NO WAY will 50% of new cars sold in U.S. be EVs by 2030 !

STS-134

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Good news and bad news: https://electrek.co/2021/09/11/dems-propose-new-electric-car-rebate-tesla-disadvantage/

The good news: Congress is considering removing the 200k vehicle cap to the EV rebate program, which would make Tesla eligible for rebates again.

The bad news: there's a proposed $4500 rebate on top of the $7500 rebate for...get this...buying a car manufactured in the US by unionized employees. WTF?!? I mean, I can understand why Congress would want to encourage people to buy US made cars but why does it matter whether the employees who built the thing were part of a union or not? The employees at Tesla's Fremont factory are making vehicles that ultimately stop the burning of fossil fuels just as well as the ones that come out of GM and Ford. They'd better take that idiotic rust belt pork barrel provision out of the bill before it goes for a final vote.

And then there's this: https://www.businessinsider.com/for...ng-pickup-truck-frunk-coolest-features-2021-9
That's the biggest frunk I've ever seen! Much more useful than the frunk in my Tesla, which can hold a couple of grocery bags at most. And I wonder if this would make it easier to install ALPs on the F-150 Lightning than on a regular F-150. Hmmm...
 

Fireball

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What specifically does “updated” mean to you?
To bring up to date. I look forward to your superior mind correcting my poorly written definition! Now TELL ME HOW IT REALLY IS!!!
 

Fireball

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OK, how? What makes it not up to date today, and what would being up to date entail or look like? It's a serious question.
No thanks.
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A step further towards generating the power needed to run an all-electric nation - new, more powerful magnets for a fusion reactor.
 
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CobawLT2010

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Good news and bad news: https://electrek.co/2021/09/11/dems-propose-new-electric-car-rebate-tesla-disadvantage/

The good news: Congress is considering removing the 200k vehicle cap to the EV rebate program, which would make Tesla eligible for rebates again.

The bad news: there's a proposed $4500 rebate on top of the $7500 rebate for...get this...buying a car manufactured in the US by unionized employees. WTF?!? I mean, I can understand why Congress would want to encourage people to buy US made cars but why does it matter whether the employees who built the thing were part of a union or not? The employees at Tesla's Fremont factory are making vehicles that ultimately stop the burning of fossil fuels just as well as the ones that come out of GM and Ford. They'd better take that idiotic rust belt pork barrel provision out of the bill before it goes for a final vote.

And then there's this: https://www.businessinsider.com/for...ng-pickup-truck-frunk-coolest-features-2021-9
That's the biggest frunk I've ever seen! Much more useful than the frunk in my Tesla, which can hold a couple of grocery bags at most. And I wonder if this would make it easier to install ALPs on the F-150 Lightning than on a regular F-150. Hmmm...
How about we stop this insanity and incentivize companies to find a way to make their product cheaper instead of using the government as a pawn to sell their cars using everyone’s taxpayers money? Oh wait that’s called the open market…
 

STS-134

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How about we stop this insanity and incentivize companies to find a way to make their product cheaper instead of using the government as a pawn to sell their cars using everyone’s taxpayers money? Oh wait that’s called the open market…
How does this tax credit discourage car companies from making their product cheaper? The cheaper they make it (BOM cost + labor to assemble), the more profit they can make. If Tesla can make their cars 20% cheaper to build, all else being the same, it doesn't change people's willingness to pay for their cars. It simply increases their margins, and thus, their profits. So I think companies are still incentivized to make these products as cheap as they can.
 

CobawLT2010

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How does this tax credit discourage car companies from making their product cheaper? The cheaper they make it (BOM cost + labor to assemble), the more profit they can make. If Tesla can make their cars 20% cheaper to build, all else being the same, it doesn't change people's willingness to pay for their cars. It simply increases their margins, and thus, their profits. So I think companies are still incentivized to make these products as cheap as they can.
 

CobawLT2010

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STS-134

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I'm pretty sure Tesla can stand on its own without any tax credits (and at the federal level, it has been for the past few years). But what about startup companies like Lucid and Rivian? I agree that the tax credit money could be spent more efficiently but just a few posts back you were complaining about EV companies "using the government as a pawn" and you wanted the "open market" to decide things. In which case, we should get rid of all of this crap: https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fa...-closer-look-at-tax-breaks-and-societal-costs

And we also need to stop subsidizing big agriculture, in particular (as is relevant to this topic), corn-based ethanol. Requiring fuel to contain any set amount of ethanol is stupid, and corn-based ethanol is one of the most idiotic forms of that type of fuel. Sugarcane-based ethanol is about 5-6 times more efficient to make so if you're going to use ethanol, you should be using sugarcane to produce it, not corn. After the sugar is extracted from the cane, the remainder of the plants can be burned to provide heat for distillation, while corn requires the use of natural gas, and basically consumes so much fuel to produce fuel that the net energy yield is only 1.5 (compared to 8 for sugarcane).
 

