Finished: Instant On Testing w/ 13 RD's on K Band

WildOne

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MASI

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Valentine 1 Gen2:
Results were more consistent with the V1 cable compared to the Escort cable.
I tested in A, l, and L mode and A mode was about 0.3 sec faster than l or L mode. This really surprised me since A and l modes should perform the same. All l mode does is mute weak signals. There's otherwise no performance difference. I even went back to doublecheck and reread the V1 Gen2 manual which confirms this too. There's also additional safeguards for I/O shots to specifically punch through different filters so what's going on with that?

Hummm......

Wild Theory #1: Could it be that the Escort cable delivers a slightly lower voltage than the V1 cable - thereby impacting performance? I wonder whether you have measured the output voltage of the 2 cables. If so, any detectable difference with a high quality DVM?

Wild Theory #2: Could it be that the V1 cable has better noise filtering - thereby taking out some 12v alternator/engine noise that slowed RF signal analysis?

Just a couple of thoughts. Hard to postulate why else the 12v cord might/could make a difference.
 
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TurboDriver

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Hummm......

Wild Theory #1: Could it be that the Escort cable delivers a slightly lower voltage than the V1 cable - thereby impacting performance? I wonder whether you have measured the output voltage of the 2 cables. If so, any detectable difference with a high quality DVM?

Wild Theory #2: Could it be that the V1 cable has better noise filtering - thereby taking out some 12v alternator/engine noise that slowed RF signal analysis?

Just a couple of thoughts. Hard to postulate why else the 12v cord might/could make a difference.
I am thinking it is the other pins that supply either data or mute information, and not the power itself, that are causing the the variances.

I know using an Escort Smart Cord caused my R7 to have GPS connectivity issues. When I ran a power only hardwire cord there are no issues.
 

WildOne

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Hummm......

Wild Theory #1: Could it be that the Escort cable delivers a slightly lower voltage than the V1 cable - thereby impacting performance? I wonder whether you have measured the output voltage of the 2 cables. If so, any detectable difference with a high quality DVM?

Wild Theory #2: Could it be that the V1 cable has better noise filtering - thereby taking out some 12v alternator/engine noise that slowed RF signal analysis?

Just a couple of thoughts. Hard to postulate why else the 12v cord might/could make a difference.
I'd be surprised if it was voltage. The Gen2 has an even wider voltage range than the Gen1. From the manual, it needs 6.0 to 35.0 Volts! If the power draw caused the voltage to drop that much, then it should also drop for the Escort. The power draw can't be that much different.

What I have found with my R7, is that the serial data link on the R7 talking to it's muting plug can interfer with the operation of the Gen2- if the Gen 2 does not have a remote display. I'm theorizing that with the V1G2 not terminated on it's serial line(ie no remote display), the communication of the R7 is picked up on the V1G2 serial line and is interpreted as data. If I run the R7 from a normal non-muting plug(ie another V1 plug), there is no interference.

So, my guess is that the Escort cable may be allowing more interference to the serial line of the V1G2 and may be taking up CPU cycles trying to decode gibberish on it's serial line. This is what you were getting to in Wild Theory #2!

As for the difference, between A, L & l, I think it is just a sparse data set. When I ran my tests, I took 20-30 shots for a measurement set. I didn't have any speed differences.
 

MASI

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So, my guess is that the Escort cable may be allowing more interference to the serial line of the V1G2 and may be taking up CPU cycles trying to decode gibberish on it's serial line. This is what you were getting to in Wild Theory #2!

I defer to your superior engineering prowess! :)
 
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Heywood

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So what i'm gathering from your results is that when in highway mode, TSR being on, is just too much logic to sort through, for quick K lock-ons, and it's faster turning it off...would you agree?

And maybe Auto mode had similar results to highway/tsr off, due to the fact that maybe it's not using TSR logic in auto mode, whether it's on or not?

i'm still not happy with my $$ detector at a second and a half I/O K reaction...but 2.7 is fn ridiculous. as it is i run in highway mode all the time to avoid more of the sudden BSM rampups, but I immediately turned off TSR in my case.

bmb
I was getting the same delay's no matter what I did. Even setting everything to off except for K band, and in Hwy mode.
Honestly I think there's going to be more sample variation going on here. If anything I'd expect more filtering going on with Auto Mode compared to Highway Mode. I'd love to see more predictable and fixed numbers, but I think to get really good data, we're going to have to do lots and lots and lots of test runs to get an overall picture. I'm a little worn out of all this IO testing and didn't realize how much work it was going to be so I need a bit of a break, lol.

So when I see something counterintuitive like a detector doing worse with less filtering, I think that more testing would be required.
In Escorts case... it's almost the most reliable to test it in highway mode. It's that adaptive filtering thing it does depending on the speed your traveling. We still haven't gotten a clear cut answer from the source of just how much it lowers the noise floor in relation to the speeds at any given time.
 

Heywood

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Thanks for the cool data and work put into this!

Just for fun I averaged the R7 test times and the V1G2 times for a distance perspective. Subtracted the R7 average from the V1G2 avg. and plugged that into a time speed distance calculator. So, at 75mph you're only talking ~77ft difference. 85mph is 87 foot difference or about one whole length of a truck (18 wheeler).

Here is the link if you feel like playing around yourself:


View attachment 180185
Cool.

The distance doesn't seem like much when you look at it like that, but it's the farther away threats that kind of concern me. Terrain and foliage limited situation where you might only get a quick peek before your next in line over the next couple of hills. Worse if the leo is moving towards you at the same time.

