Tested - Antenna behind bumper

studio1930

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I had a new bumper painted and installed on my Jeep since the factory screwed up the original upon delivery. I took the opportunity to remove my Radenso RC-M antenna and test it externally (in the open air) and then internally behind the bumper. I wanted to know if the bumper was reducing the signal enough to warrant an open-air install. Here is what I found.

Detector: Radenso RC-M (Euro Firmware). Hwy mode. Ka Wide. Ka filter "Normal".
Radar: Ka 34.7
Axis: Both On and Off-axis were tested.
Course: A 5.5 mile, rolling hill, straight line course was used.
Traffic: Almost non-existent.
Vehicle: 2017 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland, Velvet Red Pearl Paint

I performed 12 runs (3 runs per setup (On-axis open air, On-axis behind bumper, Off-axis open air, Off-axis behind bumper). The results were very, very consistent. The on-axis results were so similar that I didn't bother posting them. Below are the results for the off-axis (30 degrees?) runs.

Conclusion: Placing the antenna behind my bumper did not reduce the detection range. In fact, the detection range increased slightly. This is probably due to the internal placement being ten inches higher than the external placement. Having a non-metallic paint probably also played a role in the lack of reduction. Other vehicles with different bumpers and different paint may experience different results. I have left my antenna mounted behind the front bumper.

The yellow in the following image shows when the Radenso RC-M was detecting the Ka 34.7 signal when mounted out in the open air (zip tied to the front tow hook). The blue areas show when the detection happened while the antenna was mounted behind the front bumper. The bottom of the image (rolling hills view) shows the detection areas with the blue representing the additional range provided by the higher internal mounting.

Nickel-Run_RC_Front_347_off_IntVsExt.jpg

20170512-0135c_rcm_1024px.jpg

IMG_20171103_210828.jpg

IMG_20171103_210845.jpg

Picture below is the antenna mounted behind the bumper. It is resting on factory foam and is slipped into a factory hole in that foam stopping just short of the plastic bumper. Perfectly level.
IMG_20171104_125248.jpg

IMG_20171104_003038.jpg
 
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Holla

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Good test, I always thought remote radar behind anything you would loose some range, but you proved otherwise on this test!
 

studio1930

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That's not metallic paint? It really looks metallic in the pic.
Yeah, the Pearl paints are very, very similar to the metallic paints. I am not 100% sure what constitutes a "pearl" paint, but Jeep does have an actual "metallic" paint. In fact, my 2014 Grand Cherokee was a metallic paint. Good thing I sold it for this new Pearl 2017. :)
 

KCsilverado

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Interesting. Thanks for sharing @studio1930

Lets do some radar testing of our HD+ units when the American firmware comes out....and they let me buy an RC.
 

studio1930

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Some macro photography of the pearl paint (and a factory flaw that was later fixed).

20170512-0040_1024px.jpg
untitled-0226.jpg
 

hiddencam

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Thanks for the test data. Interesting!

I wonder if a tougher course would show more of a difference.
 

angrypenguin

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That looks really...metallic to me, but testing results don't lie!
 

studio1930

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Thanks for the test data. Interesting!
I wonder if a tougher course would show more of a difference.

Possibly, but I don't think so. I had the gun about 30 degrees off-axis (maybe more) and the road was straight but had lots of hills. With 1.8+ mile detection for a 30+ degree, off-axis shot and also a max course 5.6 mile detection on-axis, I'm pretty happy. I thought of testing some different courses with trees or curves but I was running out of time and gas. :) I really was just looking for a 20% or more reduction in on and off-axis shots to convince me to move it to the open air. With on-axis being 99.9% identical for both open air and behind the bumper and the off-axis showing slight improvement behind the bumper, I didn't think I needed to spend more gas or push my assistant (wife) any more than 4 hours. :) By the way, it took 4 hours for 12 runs since I had to remove and replace the lower bumper twice to move the antenna. Not to mention those pesky zip ties between the bumper and the radiator and 120 miles of driving.
 
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benzr

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ASOFnOV6 366.JPG ASOFnOV6 367.JPG Just the thread to ask my question .... smile .

So will the "padding" cut my detection performance ??
I left about a inch maybe 2" of padding then of course the plastic bumper cover.The first 2 pics are the bumper cover against the car.

This pic shows the opposite side of the where the bumper cover is against the car.
RC_REAR_BumperAntenna.jpg

ALL Replys MUCH APPRECIATED !!