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@STS-134. I am trying to respectfully ask you to slow down. Are you aware that you have 112 posts in this thread alone? One out of four posts are from you, arguing over and over and over and over. That just is not normal. OK, normal for you but not normal in the scheme of normality. Maybe I am the only one but 25% of the posts of an innocuous argument is just about driving me away from the forum. Obviously you have strong opinions, and that certainly is OK. I can not help but think however, that you can give your opinions without having to post one out of four posts, especially without having to post 112 times. Please let it go. That isn’t posting, it borders on a need to dominate any other opinion.
 

CPB

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I'm pretty sure Tesla can stand on its own without any tax credits (and at the federal level, it has been for the past few years). But what about startup companies like Lucid and Rivian? I agree that the tax credit money could be spent more efficiently but just a few posts back you were complaining about EV companies "using the government as a pawn" and you wanted the "open market" to decide things. In which case, we should get rid of all of this crap: https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fa...-closer-look-at-tax-breaks-and-societal-costs

And we also need to stop subsidizing big agriculture, in particular (as is relevant to this topic), corn-based ethanol. Requiring fuel to contain any set amount of ethanol is stupid, and corn-based ethanol is one of the most idiotic forms of that type of fuel. Sugarcane-based ethanol is about 5-6 times more efficient to make so if you're going to use ethanol, you should be using sugarcane to produce it, not corn. After the sugar is extracted from the cane, the remainder of the plants can be burned to provide heat for distillation, while corn requires the use of natural gas, and basically consumes so much fuel to produce fuel that the net energy yield is only 1.5 (compared to 8 for sugarcane).
That's my whole complaint about subsidy in a nutshell. It assume complete knowledge.
 

STS-134

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@STS-134. I am trying to respectfully ask you to slow down. Are you aware that you have 112 posts in this thread alone? One out of four posts are from you, arguing over and over and over and over. That just is not normal. OK, normal for you but not normal in the scheme of normality. Maybe I am the only one but 25% of the posts of an innocuous argument is just about driving me away from the forum. Obviously you have strong opinions, and that certainly is OK. I can not help but think however, that you can give your opinions without having to post one out of four posts, especially without having to post 112 times. Please let it go. That isn’t posting, it borders on a need to dominate any other opinion.
No, I had no clue how many posts I have in this thread. I hope you figured this out using some tool that tells you how many posts each user has, and not by actually counting posts manually. Can you show the histogram of posts in this thread, by user?

I do happen to be one of a small minority of members here who actually have an EV, so I feel like I can contribute to this topic. And I'm still learning stuff about EVs because I got mine less than 6 months ago. And I still have zero experience with cold weather and its effect on range.
 

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Maybe I am the only one but 25% of the posts of an innocuous argument is just about driving me away from the forum.
Wait, so an EV owner sharing his experiences and combating misconceptions in an off topic section thread about EV’s makes you want to leave RDF? I mean, I’m not sure that’s a him problem.

That isn’t posting, it borders on a need to dominate any other opinion.
What do you call it when the sum total of your contribution is to say it takes several hours to charge a Tesla and anyone who says otherwise is lying, and to attempt repeatedly to shut down others’ actual contributions? The last 3 of your 5 posts on this thread have been a direct attempt to shut down the thread, with the last two being baseless and uncalled for rude attacks on others. Maybe take a breather.
 

STS-134

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Yeah so, right to repair is important, but you're not supposed to replace individual battery modules. You're supposed to replace the entire battery at once: https://www.autoevolution.com/news/...ck-modules-in-model-s-doesnt-work-169429.html

Battery modules are like tires. A set of tires wears together, and having approximately the same wear on all of the tires is important to the way tires operate. If something happens to one of your tires, you replace all of the tires at once, not just the tire with the problem.
 

