Handling LEO encounters

ersin

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So, GoDuke was alluding to this in the thread about goals and objectives. I figured I'd go ahead and post what I have. I'd like to make this part of the wiki, or at least a sticky. The information comes from reading all kinds of advice on the Internet as well as from a few videos made by lawyers and some of my own experience. I've tried to clarify and codify all of this information and here's what I have. What do you guys think?

Handling LEO Encounters
===============

1. DO NOT TALK.
• You are not required to answer all LEO questions. Say as little as possible.
• Do not admit to anything.
• Do not lie, but do not volunteer any information either.
• Do not ever talk to an LEO about countermeasure topics.
• Do not ask an LEO to test your countermeasures.

2. Be Respectful.
• LEOs are human, but believe they are above human and the law. Remember this mentality; if you contradict this you will be punished.
• Act contrite, scared and/or nervous.
• Do not lose your patience nor temper.
• Do not argue, save it for court (and get a lawyer).
• Do not act provocative, blase, nor cocky.
• Do not ever touch an LEO.

3. Do not give up your rights.
• Do not consent to searches. Say “I do not consent to searches.”
• Do not expose yourself (i.e. don’t allow an articulable reason, or reasonable
suspicion for searching, and don’t alarm the LEO).
– Vehicle should be in good working order.
– Vehicle interior should be clean, no clutter.
– Turn interior lights on.
– Put hands on steering wheel and wait until the LEO asks for documents.
– Notify the LEO at once if carrying a weapon (legally, of course).
– Ask, "Can you show cause to detain me, or am I free to go?", then go if you are. Do not hang around.

4. Kill all countermeasures during a traffic stop.
• If you have multiple electronic countermeasures, consider a CM master switch.
• Take countermeasures down out of sight if possible.
• But do this early, while not letting the LEO see you do this.
• Do not forget to deploy and turn them back on after you’re on your way.

5. Report LEO misconduct.
• In-car cameras and mic recordings may help.
• Generally, despite what an LEO tells you, the courts seem to uphold your
right to record audio and video in public in most states. It may be best to
have recorders placed stealthily. Get advice from an attorney first.
• There are rules for handling evidence so get in touch with an attorney ASAP
regarding legally useful recordings.


Cheers,

Ersin
 
Last edited:

V1Jake

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Well put and thanks.

yXusf2FLB71phYkEoxmzTwXeGGSeC6a3.gif
 

GoDuke

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Good writeup Ersin

---------- Post added at 11:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 AM ----------

Do not lose your patience nor temper.
• Do not argue, save it for court (and get a lawyer).
This is where most people fall off the wagon
 

ersin

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If there are no objections, could one of the mods or admins move this to a sticky in one of the general or beginner sections? Or even make it part of the wiki? Thanks.


Cheers,

Ersin
 

Salty

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If there are no objections, could one of the mods or admins move this to a sticky in one of the general or beginner sections? Or even make it part of the wiki? Thanks.


Cheers,

Ersin
No. Just kidding. ;) Good idea Ersin.

---------- Post added at 12:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:15 PM ----------

I wouldn't act scared or nervous though. Some may think you are trying to hide something if you do.
 

codesplice

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I wouldn't act scared or nervous though. Some may think you are trying to hide something if you do.
Generally speaking, it shouldn't really be an act. It should be a natural reaction to finding yourself the object of an LEOs undivided attention.

I think the better advice is to just not act like you're not nervous.
 

ersin

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Generally speaking, it shouldn't really be an act. It should be a natural reaction to finding yourself the object of an LEOs undivided attention.

I think the better advice is to just not act like you're not nervous.
Put yourself in the LEOs shoes. Would you rather see the driver be a little afraid of you, or act cocky and like he knows the law better than you? (Irregardless of the fact that the driver actually may know more about the law then the LEO.) I feel it is better to act contrite and a little bit afraid of the LEO than the other ways of behaving. I think it goes well to stroke the ego of the LEO. Better chance of getting let off, no?


