R3 (on 1.50) vs R7 (on 124.111) K-band Falses

aim4squirrels

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The question is, how long does it take to determine where the signal is coming from in various situations? Arrows are like using both ears to locate a sound instead of just one. :)

Then you have to determine how important that speed of location of the signal is to you personally. If the detector starts alerting, I slow down regardless of where I perceived it coming from.

Even with the R7 now, I still use strength of signal over directional awareness on determining when to slow down and speed up as 99% of what see is C/O.

If I creep above 4 bars, I slow down and don't speed up again until after it's shown a ramp down until about 2-3 bars.
 

Bloovy One

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Then you have to determine how important that speed of location of the signal is to you personally. If the detector starts alerting, I slow down regardless of where I perceived it coming from.

Even with the R7 now, I still use strength of signal over directional awareness on determining when to slow down and speed up as 99% of what see is C/O.

If I creep above 4 bars, I slow down and don't speed up again until after it's shown a ramp down until about 2-3 bars.

I get what you are saying. Sometimes this idea of "I can tell where the signal is without arrows" gets brought up as if it's a badge of honor. (Not saying that you are saying that aim4squirrels. Discussing the idea, not your specific preference or logic.)

Nearly every single time this issue is discussed; the statement, "If the detector alerts, I slow down." goes along with "I don't need arrows." That's the key to making this method work reliably in most cases. (I've been there too.)

It takes more time than looking at arrows and knowing immediately where the threat is, and there's an arguable consistency to the time it takes with properly working arrows.
With a single horn sometimes you can determine quickly that the signal is ahead and other times and situations it's more difficult. How many seconds tick by as a person looks around and decyfers what that alert seems like it's indicating? How many feet are traveled in that time?

With dual horns it's always the amount of time it takes to look at the arrows. Done. You don't even have to wait for the ramp to change a little. (Realistically, arrow users still encounter the "Where's the signal from?" situation too of course, but it's really nice to have a direction to focus on right away instead of searching the entire 360 degree view and blind spots, etc.)

For the record, I don't slow down regardless of where the signal is coming from. If it's behind at a reasonable strength and I'm not making visual contact with anything, I'm not hanging around and wasting time at PSL to find out if it's really behind me or not. I already know that part.

If I creep above 4 bars, I slow down and don't speed up again until after it's shown a ramp down until about 2-3 bars.
This method specifically can be troublesome if you have a constant strong signal and don't know for sure if the LEO is in front of you firing backwards or behind you firing forwards. Can't see him either way, Maybe unmarked?
How long do you stay at PSL until the steady signal changes so that you can guess where the signal is likely coming from? I've had LEOs following me for 5-10 miles with a constant signal strength but out of visual range and I knew he wasn't one of those vehicles ahead of me.

I submit that properly working arrows can help a great deal. :)
 

aim4squirrels

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I get what you are saying. Sometimes this idea of "I can tell where the signal is without arrows" gets brought up as if it's a badge of honor. (Not saying that you are saying that aim4squirrels. Discussing the idea, not your specific preference or logic.)

Nearly every single time this issue is discussed; the statement, "If the detector alerts, I slow down." goes along with "I don't need arrows." That's the key to making this method work reliably in most cases. (I've been there too.)

It takes more time than looking at arrows and knowing immediately where the threat is, and there's an arguable consistency to the time it takes with properly working arrows.
With a single horn sometimes you can determine quickly that the signal is ahead and other times and situations it's more difficult. How many seconds tick by as a person looks around and decyfers what that alert seems like it's indicating? How many feet are traveled in that time?

With dual horns it's always the amount of time it takes to look at the arrows. Done. You don't even have to wait for the ramp to change a little. (Realistically, arrow users still encounter the "Where's the signal from?" situation too of course, but it's really nice to have a direction to focus on right away instead of searching the entire 360 degree view and blind spots, etc.)

For the record, I don't slow down regardless of where the signal is coming from. If it's behind at a reasonable strength and I'm not making visual contact with anything, I'm not hanging around and wasting time at PSL to find out if it's really behind me or not. I already know that part.


This method specifically can be troublesome if you have a constant strong signal and don't know for sure if the LEO is in front of you firing backwards or behind you firing forwards. Can't see him either way, Maybe unmarked?
How long do you stay at PSL until the steady signal changes so that you can guess where the signal is likely coming from? I've had LEOs following me for 5-10 miles with a constant signal strength but out of visual range and I knew he wasn't one of those vehicles ahead of me.

I submit that properly working arrows can help a great deal. :)


Oh you're not going to get an argument from me about that point. I agree the arrows are great at assisting in the speed of comprehension of threats, even I've learned that in the short time I've had the R7.

I still wouldn't (and don't) actively speed if there is a known threat around me, arrows or not.

I've heard guys complain that not knowing where the threat is slows them down too much for too long, but IMO so does a roadside disco, a court date, and/or a night in prison...
 
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Bloovy One

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I've heard guys complain that not knowing where he that is slows them down too much for too long, but IMO so does a roadside disco, a court date, and/or a night in prison...

Very good points! :)
 

KnightHawk

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Dialing down to match the Pro-M or Escorts?

