Mega Arrow Detector Test Part 2 -K & Ka

DC Fluid

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Spent all afternoon again playing around testing, after I got the lawns mowed before it rained again that is.

Detectors same as yesterday:
R7A-Firmware 137
R7B-Firmware 135
Both R7s set the same, as per the results charts. Both antennas set to 100%
Note that the camera blocks the rear antennas of the R7s from getting a clear view out the rear of the truck.
All the Escorts had a clean line of sight both ways.
MRCD was off the entire day, looking for consistency in K Band results.

Redline 360c Firmware 1.8, Max 360c Firmware 1.13, DualPro 360 Firmware 1.2
All auto lockout settings were off, all quiet rides & cruise controls off.

I only used radar units which I could easily attach atop my tripod stand. Vegetation was too high and no good mounting locations available where I needed the antenna placed.

First set up was the Python II K Band 24.150.
Just wanted to run some settings and verify yesterday with a longer foliage course instead of the short neighborhood course.

June 6 24.150.png

I gave TSF On/Off a go for a few runs on 137. Today had MRCD off on R7B for apples to apples.
Never had time to add the Falcon HR to the mix, the low powered patch antenna will have to wait for another day.
So we have a tie, R7A with TSF off, and the Redline 360c. R7A with TSF On was close behind.
R7B on firmware 135 was notably behind the top 2.
Basically a draw between the DualPro 360 and Max 360c coming in around 70% of the range of the extreme detectors. I expected this when foliage is involved with the Max platforms, the digital guts don't deal with off axis or foliage as well as a concrete environment.
Overall a good showing by all, the top 3 delivering advanced warnings of the kill zone well before coming round the bend.
M360c & DP360 require quicker actions coming up on this trap, but a sure save would be made.
Videos of the full course runs to demonstrate ramp ups and arrows of all detectors.
This is a direct comparison on an undisturbed course.
I noticed each radar frequency gave different behaviors to every detector here.
I'm beat so any help spotting issues would be helpful.



Next up, changing antenna on the Python II to the Ka 33.8
June 6 33.8.png


Surprisingly the R7A wins this shootout, by a hair over the R360c.
Redline was more consistent, throughout the day, for alerting very close to the same spot on consecutive runs. Showing some reasons to have faith in it's ability to catch that signal every time.
R7A did well here for consistency but not every frequency did it do so as well as Red.
R7B a slight stumble on one run, but every detector here put a beating on any LEO running 33.8.
Traffic could play a role of course but time wasn't on my side to do 3-5 runs each for a better average.
Very tight grouping here.
However.... you will notice the DualPro only has one run. I had a malfunction of the front antenna during testing, when I went to do a second run, no front antenna. No amount of reboots did anything to bring it back. Thought I was Fuched with my newest detector only days old. Watch the videos of me testing and trying to resuscitate.
More on this later, but I was convinced this just became a 4 detector shootout.


Onto 34.7, on the Golden Eagle, antenna tuned by yours truly. (Was a 35.5)
If 34.7 and 35.5 match too closely it's probably because of exact same antenna and power supply, just the frequency differs.
It would be nice to get a real stalker someday as it's my biggest threat here.

June 6 34.7.png


Redline 360c starting to show it's stuff.
Very strong and consistent on both runs.
Hard course with lots of foliage and off axis coming round the bend.
The extreme range detectors do great in finding a signal through difficult conditions.
The not so extreme detectors, are getting to be more line of sight, the foliage has to get out of the way.
The Redline can claim almost double the warning range over the Max based platforms, 8-10% over the R7s.
On a really long reception course (I've tested over 8 kms before on the Bushnell and Falcon HR) that 10% could add up to a lot of real estate.
More warning time but not a save vs. disco dance scenario. Perhaps catching a couple second burst way out there in the upper 10% land could pay off one day.
In real life here, 10% was 100 meters. (330 feet)
This test was the first in two days with a Max 360c win over cousin DP360 by more than 1 %.
Hey, wait a minute!?? I thought the DP360 was pooched on the previous test??
Surprise, a little time out in the case and all back as new for the remainder of the day. WTF? Confirmed working 100% on all bands now.
Has anyone else experienced something like this front antenna loss on the Escort Max 360 platform?
Perhaps heat related? Wasn't hot?
Overdriven by the powerful 33.8 antenna when doing a run?
Loose connections?
This will be an item I will be testing and watching closely.
Like I wasn't already LOL, after all the horror posts of all our detectors these days I can't leave the house without 3 detectors and 3 radar guns! LOL
I'm developing an RD insecurity without probable cause, and now this happens to add fuel to the fire.



