What's the holdup on BSM filter advancement?

Heywood

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Wow, thanks! Every time I see stuff on the RCM, it keeps coming up roses. I really want to buy the Radenso Platinum package. I think I have a car I might keep for many years that the RCM should have long life cycle.

When I do the test, I need to keep the Falcon absolute vertical? I would imagine so to keep the polarization advantage?
As long as they’re the same for each test. It could be upside down


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GTO_04

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If you could/have time, I'd love to see how vertical vs horizontal vs 45° affects reception. I suspect (with zero evidence to back it up) that angle would make a difference in reception on linearly polarized sources.

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We tested a Falcon HR that @protias owns and vertical vs. horizontal makes a HUGE difference! The first time we ran it on an off-axis 45 degree test course we had routine 1 mile plus detections from the V1, Redline and Magnum no problem. At a later test event (different course) we ran it horizontal and the results were depressing! Every RD did poorly then. We changed it back to a vertical and detection range was much better. Keep in mind that when the gun is held horizontal, the kill zone drops dramatically too. So it works both ways.

Now the question is, do LEOs hold the Falcon HR horizontal when they are running a stationary radar trap???

CSC_0581.JPG
 

9C1Driver

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It seems we've reached 'saturation' on BSM punch-through affecting nearly every single one of us on a daily basis now.
Just curious if anyone technically educated can explain why no major breakthroughs are happening with BSM filtration? (for years it seems)
I'm under the impression that BSM units have a unique pulsing, (or something similar) that sets them apart from the real thing? Why haven't the top manufacturers been able to figure this out yet?
These BSM systems are on the exact same K band frequency as Police K band radar so in reality it will reach a point where it gets no better. The best option will be when car makers jump up to 70 something MHz to get way away from K band with these BSM systems. Then the problem will slowly go away over 15 years as these current new cars get replaced. Detector makers have been hammering away at this problem for several years now. If there was in fact a simple imbedded signal or pulse in these BSM systems it would be cake and everyone would have knocked all these false alerts out years ago.

With an unlimited budget I suppose NASA could design a detector that has the processing power to analyze and filter things at a very high percentage. But then the detector would cost say a grand or more. Every time a new detector comes out at 600 dollars people loose their minds over the price. So every company is trying to deal with BSM systems and still keep the size and price of detectors reasonable.
 

Jon at Radenso

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Detector makers have been hammering away at this problem for several years now. If there was in fact a simple imbedded signal or pulse in these BSM systems it would be cake and everyone would have knocked all these false alerts out years ago.
.
I actually don't believe this is the case at all. I think out of any company, Escort has probably put in the most actual effort for this, but even that is severely limited due to factors outside their engineering team's control.

I have significant reason to believe it's simply an area where, for reasons I described in my previous posts, extremely limited efforts have been made compared to what is possible.

Your point about price is 100% accurate though. The LNA in the Pro M is a $25 part, just to give an example. Let's say I was making a new digital detector that had the horsepower to do truly cutting-edge filtering. Well, take a $25 LNA and then add in $40 for a A/D converter with enough horsepower to do that type of sampling and you're already at $65 with just two ICs! You would probably need a $1000 retail price detector to do it the "right" way.

And of course, that's all assuming you had the software talent to write the algorithms.
 
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dchemist

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We tested a Falcon HR that @protias owns and vertical vs. horizontal makes a HUGE difference! The first time we ran it on an off-axis 45 degree test course we had routine 1 mile plus detections from the V1, Redline and Magnum no problem. At a later test event (different course) we ran it horizontal and the results were depressing! Every RD did poorly then. We changed it back to a vertical and detection range was much better. Keep in mind that when the gun is held horizontal, the kill zone drops dramatically too. So it works both ways.

Now the question is, do LEOs hold the Falcon HR horizontal when they are running a stationary radar trap???

