can develop a gun acquisition program to help to continue to develop the algos needed to stay ahead of the tough guns out there.
Nice and glad the see testing was done and the results provided.
Where you able to have side by side of two vs three heads vs adding the TX head? I understand a lot goes into testing, just curious to the results and best options in all three setups.

Adding, should this request of mine be in a higher level? You mentioned best setup was tested, and I might have additional Qs to what your experience(s) were.
 
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PY004

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@Jag42 has given me permission to post these results as is, the good and the bad.
@Jag42 I applaud you for this. This is a welcome change. I have a lot of reasons why I don't think the TMG is a good jammer system for anyone to invest in long term. And the attempts to hide testing results were one of them. But I am glad you're making this change and becoming more transparent. I hope you can figure out how to acquire these guns soon.
 

Rossm812

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@Jag42 how long do you need with a gun to capture data? I may be willing to lend mine out at some point if it helps improve the product. I have a handful of options. Not a super new DETC but a late 2018 gun.

Of course if anyone thinks it be of any value.... Just don't really want to sell them off at this point.
 

Marty K

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I am sure this would be an elevated topic (probably even Advanced), but I wanted to add my question here, even if I can't see the answer (if Advanced) - curious about what was the target area for those IPTs? One specific or all over?
 

Kennyc56

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Thanks for the testing @RaggedEdge ! As you can imagine, there are a lot of us TMG users looking forward to the extra protection that the VPR head brings to the table! Looks like TMG still has a lot of work to do getting new guns [and old] sorted out. I don't think the VPR head will be a miracle cure until ALL the guns are analyzed, if that's even possible!
 

thanks

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@Jag42 I applaud you for this. This is a welcome change. I have a lot of reasons why I don't think the TMG is a good jammer system for anyone to invest in long term. And the attempts to hide testing results were one of them. But I am glad you're making this change and becoming more transparent. I hope you can figure out how to acquire these guns soon.
I know that since the idea of a low cost LJ alternative to ALP was thrown around here on RDF, I and some had the concerns that it is not just about the hardware, and providing a lower cost alternative.... There is more to it than that, there is the constant software/firmware update and support that must be taken into consideration as well as staying on top of new lidars and algorithms....

Competition is great, but there are costs associated with being the best...

Good luck in getting there!
 

RaggedEdge

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Nice and glad the see testing was done and the results provided.
Where you able to have side by side of two vs three heads vs adding the TX head? I understand a lot goes into testing, just curious to the results and best options in all three setups.

Adding, should this request of mine be in a higher level? You mentioned best setup was tested, and I might have additional Qs to what your experience(s) were.
Nothing about the head placements would need elevation in my opinion. On the GLS, it's a pretty large vehicle, so I played around with the outside sensor placement until I felt like the system was setup for the best coverage possible. On the A3, that is a pretty small vehicle, so the initial head placement ended up being optimal.

You can compare some of my G1 vs. G2 testing with this to see the comparisons of going without the VPR head. Basically, the Stalkers do not need the VPR, they have tuned the algo to take care of that gun with just regular heads.
 

RaggedEdge

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I am sure this would be an elevated topic (probably even Advanced), but I wanted to add my question here, even if I can't see the answer (if Advanced) - curious about what was the target area for those IPTs? One specific or all over?
Target area for all shots were standard, no trick shots. CM, DHL & PHL. In the case of the IPTs, it was on all 3 of those areas.
 

RaggedEdge

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Marty K

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Target area for all shots were standard, no trick shots. CM, DHL & PHL. In the case of the IPTs, it was on all 3 of those areas.
Thank you for your reply!
I must apologize for my question, it was not worded correctly. I did not realize how dumb it was till I was reading this reply! What I meant was if those shots were maybe at the outer edges of coverage in each area. But your answer about "no tricky" shots answered it perfectly. Thanks!
 

Riptide

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Thank you for your time and effort @RaggedEdge
After looking over the results I have come to a similar conclusion. The TMG hardware and the algorithms they have developed appear quite capable; however, it remains to be seen if they will go through the effort to acquire the guns needed to bring protection up to 100%. I hope they do so that they can be a solid competitor to ALP.
 

Eyeborg314

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Are the Truspeed guns VPR? I thought they were constant rate guns? Or is the just the new TSSxB VPR?
 

thebravo

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Are the Truspeed guns VPR? I thought they were constant rate guns? Or is the just the new TSSxB VPR?
Truspeed LR is a VPR gun and there are a lot of variants. Regular truspeed is a fixed rate, Truspeed S is also fixed rate but there are some variations. TSSxB is about the same as a normal TSS just some different features like bluetooth and mapping software.
 

PY004

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Are the Truspeed guns VPR? I thought they were constant rate guns? Or is the just the new TSSxB VPR?
TruSpeed LR is pattern VPR. TSS series is technically a fixed rate gun with some twists.

LTI does sneaky things as evident by others realizing, but the exact nature of this sneakiness is beyond what those who know are willing to post publicly on this forum. Here's a thread of when it was first discovered.


Then the similar issues came up again when vortex was testing although we never did follow up what exactly happened.

 

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