A good idea on paper, and could possibly quiet down the R7/R3 to K band signals from door openers and speed signs, but when you run up against BSM’s, you pretty much have to kill the Unidens to get them to the level of the Pro-M’s and the Remote Escort against BSM ‘s.

It’s one thing to have all that range when you need it. It’s another when your crawling in traffic where you can’t speed anyways and surrounded by BSM emitters.

How does a normal consumer do that reliably? It can be done, but how many actually take the time to try it?
That's why I stated in my post that a "very experienced" user can only get the full benefits of the R7. Out of the box, the Pro M and Escort will beat the R7 in terms of K band filtering. My problem with BSM is not crawling in traffic. My R3 will be as quiet as the Pro M or Escort if not too close. My quiet ride setting takes care of that and better yet, it gives me increase situational awareness over auto lock and other company's speed muting technology. My problem with BSM happens at highway speeds not driving in the city or crawling in traffic. I don't have a Pro M or an Escort. But at highway speeds, if I set the K band settings for my R3 at 30%, will it match the K band filtering of the Pro M or Escort?
 

Heywood

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[QUOTE="KnightHawk, post: 1310013, member: 16769] My problem with BSM happens at highway speeds not driving in the city or crawling in traffic. I don't have a Pro M or an Escort. But at highway speeds, if I set the K band settings for my R3 at 30%, will it match the K band filtering of the Pro M or Escort?
[/QUOTE]

No, it will not match the Pro-M.

The R3 will just false closer to the offending vehicle. The trade off is every other k band signal is limited to your R3 at 30%. Your just stunting the capabilities to compensate for the lack of filtering.

The “K Block” setting will now allow you to run the R3 and R7 with less filtering, but it leaves you open for guns that may drift off its rating plate. Still there’s other culprits.

The Escorts are different. It’s not all of them that have the good filtering and good range. The only one that’s close would be the remote installed Max360CI and maybe the max360C, but don’t quote me on that as I don’t have one of them on hand.

I can only really talk to the detectors I do have so I can directly compare them together.
 
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NorEaster18

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I've witnessed new highs and lows (reported frequencies) on K band over the past few days. Have reverted to "K narrow" as of last night.

I've been running K Narrow around here for a while now, even before 1.50. I know it's risky with how much K is around here, but it helps a lot and all of the K hits I've had have been within the K narrow threshold. Although, there's one MASP trooper by Logan that falls within K Block, so I am extra careful around there...
 

knight_man

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So I have an R7 in my DD, an R1 in my every other day driver. They have both been dialed back to 70 on K, K wide, K filter and notch ON, and the R7 definitely still falses more. Especially the rear antenna. Often, I can pass a BSM source and the detector goes nuts after I pass.

I still prefer the range and arrows of the R7. It is easier to determine source with the arrows. Also, I noticed the BSM dip with the R7 dialed down, but the range against speed signs did not change (I have no other ‘reliable’ means of testing at the moment). With the R1 they were reduced along with the BSM.
 
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benz598

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What exactly goes on during the processing of a BSM signal vs a real radar signature? Can the detector tell the difference between radar emitted from a car and from a radar gun? I bought the R7 because the local PDs around me use Ka band only. However there is plenty of K band left Around this state but I slow down when I’m out of my comfort zone. I would not feel safe with poor off axis detection due to the hilly terrain and woods around me.
 

InsipidMonkey

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What exactly goes on during the processing of a BSM signal vs a real radar signature? Can the detector tell the difference between radar emitted from a car and from a radar gun? I bought the R7 because the local PDs around me use Ka band only. However there is plenty of K band left Around this state but I slow down when I’m out of my comfort zone. I would not feel safe with poor off axis detection due to the hilly terrain and woods around me.
Each manufacturer approaches BSM filtering differently. In the cases where filtering fails, it's usually due to the BSM signal looking too much like a real police radar signal for the detector to tell a difference. Vortex has a great thread/video about it here: Why only certain cars with BSM's cause false alerts
 

Heywood

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What exactly goes on during the processing of a BSM signal vs a real radar signature? Can the detector tell the difference between radar emitted from a car and from a radar gun? I bought the R7 because the local PDs around me use Ka band only. However there is plenty of K band left Around this state but I slow down when I’m out of my comfort zone. I would not feel safe with poor off axis detection due to the hilly terrain and woods around me.
Some of it has to do with more than just the frequency itself.

There are some detectors that have an extra chip in it for filtering and processing. Some use algorithms. It’s not something that’s widely discussed or even explained how they go about it.

We test them and drive around with them, but we are not the engineers that write the code or design how they go about it. I would bet that all if that information would be intellectual property (IP) and not available to the general public. Even within the manufacture, there might only be a handful that would know about the workings of the “Secret Sauce”.

As for off axis capabilities of the R7? I find it to be one of the best I’ve seen so far. I wasn’t testing for it, but if you watch the videos I did when testing multiple K band signals test, the R7 was way up with the Pro-M at picking up the locked out K band sign at 90°, quite a ways back from the corner. Like between 350 to 500 feet back with houses in the way.