View attachment 97182
Perfect! Thanks for the info. I'm going to have to do some more searching on what's going on with the shorter kill zone as that kind of surprised me. I asked the question kind of snickering to myself about LEO holding a radar gangster style yet here we are. That's probably enough thread hacking for now...I wonder if any auto manufactures are using polarized radar antennas and if so, if there would be a way to filter those based on that quality ?

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Heywood

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Wow, thanks! Every time I see stuff on the RCM, it keeps coming up roses. I really want to buy the Radenso Platinum package. I think I have a car I might keep for many years that the RCM should have long life cycle.

When I do the test, I need to keep the Falcon absolute vertical? I would imagine so to keep the polarization advantage?
It’s the same test you seen before. Lol.

They’re all in the testing section.

I test with the guns the way they’re designed to be used. The screen doesn’t go sideways, so I’ve never considered testing with them like that.



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The Camera Eye

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Computing power, horn design, every radar source can be 3D traced, if it is moving, static, height everything.
A friend of mine developed the software for radar equipment for a military contractor.
It can be done, : hardware budget around 2500$ and a lot of research hours.
Asked him to build a system with me, but his wife refused, she is a traffic consultant and does not like speeding !!
 

Buz

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Thank you everyone, especially Jon at Radenso, for the informative feedback on this topic. It sure didn’t leave me feeling very optimistic about a near-term fix. Hopefully Radenso comes through on the next level of BSM filtration.

Now, if Radenso is simultaneously working on arrows.....
 

Choose Life

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Asked him to build a system with me, but his wife refused, she is a traffic consultant and does not like speeding !!
We don't need that type of negativity in our life
 

The Camera Eye

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We don't need that type of negativity in our life
Don't get me starting on these world improvers ..............
She is a wonderful woman but in that respect................
 

infiniti

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September 3rd test.

I didn’t test the effects of TSR/TSF settings for any of the detectors this day.

View attachment 97169View attachment 97170

These were in City mode and we have an idea where that puts each in the sensitivity scale.

Now with this bug that JohnBoy00 found in the K band, could you miss a K band alert from any alert while filtering out a BSM? Well, it would have to be able to see it. How do you know if it sees it if it never alerts to it in the first place?

@DrHow.

Just go ahead and take some shots. See if there’s a difference before and after the patch.

I might have to do the same. Try and see what the effects TSRej has on the Falcon.

I know there was an issue from Vortex a long time ago with the Falcon, but I think that was rectified.

My test results are what they are that day. They were off axis measurements to the kill zone in city mode with TSR off and city mode on all of them.





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That’s high power k band not low.
 

DrHow

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Don't get me starting on these world improvers ..............
She is a wonderful woman but in that respect................
Be careful, you might end up a member in the #MGTOW movement. :)
 

Heywood

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That’s high power k band not low.
Falcon HR is not high powered. Neither is the Raptor.

Not sure what your looking at but I think your confused.

If your talking about Low Powered Modulated MRCD, I’ve done that too. Just not on September 3rd.

The Guns are I.D’d at the top of the spreadsheet.

If you make your way to the testing section and look at my test, you’ll see I tested against at least 3 guns.

Low Powered Falcon HR
Normal/ high powered Bushnell
Stalker Ka gun.


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infiniti

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Falcon HR is not high powered. Neither is the Raptor.

Not sure what your looking at but I think your confused.

If your talking about Low Powered Modulated MRCD, I’ve done that too. Just not on September 3rd.

The Guns are I.D’d at the top of the spreadsheet.

If you make your way to the testing section and look at my test, you’ll see I tested against at least 3 guns.

Low Powered Falcon HR
Normal/ high powered Bushnell
Stalker Ka gun.


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My bad. I meant not tsrrej high and low power k
 

infiniti

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Heywood

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infiniti

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Have look in the Radenso thread. This is getting derailed.


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Link to low power k test with tsr rej high?
 

bjkb1f

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I have a DFR9 and I rarely see false alerts due to BSM systems. I have K band sensitivity turned down to 40%, so maybe that helps, but mine seems to do a pretty good job. I get a fair amount of alerts from automatic door openers, but those are easy to lock out.
 

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