RCM K TSR tests

studio1930

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After seeing the odd results for TSR testing from Vortex, I decided to go out and re-test my RCM installation. His results did not match any of my previous (nearly 100) tests, and I wanted to make sure my installation was solid against K band with TSR on high. Here are my results.

Notes:
City and Hwy mode produced the same results.
K narrow and K wide produced the same results.
X was off, Ka was on (narrow), MRCD/CT/Gatso were off
K sensitivity full (x0, k0, ka0)
Approximately 12 runs were performed during this test.
Two anomaly runs were dismissed (3500-foot detections).

TSR High 1690 feet warning
500 ft kill zone for 1190 feet of warning before the kill zone
26.5 seconds of warning before the kill zone (at 29 mph in a 30 mph zone)

TSR Off added 472 extra feet of warning for a total of 2162 feet

500 ft kill zone for 1662 feet of warning before the kill zone.
39 seconds of warning before the kill zone (at 29 mph in a 30 mph zone)

Test Conclusions:
TSR on high with a curve and slight hills (which creates off-axis) shows that my RCM is capable of nearly 1700 feet of warning. These results are typical compared to dozens and dozens (nearly 100) tests that I have performed with my RCM. I also found that my rear antenna has slightly less range than my front antenna which is due to the glass it is mounted behind (even though it is mounted higher than the front which is not behind glass). Mounting can certainly be critical in obtaining great results with remote mount units, and I am pleased with how my RCM performed. As many fine testers often say, this is just one testing period, and others should test their particular setup to be sure they are getting the best performance possible.

Video pw: tsr
Video:


RCM_TSR_test1.JPG
 

infiniti

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Great data to share with us. Thank you.

Which k-band source? I know that @Vortex was using a low-powered Falcon HR - it's a tough one to pick up and would certainly give a lower / near line of sight experience vs. most of the other k-band guns.

So, the TSR off gave you 50% more time to slow down than the TSR high - depending on the speed you are traveling, the terrain, and the power of the k-band gun, that could be material.

Also, do you have an R3, redline, V1 or other known k-band performer to run the same course?

My questions are all to help me (and, hopefully, others) understand the trade-offs in range on k-band that I'm giving up for the quiet ride experience.
 
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Choose Life

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Its the Falcon Hr
You wont be getting those numbers Tsr high on that gun

You need an 8mw K source to repeat test
 

studio1930

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The gun used was a Kustom Falcon. It probably is not the same as Vortex's.
The reduction in time was 32% with TSR on high vs. off (which provided 26.5 seconds of warning at the PSL - do the math to figure out your typical +speed/time).
The reduction in the distance was 22%.
The intent was not to compare my results with Vortex's results. The intent was to verify that my RCM installation fits my needs and gives enough warning with TSR on high after seeing Vortex's results. Even with a low power K source, I believe that Vortex's results are not typical (personal opinion). Without the same gun, I cannot confirm this, but I am happy with my results and my setup. My tests have also shown that there is nearly no difference in time/distance with TSR Off vs High when receiving an on-axis signal (again, with my equipment to include Ka signals with Ka filtering off vs. high).

kustom-falcon-k-police-radar-gun-f1ea4597712a6dd37af5bd75b561f3e7.jpg

--- DOUBLEPOST MERGED ---

Forgot to mention, I don't have an R3 or V1 to compare results.

--- DOUBLEPOST MERGED ---

Also, I'll be happy to test my RCM against low power K if someone wants to send me a low power unit. :)
 
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infiniti

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The gun used was a Kustom Falcon. It probably is not the same as Vortex's.
The reduction in time was 32% with TSR on high vs. off (which provided 26.5 seconds of warning at the PSL - do the math to figure out your typical +speed/time).
The reduction in the distance was 22%.
The intent was not to compare my results with Vortex's results. The intent was to verify that my RCM installation fits my needs and gives enough warning with TSR on high after seeing Vortex's results. Even with a low power K source, I believe that Vortex's results are not typical (personal opinion). Without the same gun, I cannot confirm this, but I am happy with my results and my setup. My tests have also shown that there is nearly no difference in time/distance with TSR Off vs High when receiving an on-axis signal (again, with my equipment to include Ka signals with Ka filtering off vs. high).

View attachment 74913

--- DOUBLEPOST MERGED ---

Forgot to mention, I don't have an R3 or V1 to compare results.