I wouldn't be overly concerned about 1 second or lower. That's pretty quick. When you get to 1.5 second and more.... it probably wouldn't be the first detector I would grab if I/O K Band was a regular threat.
 

Lars36

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Hummm......

Wild Theory #1: Could it be that the Escort cable delivers a slightly lower voltage than the V1 cable - thereby impacting performance? I wonder whether you have measured the output voltage of the 2 cables. If so, any detectable difference with a high quality DVM?

Wild Theory #2: Could it be that the V1 cable has better noise filtering - thereby taking out some 12v alternator/engine noise that slowed RF signal analysis?

Just a couple of thoughts. Hard to postulate why else the 12v cord might/could make a difference.
Cable for the V1.
So for my V1 I use a mirror tap cable that also works for my R3 and DP360.
I haven't seen any problems?
But then again this is all new to me and I definitely don't know 1/16 of what most of you guys know.
I just beg that none of you leave and work with the radar gun industry.
 

Lars36

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@YelloEye i want to personally thank you for all you do.
I'm sure with out your help @Vortex would NEVER too be able to do all the testing that he does.
From the bottom of my heart you two are awesome for what you provide for the rest of us.
The information you both bring to the table is top notch.
 

YelloEye

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@YelloEye i want to personally thank you for all you do.
I'm sure with out your help @Vortex would NEVER too be able to do all the testing that he does.
From the bottom of my heart you two are awesome for what you provide for the rest of us.
The information you both bring to the table is top notch.
Hey thanks! I've only recently gotten involved in testing. It's been an eye opener and has been a lot of fun getting to see things on the production side. I'm pretty sure @Vortex has had to do way more heavy lifting with all the editing of synchronized video clips. Huge thank you to him for doing all this testing in the first place.
 
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Lars36

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Hey thanks! I've only recently gotten involved in testing just recently. It's been an eye opener and has been a lot of fun getting to see things on the production side. I'm pretty sure @Vortex has had to do way more heavy lifting with all the editing of synchronized video clips. Huge thank you to him for doing all this testing in the first place.
This whole venture for me has been an eye opener.
OMG back in 1995 I just threw up my V1 and off I went.
This is totally amazing to me.
In a few short months I've learned more than just about any time in my life.
Kudos to both of you, thanks.
 

G39x

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My R3 came with spare cups as did my V1G2. Both my R3 and V1G2 mounts haven't moved from their original mounting locations since purchase and have yet to need any attention.
I have whistler cups that I bought and they are the best cups so far that I have had on a radar detector. I threw away my R7 ones as they sucked, but these guys are really good and I use them in multiple vehicles, so they get repeated uses.
 

fishing66

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Finally the Road Scout was a turd. 3-5 sec delays from the front and no alert from the rear. What's scary is that if the Road Scout and Judge weren't in the lineup, the Max 3 and RL360c would come in last place. Wow...
@TonyPHX, are you up for making another video?
 

yellowtibby

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Hey @Vortex with the XP was the BSM filter on during those tests?
 

Vortex

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Hey @Vortex with the XP was the BSM filter on during those tests?
Yep. In general I left the BSM filters on with all the different detectors (ie. V1 Gen2 with K Verifier on) to make the results as realworld as possible. The only exceptions are when I explicitly mentioned turning something off for any test runs, ie. the Pro M's TS Rej filter.
 

spanky

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Votex: thanks again for your hard work and attention to detail during your testing.

Escort has some work to do but I think they will get there.
 

Darrell

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Oh I'd be happy doing that, but my R3 suction cups keep failing too. Constantly mounting and unmounting is hard on suction cups... I keep going through suction cups and trying to grab the ones that look used the least.
Try using a little Silicon Grease like you would find at a Dive shop. I used it a lot to keep silicon on my mask to make an easy tight seal. Using it on the suction cups will keep them flexible and help them keep a seal. The down side is it is a little greasy, so it leaves residue on your glass when you take it down (but I'm sure you keep your glass clean).
Example: Small Silicone Grease .25 oz (diversdirect.com) (a little goes a long long way)
 

DC Fluid

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An old trick I used to use before single sticky cups and permanent mounting tape,
Boil the old cups for a few minutes, and apply warm clean cups to a warm cleaned windshield (window cleaner or rubbing alcohol 99%).
That can restore shape and get more life out of the old ones.
In the long term, new high quality cups....
 

Vortex

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Try using a little Silicon Grease like you would find at a Dive shop. I used it a lot to keep silicon on my mask to make an easy tight seal. Using it on the suction cups will keep them flexible and help them keep a seal. The down side is it is a little greasy, so it leaves residue on your glass when you take it down (but I'm sure you keep your glass clean).
Example: Small Silicone Grease .25 oz (diversdirect.com) (a little goes a long long way)
For testing I only need each detector mounted for a few minutes before I swap things out. Would it be good for temporary installs like that? I'm always trying to make things as efficient as possible for testing and would prefer having to clean the WS off after each RD.
An old trick I used to use before single sticky cups and permanent mounting tape,
Boil the old cups for a few minutes, and apply warm clean cups to a warm cleaned windshield (window cleaner or rubbing alcohol 99%).
That can restore shape and get more life out of the old ones.
In the long term, new high quality cups....
Oddly enough I've tried that too with limited success. Maybe I just need to buy new suction cups in bulk and throw out old ones periodically, haha. I guess they're great for more permanent installs, but not ideally suited to constantly mounting and dismounting.
 

spanky

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Clean both the suction cups and the spot on the WS where mounting with 90pct IPA
 

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