The 40 mile range Super Fox Vixen II radar detector

OpenRoad

Must go faster
Premium Plus
Lifetime Premium
Advanced User
Joined
May 17, 2011
Messages
14,244
Reaction score
12,595
Location
Surf City ---------------> Santa Cruz <-------
here is OR's 11 mile detection with his RL which is no longer the king as the uniden R series, v1g2 and rl360c are much longer in most test settings...

This is Hwy 46 between Paso Robles and Interstate 5. Open terrain.
 

Bossdad71

Premium Plus
Lifetime Premium
Advanced User
Joined
Jul 11, 2016
Messages
8,596
Reaction score
13,242
Location
Kansas
This is Hwy 46 between Paso Robles and Interstate 5. Open terrain.
i remember watching your videos when i first started here. you were my hero with the "stew" test, or something like that. at the end of the test it was a road sign by a school or something like that.. crazy how times flyes. not that you're not my hero now.
Post automatically merged:

bob the vile guy was doing long range testing when he moved to AZ with margie. i guess there was a long stretch he was getting 12 or 13 mile detection with 34.7

i think the only one that didnt detect that far was the whistler cr97. it got 9 miles i think. heck, that's been over a year, thank god lol
 
Last edited:

wayne77

PSL +5
Premium Plus
Lifetime Premium
Intermediate User
Joined
Oct 28, 2015
Messages
1,260
Reaction score
1,746
i remember watching your videos when i first started here. you were my hero with the "stew" test, or something like that. at the end of the test it was a road sign by a school or something like that.. crazy how times flyes. not that you're not my hero now.
Post automatically merged:

bob the vile guy was doing long range testing when he moved to AZ with margie. i guess there was a long stretch he was getting 12 or 13 mile detection with 34.7

i think the only one that didnt detect that far was the whistler cr97. it got 9 miles i think. heck, that's been over a year, thank god lol
It was the stew test. I remember it was just the O Redline that could detect there at first. @OpenRoad made that stretch of road RDF famous!
 

RedRocket

Lidar Shootist
Premium Plus
Lifetime Premium
Corgi Lovers
Advanced User
Joined
Apr 10, 2012
Messages
4,860
Reaction score
6,187
Location
USA
Does anyone know what this chart is based on? I mean, are the numbers representative of actual receiver sensitivity or are they based on a measurement that included antenna gain?

Also, are they power flux density?

T!
I doubt it's ever been disclosed exactly how the results were obtained, but do suspect it was most likely accomplished in a quiet room (Anechoic chamber) using a fully assembled RD (including the built-in antenna Horn).

Test R.F. radar source - likely on-axis w/ RD, same polarization & same plane alignment,too.
 

Token

PSL +5
Intermediate User
Joined
May 28, 2017
Messages
452
Reaction score
1,456
Location
Mojave Desert, CA, USA
I doubt it's ever been disclosed exactly how the results were obtained, but do suspect it was most likely accomplished in a quiet room (Anechoic chamber) using a fully assembled RD (including the built-in antenna Horn).

Test R.F. radar source - likely on-axis w/ RD, same polarization & same plane alignment, too.

Never do math in public. With that said, the below stuff is mostly based on math in my head and a lot of rounding. Keep those resulting approximations in mind.

Yeah, I was assuming the same thing, but thought I would ask anyway. The other question I had was, is this minimum detectable signal, or is it minimum discernable signal? My assumption is this is minimum detectable signal, but not knowing the test setup and criteria I can't be sure.

If that is the case then those sensitivities include antenna gain. And assuming an antenna gain of something near 13 dBi (guessing based on antenna aperture and some assumed variables) at Ka that means that the "hot" R3 is something like -110 dBm for receiver MDS.

But, if those numbers are detectable signals at the face of the horn we can calculate some possible theoretical detection ranges. Since radar unit horn gains are not often documented, only the beamwidth is typically in the manual, I backed out horn gain from the beamwidth. I am assuming a 12 deg beamwidth is about 23 dBi gain, if I got that part wrong then most of below is junk.

The R3, at -123 dBm @34.7 GHz, and given the "average" (say something like a Kustom Talon, if it was at 34.7 GHz) 15 mW (+12 dBm), 23 dBi gain horn, (+35 dBm EIRP) Ka radar, allows a path budget of about 158 dB. In theory this is a potential detection range of about 55 km (about 33 miles).

The same R3, at -122 dBm @24.15 GHz, and given another middle of the pack source (say a Kustom Falcon HR) at 5 mW (+7 dBm), 23 dBi gain horn, (+30 dBm EIRP) K radar, allows a budget of 152 dB. In theory about 39 km detection range (about 24 miles).

Of course, to get those distances you would have to be line of sight, aligned, and an optimal source / receiver.

If the numbers from that chart were instead the noise floors then the detectable signal level is likely significantly higher, and the ranges shorter than above.