EDIT : btw: yes it is RC Complete and Yes I am Beta testing the Euro FW
I left my Weekend Warrior apart 6mos waiting for this ... Just couldnt install the Net Radar knowing I was taking it back out in couple of months.


benzr
 
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alloy00

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Nice testing. Good job, thanks for sharing :)
 

studio1930

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View attachment 63847 View attachment 63848 Just the thread to ask my question .... smile .

So will the "padding" cut my detection performance ??
I left about a inch maybe 2" of padding then of course the plastic bumper cover.The first 2 pics are the bumper cover against the car.

This pic shows the opposite side of the where the bumper cover is against the car.
View attachment 63849

ALL Replys MUCH APPRECIATED !!


EDIT : btw: yes it is RC Complete and Yes I am Beta testing the Euro FW
I left my Weekend Warrior apart 6mos waiting for this ... Just couldnt install the Net Radar knowing I was taking it back out in couple of months.


benzr
It depends on what the padding is made out of. Radar signals pass through most objects except metal. Glass can mess with them too, but that is due to the angle and the compound in the glass. Foam and plastic should not change the signal for radar. Now plastic at an angle or with multiple angles (multiple bumper curves) and definitely plastic grids will affect radar signals. That is why manufacturers recommend placing the antenna behind FLAT plastic if necessary. I would think you are fine with that foam. Only testing will tell for sure.
 

wirelessandy

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With the upcoming RC for the US and NetRadar ("digital"), this is very interesting to me since I'll be considering both.
 

studio1930

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With the upcoming RC for the US and NetRadar ("digital"), this is very interesting to me since I'll be considering both.

I can't wait to see a head-to-head test of the RC-M and the new NetRadar. :)
 

SpectreR3

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I've always run my installed units behind the bumper. I've never had an issue. Some always disagreed with me. Despite the fact is tested it.

Posted from my LG-H812 using the RDF Mobile App!
 

benzr

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It depends on what the padding is made out of. Radar signals pass through most objects except metal. Glass can mess with them too, but that is due to the angle and the compound in the glass. Foam and plastic should not change the signal for radar. Now plastic at an angle or with multiple angles (multiple bumper curves) and definitely plastic grids will affect radar signals. That is why manufacturers recommend placing the antenna behind FLAT plastic if necessary. I would think you are fine with that foam. Only testing will tell for sure.
@studio1930

Many Thanks .!!!!

Thats what I thought too !!

The bumper is flat where that is mounted, so I guess my only worry now is ... is this metallic paint ??


MANY OF US RDF rs APPRECIATE your Money, Time, and Interest in Testing for us !! :slick:
Thats what I thought too !!


As for my findings on the RC-M ... I had a HUGE I/O save in the Mountains on KA 35.5 Front Antenna and enough Time to lock it down (( car bout 1/2 mile ahead of me got hit)), as it was I/O, but it was a SAVE. :) :) :) .
I have NOT connected it w my ALPs yet, and may never do it.

Luckily no Lazer encounters even though I was in Asheville, NC / TN / GA /SC Mountains and also I-26 !!

I dunno 'bout you but my RC-M is [email protected] quiet !! ... much quieter than my RPSE. I keep the RPSE on my mirror and drive close up to cars to False the RC-M just to confirm to myself it still working ... L0L !

I seriously think RADENSO/Michael/Genevo have found the Secret Sauce Algo Formula !!

benzr
 
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studio1930

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@studio1930



I dunno 'bout you but my RC-M is [email protected] quiet !! ... much quieter than my RPSE. I keep the RPSE on my mirror and drive close up to cars to False the RC-M just to confirm to myself it still working ... L0L !

I seriously think RADENSO/Michael/Genevo have found the Secret Sauce Algo Formula !!

benzr

Well.......my RC-M is pretty noisy, but that is because it falses to my Jeep's front radar (Forward Collision Warning, Adaptive Cruise) when I get within 15-25 feet of another vehicle. I hope that US firmware will fix it. It falses when running 34.3 and 34.7 segments with Ka narrow. Ka filter on Normal stops the falses but I can't run Ka narrow due to 33.8 not being included in the Euro firmware. Ka wide with Ka filter on high does not stop the falses. I hope the US firmware can fix all of this. Other than that, it is really quiet and very nice to run. Very sensitive with 6 mile long detections (controlled testing). :)
 

benzr

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That sux about your Forward CAS on your [email protected] JEEP !!

Just drop Andy a PM here ... Michael is freakin' busy busy !!

I am sure RADENSO would like to get rid of GM Forward CAS Falses from SAME vehicle.

benzr
 

studio1930

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RC-M still working well behind the bumper. Updated US firmware has eliminated the false alerts to my Jeep's radar.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
 

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