Cheers.
 

Salty

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Put yourself in the LEOs shoes. Would you rather see the driver be a little afraid of you, or act cocky and like he knows the law better than you? (Irregardless of the fact that the driver actually may know more about the law then the LEO.) I feel it is better to act contrite and a little bit afraid of the LEO than the other ways of behaving. I think it goes well to stroke the ego of the LEO. Better chance of getting let off, no?


Cheers.
I'm surprised to hear this coming from you. Why does anyone need to be afraid of police? I'm not and I make it be known that I'm not. Not by being cocky or arrogant, but showing them I have nothing to hide, and am not nervous or afraid of them.
 

ersin

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I'm surprised to hear this coming from you. Why does anyone need to be afraid of police? I'm not and I make it be known that I'm not. Not by being cocky or arrogant, but showing them I have nothing to hide, and am not nervous or afraid of them.
I'm not saying be afraid; I'm saying act afraid. Perhaps, "afraid" is too strong. But "nervous" fits, I think. The idea is to give them a false sense of security, or of superiority. I don't want the LEOs thinking I know more than them. Let them make the mistakes.


Cheers.
 

ersin

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I made a change in the part where you need to ask "Am I free to go?", I believe it will sit better, especially if being recorded, if you say "Can you show cause to detain me, or am I free to go?"


Cheers.
 

protias

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I made a change in the part where you need to ask "Am I free to go?", I believe it will sit better, especially if being recorded, if you say "Can you show cause to detain me, or am I free to go?"


Cheers.
Another way to ask that is, "Am I being detained?" or "Why am I being detained?"
 

drewdownkali

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"Notify the LEO at once if carrying a weapon (legally, of course)." ummm. No, I don't think so. Depending on state I would guess. But as far as I know, not in Washington.
 

swampbread

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"Notify the LEO at once if carrying a weapon (legally, of course)." ummm. No, I don't think so. Depending on state I would guess. But as far as I know, not in Washington.
Whether or not it's legally required is a different matter than whether or not it's a good idea.
 

drewdownkali

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Whether or not it's legally required is a different matter than whether or not it's a good idea.
Well if you tell him you have your gun, he's gonna wanna search. Lot harder to refuse search when you have a gun. Don't volunteer info.

---------- Post added at 02:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:12 AM ----------

 

GoDuke

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Well if you tell him you have your gun, he's gonna wanna search. Lot harder to refuse search when you have a gun. Don't volunteer info.

---------- Post added at 02:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:12 AM ----------

Disclosing you have a firearm is not PC to search your car. You've broken no law. If he asks you for the firearm, give it to him. If he asks if he can retrieve it say yes and tell him where It is but you don't consent to any search
 

protias

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Disclosing you have a firearm is not PC to search your car. You've broken no law. If he asks you for the firearm, give it to him. If he asks if he can retrieve it say yes and tell him where It is but you don't consent to any search
OH requires you to notify, let's see how well that worked out for this gentleman:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kassP7zI0qc

A lot of cops are fine with law abiding citizens carrying, but it is these types of cops I'm truly afraid of.
 

oldcelt

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That cop should have his gun and badge taken away. He was way out of line (and incompetent) even before he became aware of the pistol. The icing on the cake is him saying he should have "executed" the driver. Complete mental instability.
 

protias

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That cop should have his gun and badge taken away. He was way out of line (and incompetent) even before he became aware of the pistol. The icing on the cake is him saying he should have "executed" the driver. Complete mental instability.
He was fired but tried to get his job back. :argh:

http://www.cantonrep.com/x2105837634/Fired-Canton-officer-Daniel-Harless-wins-back-his-job

Still got $40,000 from the city for some ****ing reason. He shouldn't have seen one cent and should have been thrown in prison!

http://www.cantonrep.com/article/20131105/NEWS/131109669
 

speeddemon

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IF they ask answer honestly but do not volunteer any other info.
 

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