--- DOUBLEPOST MERGED ---

Also, I'll be happy to test my RCM against low power K if someone wants to send me a low power unit. :)

Thanks again for the data. The Falcon is alive and well in Ohio (among the many torture devices), so I want to make sure that I'm reasonably protected from it. I remember when the netradar first came out...I found it did not provide sufficient warning for my needs against low powered k-band (since I had to run TSR on in Ohio), so I sold it and went back to my V1. The R3 is plenty of power, but also has more BSM falsing than the RC-M, from what I can surmise. I may end up staying with the R3 I have and the DSP setup in my other vehicle, but I must admit the RC-M interface would be nice to have.

Again, appreciate all of the data points for me / us.
 

Choose Life

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The gun used was a Kustom Falcon. It probably is not the same as Vortex's.
The reduction in time was 32% with TSR on high vs. off (which provided 26.5 seconds of warning at the PSL - do the math to figure out your typical +speed/time).
The reduction in the distance was 22%.
The intent was not to compare my results with Vortex's results. The intent was to verify that my RCM installation fits my needs and gives enough warning with TSR on high after seeing Vortex's results. Even with a low power K source, I believe that Vortex's results are not typical (personal opinion). Without the same gun, I cannot confirm this, but I am happy with my results and my setup. My tests have also shown that there is nearly no difference in time/distance with TSR Off vs High when receiving an on-axis signal (again, with my equipment to include Ka signals with Ka filtering off vs. high).

View attachment 74913

--- DOUBLEPOST MERGED ---

Forgot to mention, I don't have an R3 or V1 to compare results.

--- DOUBLEPOST MERGED ---

Also, I'll be happy to test my RCM against low power K if someone wants to send me a low power unit. :)

The Falcon is regular power
The Falcon HR is low power

His results werent typical of regular power K but were typical of low power K

Its the modern day filtering algos that make it hit or miss on a good return off axis

I enjoy your tests and the time you take laying out the results

I couldnt say though this testing relates in any way to Vortex tests without using a low power K gun
 

studio1930

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Thanks again for the data. The Falcon is alive and well in Ohio (among the many torture devices), so I want to make sure that I'm reasonably protected from it. I remember when the netradar first came out...I found it did not provide sufficient warning for my needs against low powered k-band (since I had to run TSR on in Ohio), so I sold it and went back to my V1. The R3 is plenty of power, but also has more BSM falsing than the RC-M, from what I can surmise. I may end up staying with the R3 I have and the DSP setup in my other vehicle, but I must admit the RC-M interface would be nice to have.

Again, appreciate all of the data points for me / us.

No problem. I have several high-end lidar (lizard) guns, nice 34.7 and 35.5 guns and now a nice 33.8 setup as well as my Falcon K gun. I wish I could add some other guns as well like low power K, but I don't think the wife is buying the excuses anymore. ;)

--- DOUBLEPOST MERGED ---

I'll also add that there is almost no K band in my area. I am one of the lucky ones. :)
 

KCsilverado

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No problem. I have several high-end lidar (lizard) guns, nice 34.7 and 35.5 guns and now a nice 33.8 setup as well as my Falcon K gun. I wish I could add some other guns as well like low power K, but I don't think the wife is buying the excuses anymore. ;)

--- DOUBLEPOST MERGED ---

I'll also add that there is almost no K band in my area. I am one of the lucky ones. :)

Let me know if you want to test with my R3 sometime. With work and crazy life schedule I haven't had a chance to get out and do any runs with both R3 and RC-M (not on at same time ). Also remember Leawood PD do still run mostly K band ;)
 

Vortex

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Thanks for the additional tests!

I did some QT delay testing this morning and confirmed that there is a TSR-like delay with the RC M’s K Filter when set to low or high.

How much that ultimately impacts range depends on the testing conditions, radar gun, and course itself of course, but like you I’m finding a reduction in range with the K filters enabled.
 

KCsilverado

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As many of us know already, RD companies are still struggling to figure out the secret sauce to battling BSM alerts and may never have it figured out because some are too similar to real k band threats. I at least like having a detector that can be very quiet if I need it to be. For the wife she appreciates quiet and doesn't drive the same way I do. If Im driving with the RC-M I can change filters because I know what sources (cars) false and doesn't bother me as it would her. Either way im liking the RC-M and what it offers. FOR ME (this isn't true for everyone) I don't see a lot of K band and know the areas where it is used and proceed accordingly. That's the beauty of choices, and thankfully we have more than one choice to fit each of our needs. But tests like this help each us determine what works best for us in our situations.