As a comparison, the R3 and R-Ex didn’t pick it up to start locking it out until I was at the corner or starting the turn.

Not sure what your comparing it to, but I was pretty impressed.
 

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[QUOTE="KnightHawk, post: 1310013, member: 16769] My problem with BSM happens at highway speeds not driving in the city or crawling in traffic. I don't have a Pro M or an Escort. But at highway speeds, if I set the K band settings for my R3 at 30%, will it match the K band filtering of the Pro M or Escort?

No, it will not match the Pro-M.

The R3 will just false closer to the offending vehicle. The trade off is every other k band signal is limited to your R3 at 30%. Your just stunting the capabilities to compensate for the lack of filtering.

The “K Block” setting will now allow you to run the R3 and R7 with less filtering, but it leaves you open for guns that may drift off its rating plate. Still there’s other culprits.

The Escorts are different. It’s not all of them that have the good filtering and good range. The only one that’s close would be the remote installed Max and maybe the max360C, but don’t quote me on that as I don’t have one of them on hand.

I can only really talk to the detectors I do have so I can directly compare them together.
Does the Pro M alert to Honda's/Acura's at speeds over 70 mph or more?
 

Bossdad71

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To me, there is no such thing as being too sensitive! Just like you can never have too much horsepower! Just as you can use your foot to meter the amount of power you put down, you can throttle the R series detectors down. Advanced mode goes from 100% down to 30%, along with K filter and TFS. If that doesn't shut it up, go to city mode! Then there is K block with 1.50. My R1's are as quiet as church mice on city mode with TFS and K filter without using K block, yet plenty sensitive enough on K band! Given the choice, I'd much rather have too much than not enough! The R7 calms right down on city mode as well.
well said. Jane must have written that
 

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Heywood

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@KnightHawk
Not to derail this thread, but you can check out some of the reviews in the Radenso section. Unfortunately nothing on the market is as good. It’s the benchmark that every other company is chasing when it comes to filtering out BSM falseing

A while back, I did a test against a 2016 or 17 Buick Enclave for @cihkal

You can find it in the Radenso section December 2017. I won’t put it here as this isn’t the proper thread or section.

Like everyone else claims. The Radenso’s have the best BSM filtering in the market. Compared to everything else, they’re deadly silent. You don’t have to handicap or suffer loss of range to keep it quiet.

If you start dialling down the sensitivity to quiet the R3 down, all of a sudden, you lose all the range.

Even then, the R3 did not beat the Pro-M in my November 2018 K band test.
 
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Kennyc56

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A while back, I did a test against a 2016 or 17 Buick Enclave for @cihkal

It was a common BSM offender.

The pro-m was on FW 4. I ran highway and every single filter off. Totally naked. As sensitive as I could. K wide.

I had to be right beside it for it to even give me a blip of maybe 2.

Here’s the video.


Like everyone else claims. The Radenso’s have the best BSM filtering in the market. Compared to everything else, they’re deadly silent. You don’t have to handicap or suffer loss of range to keep it quiet.
Really @Heywood ? Whats up with the damn snow in August? Winter will be here soon enough dammit! LMAO! Just kidding! Great video as usual!
 

Heywood

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Really @Heywood ? Whats up with the damn snow in August? Winter will be here soon enough dammit! LMAO! Just kidding! Great video as usual!

Lol. Thanks Kenny.
I moved the video out. Wasn’t really the most appropriate thread to post it.

To the OP.... sorry for the derailment.
 

Kennyc56

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Lol. Thanks Kenny.
I moved the video out. Wasn’t really the most appropriate thread to post it.

To the OP.... sorry for the derailment.
@Heywood , let me just throw this out there! On any thread that I post, you can derail it all you want!
 

RayC

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[QUOTE="KnightHawk, post: 1310013, member: 16769] My problem with BSM happens at highway speeds not driving in the city or crawling in traffic. I don't have a Pro M or an Escort. But at highway speeds, if I set the K band settings for my R3 at 30%, will it match the K band filtering of the Pro M or Escort?

No, it will not match the Pro-M.

The R3 will just false closer to the offending vehicle. The trade off is every other k band signal is limited to your R3 at 30%. Your just stunting the capabilities to compensate for the lack of filtering.

The “K Block” setting will now allow you to run the R3 and R7 with less filtering, but it leaves you open for guns that may drift off its rating plate. Still there’s other culprits.

The Escorts are different. It’s not all of them that have the good filtering and good range. The only one that’s close would be the remote installed Max360CI and maybe the max360C, but don’t quote me on that as I don’t have one of them on hand.

I can only really talk to the detectors I do have so I can directly compare them together.
[/QUOTE]


My understanding is that the percentage setting is not really linear in nature. Like you would get 1 mile range at 100% and .3 mile range at 30% in the same scenario. Since I run in City mode and get good enough range for K at 18% there is no way I would get 5x the range running at 100% as that would be giving me 2 to 3 mile range on a typical alert which is not possible in the areas I drive. Maybe someone has tested how the range decrements from 100 to 40 to 18%. I do know I get very few BSM's and am not on the latest firmware.
 

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