CobawLT2010

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Yeah so, right to repair is important, but you're not supposed to replace individual battery modules. You're supposed to replace the entire battery at once: https://www.autoevolution.com/news/...ck-modules-in-model-s-doesnt-work-169429.html

Battery modules are like tires. A set of tires wears together, and having approximately the same wear on all of the tires is important to the way tires operate. If something happens to one of your tires, you replace all of the tires at once, not just the tire with the problem.
Lol, I’ve done this with the Prius and as long as the cells are holding similar capacity on load then you’re fine. It’s likely the cells they replaced with used cells of similar capacity…

Pretty wasteful to replace the whole pack.
 
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Fireball

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It's not a problem to replace one battery cell in a string of cells with a new one - IF you don't mind that the new cell's lifespan will quickly come to match the lifepsan of the rest of the cells in the string.
 

STS-134

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Lol, I’ve done this with the Prius and as long as the cells are holding similar capacity on load then you’re fine. It’s likely the cells they replaced with used cells of similar capacity…

Pretty wasteful to replace the whole pack.
Why would you want to replace just 1-2 modules? If one module has already gone (and keep in mind this was an 8-year-old car with a lot of miles on it already), then the rest of them are likely to go soon. So you spend all that money on labor just to get the pack open, replace 1-2 modules, and then in a couple of years, you'll have to do it again, only now, you have modules with 3 different ages in there instead of 2.

Just replace the entire pack. It's far less annoying than having the car throw another error in 1-2 years at the least convenient time. If someone's gotta open up and disassemble my tranny, I'm having them just rebuild the whole damn thing, not just replace one part and put all of the old and worn stuff back in. Of course if you know the people who run the repair shop and they do your work for free and you don't mind sticking them with extra work, and you don't mind potentially getting another error soon, go ahead. If you have all of the tools to do this at home and you'd don't mind opening up your pack every 1-2 years, go ahead. But most people don't have work on their cars done for free or enjoy working on their own cars enough to make this worth doing.
 
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CobawLT2010

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Why would you want to replace just 1-2 modules? If one module has already gone (and keep in mind this was an 8-year-old car with a lot of miles on it already), then the rest of them are likely to go soon. So you spend all that money on labor just to get the pack open, replace 1-2 modules, and then in a couple of years, you'll have to do it again, only now, you have modules with 3 different ages in there instead of 2.

Just replace the entire pack. It's far less annoying than having the car throw another error in 1-2 years at the least convenient time. If someone's gotta open up and disassemble my tranny, I'm having them just rebuild the whole damn thing, not just replace one part and put all of the old and worn stuff back in. Of course if you know the people who run the repair shop and they do your work for free and you don't mind sticking them with extra work, and you don't mind potentially getting another error soon, go ahead. If you have all of the tools to do this at home and you'd don't mind opening up your pack every 1-2 years, go ahead. But most people don't have work on their cars done for free or enjoy working on their own cars enough to make this worth doing.
First off I don’t consider a car with 97k miles that much or a 2013 all that old.

I did this on my Prius multiple times. (Out of my personal garage not the shop). Yes, you’ll likely be opening it up again in a few years. It’s about choice… not about convenience. It’s about what’s best for the environment. The question you should be asking is which requires more energy? Repairing the pack with replacement modules? Or recycling the pack as a whole and replacing it with a new pack. The carbon footprint on a new pack is enormous. Replacing modules as they go is actually more environmentally friendly. It also depends on how long you’re planning on keeping the car and the mileage and other numerous factors. Tesla should offer repair, refurbishment, and replacement with new pricing.

 
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STS-134

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First off I don’t consider a car with 97k miles that much or a 2013 all that old.

I did this on my Prius multiple times. (Out of my personal garage not the shop). Yes, you’ll likely be opening it up again in a few years. It’s about choice… not about convenience. It’s about what’s best for the environment. The question you should be asking is which requires more energy? Repairing the pack with replacement modules? Or recycling the pack as a whole and replacing it with a new pack. The carbon footprint on a new pack is enormous. Replacing modules as they go is actually more environmentally friendly.
The Prius doesn't have to fast charge, and I'm not to what extent its BMU balances its cells, and what tolerances the BMU allows. As for the old modules, they get recycled and put into new products, and some probably even go into Powerwalls. The real issue here is that all of the modules in a pack were manufactured around the same time and if there were any manufacturing defects that caused 2 of those modules to fail, the rest are probably close to failure as well because they've all been subjected to the same operating conditions over their lifetimes. If I see any cracking in my tire sidewalls, ALL of the tires get replaced immediately, regardless of how they look, for the same reason. I'm not going to risk a blowout over trying to extend the life of my existing tires and trying to avoid having someone manufacture new ones.




 
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