What is the best range I have seen? On the order of 10'ish miles from both my R3s and my R7s. On a hill overlooking town I can often point either one at town and by moving the detector around I can tell what end of the city the patrol units are at (small town).

T!
 
Last edited:

9C1Driver

Learning to Fly
Beginner User
Joined
Jun 9, 2017
Messages
486
Reaction score
481
Back in 86 a magazine did a radar detector test of quite afew models. I think they used a boat and a very large lake to do the straight away long range test. It was november 86 popular mechanics.
 
Last edited:

DrHow

Going “Plaid” (Tesla S). RDT refugee
Premium Plus
Lifetime Premium
Corgi Lovers
Advanced User
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
4,075
Reaction score
6,960
That's what the manual says for this old Super Fox Vixen II I won on EBay for less than ten bucks,,,in like new shape,,,complete with the manual and warranty card, bracket, power plug, all in a plastic case. It works really well on x and k door openers, but not quite forty miles.

Seriously,,,can the technically minded here explain this a bit for me?

SENSITIVITY:

The sensitivity of the unit is presented as field strength in power unit area (dBM/cm2)

X Band: -115 dBM/cm2 (+- 2dB)

K Band: -106 dBM/cm2 (+- 2dB)

These sensitivities correspond to an operating range of some 40 miles, assuming a low power 5 mw radar. 40 miles, of course, will not normally be achieved because of terrain, buildings, and other interfacing objects.
Yea, since this post is rekindled... Back in Desert Storm, pilots of certain model fighters/bombers were placing Autotronics in the dash to pick up certain enemy aircraft (and fixed radar) that their onboard sensors could not find. well over 100 miles warning (Adversary radar was pretty powerful). I do not remember if they used CM products. I think back in mid 80s during Libya (or other) challenges, they also used off the shelf detectors for certain radars. Very hazy now. But, I know this happened. So, the theoretical range on the Fox makes sense.
 

RedRocket

Lidar Shootist
Premium Plus
Lifetime Premium
Corgi Lovers
Advanced User
Joined
Apr 10, 2012
Messages
4,860
Reaction score
6,187
Location
USA
"...The same R3, at -122 dBm @24.15 GHz, and given another middle of the pack source (say a Kustom Falcon HR) at 5 mW (+7 dBm), 23 dBi gain horn, (+30 dBm EIRP) K radar, allows a budget of 152 dB. In theory about 39 km detection range (about 24 miles)...".


T!
Your 'numbers' look very reasonable & likely damn close to actual. lol

I've only done shorter range (<6mi.) Testing on my R7 w/ plenty more available headroom for greater range distances. Like you, I have the Topo. terrain to make things interesting for some empirical field testing in the near future. Just waiting patiently so that I can add Radenso's Theia to the mix this year(?) at some point.

FYI - the FalconHR doesn't use a typical Horn antenna, it's rather a Patch Phased-Array configuration. Been many years but I seem to recall there were 32 el. all operating "in-phase". Your isotropic number above for the "Horn" is good, I'd ballpark the Patch Array falling short of that number.
 

jestric

Go Gators!
Premium Plus
Beginner User
Joined
Sep 4, 2020
Messages
1,313
Reaction score
4,201
Location
Florida
Yea, since this post is rekindled... Back in Desert Storm, pilots of certain model fighters/bombers were placing Autotronics in the dash to pick up certain enemy aircraft (and fixed radar) that their onboard sensors could not find. well over 100 miles warning (Adversary radar was pretty powerful). I do not remember if they used CM products. I think back in mid 80s during Libya (or other) challenges, they also used off the shelf detectors for certain radars. Very hazy now. But, I know this happened. So, the theoretical range on the Fox makes sense.

The CM products were the EA-6B Prowlers. ;)
 

DrHow

Going “Plaid” (Tesla S). RDT refugee
Premium Plus
Lifetime Premium
Corgi Lovers
Advanced User
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
4,075
Reaction score
6,960
The CM products were the EA-6B Prowlers. ;)
Ok, my mind came up with those too. Maybe I knew that back in the day. Also, RF-4F I think was another system requiring them. Which seems odd as they were used for recon (primary camera work, not elint). A7, and cpuple all weather helos too? Anyway, whichever used them, kinda cool tid bit of history.
 

Token

PSL +5
Intermediate User
Joined
May 28, 2017
Messages
452
Reaction score
1,456
Location
Mojave Desert, CA, USA
The CM products were the EA-6B Prowlers. ;)

Joking aside, I have been in more than one EA-6B with an AOR police scanner mounted at ECMO-3.

As for COTS radar detectors in military aircraft, I heard a rumor, that I could never confirm, that A-10's did do this at one point during DS. Since they had the APR-69 on board I found it hard to believe.

T!
 

Discord Server

Latest threads

Forum statistics

Threads
92,193
Messages
1,404,929
Members
23,399
Latest member
Born2fish
Top