Golden Eagle 35.5
June 6 35.5.png


Frequency matters.
Equal in every way to the 34.7 test but for the frequency, we now have the Redline once again winning but by a narrow but measurable margin.
I frequently see a 2% variance between my R7s, R7A lately the winner of that.
Here the Redline gets the win by 4%. 48 meters over 1.2 kms. That's a win by 2.3 seconds, on a course alert that's 62.5 seconds to gun.
Close.
R7B on 135 closed up a bit, but shows some lagging behind firmware 137. In fact it is behind on most tests other than 34.7. Here it's within the 2% of R7A and it's repeating that pattern. Hardware variance?
DualPro 360 with another decisive result over the Max 360c.
In general terms these two detectors offer range in the 70-75% vs the Extremes in this test.
Decent results all around against 35.5 in heavy foliage.



Final thoughts:
Firmware 137 has performed well today, and no glaring failures yesterday.
I would advise to turn MRCD off for now, for more consistent alerts. Yesterday revealed that it is especially negative in effect on the Falcon HR, and simply turning it off recovered performance.
Unless we see a rise in issues reported that would be a risk for receiving tickets, I advise others to choose whatever firmware they want.
Use caution for now, many of us are watching for issues, hopefully nothing pops up.
Arrows are better than 135, especially vs. Ka band which 135 was dreadful. Other useful feature added are worth it if proven reliable.

Redline 360c has done well, no weakness on any band. I thought the R7 was strong everywhere, but the Redline is strong and consistent, which a bit more range available depending on frequency.
The Instant On reaction time is really sucky, and I've had instances where I would have been cooked with the Redline reactions.
But it does help to balance out that deficiency with strong strong sensitivity. Definitely a plus in my province.
However the experience is lacking. Despite the great looks and build, the ramp up both visual and audio, plus the arrows, are the worst in this a bunch by a fair amount.
Ka 35.5 videos show multiple bogies on multiple runs driving this detector goofy. 35.5 exposed the worst of it. (one 35.5 R7 run showed an extra bogey too, can't remember which one but it's here)
I added a few extra videos of the Redline to demonstrate this.
Escort must do better, a side by side video with an R7 or V1G2 by someone will show some embarrassing WTF behavior during an alert.
Fine, it works, but do better. Poor programming here.
Worth the money? Not in Canadian markets with the premium on Escorts. USA, maybe someday when they iron out the issues just described. Lots of potential being wasted here.

Max 360c: Well another expensive Escort. Poor ramp up and audio on approaches. Similar to the Redline but not as bad, well maybe audio is as bad. I had turned on segment 4 for equal comparisons, however I did end up with a few falses because of it.
The behaviour of the arrows saves this detector, I deem it best in class today and yesterday.
Quick to change as passing, consistent every time, no flip flopping around on approach. Just calm and competent arrows.
This detector is more than about range, and it has to be. Overall last place on averages, two days in a row.
Quiet and automated experience is what it need to sell.
Best detector at detecting it is not. But still a real deal premium detector. The world just got extreme on it once the R3 was born.

DualPro 360: Despite some reliability glitch during this test (Yay, I can finally pick on every single model of M360 as finding issues) I think it sort of stole the show this weekend.
Why?
1) It's a Cobra, the name alone disqualifies it from respect.
2) For far far less money that I could acquire a Max 360c (and the Max 360 previous) the DualPro handily out scores the Max 360 on nearly every single test that matters in preventing a ticket.
3) Arrows were so close to the Max 360c, but I couldn't give it the nod as the Max was really good. And the Max display makes DualPro arrows a joke. I did turn off frequency display for a video to shoe a better signal bar look on the DP, and they work better than the arrows.
4) I think ramp up and tones were slightly smoother on the DP, or the display and tones just hide the issue better to me.
5) BSM and door openers are handled better than the Max 360c. All 3 Escorts are close in this department but I think DP edges them out, all without a K Notch, which effectively blinds the other two to radar over a large frequency spread. Maybe the big brothers should learn from little Coby how to filter BSM and still alert to radar.

Well that's about it.
For those wanting to know WTHW DC do with R7 firmware?
Simple. On my motorbike I will continue with R7B on F135, and in my truck it's R7A on 137. (Big help there DC! :hmm:)
I will continue to evaluate them both and watch for issues here on RDF.
So far no red flags for me, nice to know MRCD Mazda trick is done for in 137 if wanting maximum K Band performance.
Happy trails.
 
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Disco47

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We need a way to donate money to you for all of this expensive testing! Great work as always.

I'm still afraid of upgrading to 137 on my R7. I may just wait for 139 to come out. Uniden had been releasing updates pretty regular, so it probably won't be long before the next update.
 

Ionripper88

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Although these results show a great result i think i have a few questions. It looks like having MRCD enabled caused the issues from yesterdays testing on K band regarding the late or no notification runs. Is it possible it just did not present itself today with MRCD off because of the limited runs for this test? Continuing this theory did you perform any runs or have plans to with MRCD on to see if it could also be effecting KA as well somehow?
 