Thanks both of you @studio1930 & @Vortex for taking the time that it takes to run tests!
 

milkman

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Very Nice. Thanks for sharing.
 

studio1930

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There certainly may be very different results when using traditional K guns and ultra-low power K guns. I cannot say for certain as I don't have access to low power at the moment. Luckily for me, there is very little K in my area and what K there is happens to be big power that is detected for miles. I find it hard to believe that the RCM cannot detect a full k9 signal when it is line of sight with low power K, but I cannot account for antenna phase shifts from the transmitter or receiver without having those low power guns to test with. It would be fun for sure. I do know that with traditional high power K, the RCM will give lots of warning even when using TSR high (even when off-axis).

I agree, there needs to be (and surely will be) lots more testing with high power K and low power K with the RCM (and the new Pro M).
 

infiniti

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There certainly may be very different results when using traditional K guns and ultra-low power K guns. I cannot say for certain as I don't have access to low power at the moment. Luckily for me, there is very little K in my area and what K there is happens to be big power that is detected for miles. I find it hard to believe that the RCM cannot detect a full k9 signal when it is line of sight with low power K, but I cannot account for antenna phase shifts from the transmitter or receiver without having those low power guns to test with. It would be fun for sure. I do know that with traditional high power K, the RCM will give lots of warning even when using TSR high (even when off-axis).

I agree, there needs to be (and surely will be) lots more testing with high power K and low power K with the RCM (and the new Pro M).
Yeah, I wish the falcon were not around in Ohio - https://procure.ohio.gov/pricelist/800345pricelist.pdf;
 

InsipidMonkey

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I've had a couple run-ins with low power K band, it's nasty stuff. Especially when it's close to a BSM frequency. Apart from the ramp up it's really tough to identify, and once you get to that point you're probably already C/Owned.

With the excellent filtering of the RC-M and Pro M you'd probably learn to take K band alerts much more seriously, but I guess more testing needs to be done to determine whether the TS Rej algorithm/filter impacts low-powered K band detection too severely.
 

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I find it hard to believe that the RCM cannot detect a full k9 signal when it is line of sight with low power K

And youd be right
The guys who'd have difficulty is the round the bend and over the hill drivers

Even in GA the terrain was favorable with a similar gun and one time it didnt go so well (Int+) and another time i got 2000ft maybe more or less from an f150 in median trees
This is the R3 K 100% K filter on tsf off
 

cihkal

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Thanks again for the data. The Falcon is alive and well in Ohio (among the many torture devices), so I want to make sure that I'm reasonably protected from it. I remember when the netradar first came out...I found it did not provide sufficient warning for my needs against low powered k-band (since I had to run TSR on in Ohio), so I sold it and went back to my V1. The R3 is plenty of power, but also has more BSM falsing than the RC-M, from what I can surmise. I may end up staying with the R3 I have and the DSP setup in my other vehicle, but I must admit the RC-M interface would be nice to have.

Again, appreciate all of the data points for me / us.
How's the R3 compare to the V1 on K protection?

The fact the M has a TSR high and low is interesting to me.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
 
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infiniti

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Before nerfing, the max360 was amazing on k band and chatty as heck. After nerfing, it was disappointing. The V1 was solid...a great balance between quiet and range. The R3 seems to have more k range without much more in terms of BSM falses than the v1
 

benzr

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So with the RCM s we need to find the
BALANCE between
TSR OFF LOW HIGH
K FILTER OFF LOW HIGH
or is it K FILTER NORMAL HIGH ???

Too [email protected] many detector/platforms !!!!

Brb Going to check now ..

ANYWAAAYS ... we need to discover that balance !!

WE ALL KNOW WHAT THE HD+ s and RPSE s WERE CAPABLE OF !!!

So lets re- discover that INCREDIBLE PERFORMANCE SETTING yet keep our Quietness !!

benzr


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Cbitugs

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Studio 1930,
Where exactly is the RCM antenna located? How far off the ground is it mounted?
 

studio1930

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Studio 1930,
Where exactly is the RCM antenna located? How far off the ground is it mounted?
Sorry, I didn't see this post. My rear antenna is mounted behind the glass of the rear hatch of a 2017 Jeep Grand Cherokee attached to the headliner which makes it about 50+ inches from the ground. The front antenna is mounted behind the front bumper slightly off from center (passenger side) and is about 18 inches above the ground (from memory) which is a really bad place to be when you are in tight traffic or have a tall vehicle in front of you.
 

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