DC Fluid

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Although these results show a great result i think i have a few questions. It looks like having MRCD enabled caused the issues from yesterdays testing on K band regarding the late or no notification runs. Is it possible it just did not present itself today with MRCD off because of the limited runs for this test? Continuing this theory did you perform any runs or have plans to with MRCD on to see if it could also be effecting KA as well somehow?
MRCD has shown both days to have an effect on all K Band radar, but most pronounced on the Falcon HR low power patch antenna. Part 2 runs were to verify stability with MRCD off. The runs in the chart were not the only ones, I had to adjust the course until I got all the detectors in the test zone (not too far or short, with spread out results) which requires 2-5 runs per gun to get aiming antenna right.
I saw no alerts that made me think everything wasn't normal.
Since I had decided that I would be turning MRCD off by the time I got to Ka, there was no personal reason to try runs with it on.
Logically Ka should be unaffected, but wasn't verified.
I will probably just continue testing with these settings the way I would drive it normally.
 
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hiddencam

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Very nice work and thank you! :thumbsup:

Big kudos for doing all this testing and getting us the data so quickly.

Wow that DualPro failure is a worry.

Interesting (and a shame) that the R7 weakness we're all concerned about lately didn't show its ugly head - but that's testing, and these results are another data point for us to consider when deciding which FW to use. From what @Rags has said, the issue seems to be very inconsistent and unpredictable. I personally won't be hauling balls with 1.37 anymore - just out of an abundance of caution.
 

Rags

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Very nice work and thank you! :thumbsup:

Big kudos for doing all this testing and getting us the data so quickly.

Wow that DualPro failure is a worry.

Interesting (and a shame) that the R7 weakness we're all concerned about lately didn't show its ugly head - but that's testing, and these results are another data point for us to consider when deciding which FW to use. From what @Rags has said, the issue seems to be very inconsistent and unpredictable. I personally won't be hauling balls with 1.37 anymore - just out of an abundance of caution.
I wonder if vehicle speed could be at play here. I am finding that if it's able to soak on a signal for a bit, it will alert. For example, the speed limit of where I test was 65 mph, and when I was driving at 35 mph, I saw much more consistent results. Just trying to figure out what could cause the difference. I did note that in the Forward Facing tests, the results were all over the place as well (which is not TOO unusual for the R7, it has had some WTF short tests for me before). I plan on doing some back to back tests of firmware 1.35 vs 1.37 on Ka this week. I am thinking I can save myself some time and just stick to testing with Forward Facing and see if there is a trend between the two.
 

hiddencam

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I wonder if vehicle speed could be at play here. I am finding that if it's able to soak on a signal for a bit, it will alert. For example, the speed limit of where I test was 65 mph, and when I was driving at 35 mph, I saw much more consistent results.

Excellent point! In a past big 34.7 shootout, I noticed a similar thing with the Radenso Pro-M and RCM to very distant, very weak Ka signals. Rolling through the fringe of detection they both would miss the alert, but when "stewed" in that same detection zone they both would alert. The time exposure to the signal made the difference. Possibly the same thing going on here with 1.37!
 

DC Fluid

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Excellent point! In a past big 34.7 shootout, I noticed a similar thing with the Radenso Pro-M and RCM to very distant, very weak Ka signals. Rolling through the fringe of detection they both would miss the alert, but when "stewed" in that same detection zone they both would alert. The time exposure to the signal made the difference. Possibly the same thing going on here with 1.37!
I too notice the Pro M (some others but not as strongly) really getting longer detections if I pulled over to the roadside well before 1st alert points. If slow or stationary the distance increases by large amounts as opposed to driving towards the source at the test speed.
One reason why I video the GPS speeds to show each run is consistent for each detection.
 

Lars36

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@DC Fluid, thank you brother for all your hard work and testing.
Your a valuable asset to the RD Forum and I would hate to see you ever, ever get into stamp collecting.
I feel like buying the DP360 @ least for me @ the price point I paid and of course your pushing me in that direction, was an excellent decision.
Thanks again.
 

Rags

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It's
@DC Fluid, thank you brother for all your hard work and testing.
Your a valuable asset to the RD Forum and I would hate to see you ever, ever get into stamp collecting.
I feel like buying the DP360 @ least for me @ the price point I paid and of course your pushing me in that direction, was an excellent decision.
Thanks again.
It's definitely a good buy for bargain arrows. Unless the R7 goes on sale at Amazon again. I just wish they would fix the M360 sleeping bug and do something about the auto lock outs being so slow on the DP360. I like the display and the way it presents the arrows, and enjoy the Cobra alerts.
 

yellowtibby

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To me the superior reactivity of the R7 easily makes up for the slight reduction in all out range compared to the RL360c.
 

Rags

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To me the superior reactivity of the R7 easily makes up for the slight reduction in all out range compared to the RL360c.
That superior reaction time is diminished in the R7 as the signal is weaker. With weak signals they aren't too far off from one another. And the RL360C is more than slightly more sensitive than the R7. It's quite a bit more sensitive. Its only challenger is the V1G2.

If Escort ever addresses the reaction time in any meaningful way, and addresses the ramp up... it would make a strong case for being a bargain for its price.
 

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