Look How Far We've Come

Rags

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And yet the best RD's of 10+ years ago saved us just as much as the ones today.

But glad we got the extra range since we now have to filter so much.
Exactly, it's like we are able to eat our cake and have it too.
 

Jon at Radenso

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Yeah, I am definitely not seeing this poor range other's are claiming. Maybe I am doing something wrong.
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Yeah, I keep hearing this. But I've yet to test legitimate K band where the R7 beats the V1G2 (both of my R7s also fair a tad worse than my R3) by any significance. Testing against legitimate threats, I fully expected the R7 to dominate since it stomps both the RL360C and V1G2 in distance against door openers. But if that were a legitimate test, the OG Escort and RD9 would be even better than the R7.

One thing I learned during the very beginning of Theia development that I don't see talked of much on here is that the response of most radar detectors is not going to be flat across bands for two reasons:

1. A horn or rf board that is not done perfectly is going to have different responses just due to design flaws or limitations. And even one done "perfectly" (really, no such thing) is still going to have a db or so of variation.

2. Depending on the design of the detector, certain frequencies might fall into the rolloff of filters - especially guns that vary in frequency a lot like the Bushnell or door openers.

It gets a lot more technical than this, but what I'm trying to say is that one detector might be more sensitive at 24.150ghz than it is at 24.220ghz depending on the design of it. If you are comparing sensitivity across two detectors, it really is best to do it with the same emitter that has it's frequency centered in the middle of the band you are testing for.

I suspect a lot of these variables might account for different results that people see when testing. I think if they tested with the same guns at the same frequencies it would be more consistent.

When Theia is out we will publish the response curves of each band for clarity, it's pretty flat thankfully.
 

Rags

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One thing I learned during the very beginning of Theia development that I don't see talked of much on here is that the response of most radar detectors is not going to be flat across bands for two reasons:

1. A horn or rf board that is not done perfectly is going to have different responses just due to design flaws or limitations. And even one done "perfectly" (really, no such thing) is still going to have a db or so of variation.

2. Depending on the design of the detector, certain frequencies might fall into the rolloff of filters - especially guns that vary in frequency a lot like the Bushnell or door openers.

It gets a lot more technical than this, but what I'm trying to say is that one detector might be more sensitive at 24.150ghz than it is at 24.220ghz depending on the design of it. If you are comparing sensitivity across two detectors, it really is best to do it with the same emitter that has it's frequency centered in the middle of the band you are testing for.

I suspect a lot of these variables might account for different results that people see when testing. I think if they tested with the same guns at the same frequencies it would be more consistent.

When Theia is out we will publish the response curves of each band for clarity, it's pretty flat thankfully.
You are absolutely on point, and I do have data I am putting together for just that. For example the V1G2 is absolutely amazing at picking up 24.150, but if you compare it to 24.135, you see a significant drop.
 

DC Fluid

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That is enlightening info, confirming I need to use all 3 K guns at my disposal and test against 24.125 and 24.150 ranges, and maybe other frequencies with a Bushnell tune.
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I wish my 9500ix and 8500 S7 still worked, I would love to throw them in from time to time.

I was also blown away by the stark difference going from the 9500ix and 8500 to my 3.893 V1G1 back in the day. It was a night and day difference. I picked up a pro m as well, but was very underwhelmed with the Ka performance. My OG Redline was better, and while it was awesomely quiet on K, for me the rest of the cons of that detector made me decide to dump it when I picked up the R3... talk about a true jump in performance! It's so cool that we have so many to choose from that perform in that next tier. The R3, R7, R1, V1G2, RL360C all giving that next level while being more livable for daily use than the previous tier (OG Redline)

I can't wait for the next jump!
Count yourself lucky not to have a working 9500ix, I have 3 and all have identical performance, which is horrendous on Ka compared to any newer detector.
K band range is standard Escort hanging close to Max II ranges. Unfortunately with zero BSM filtering I had to junk them and start buying new detectors.
Haven't looked back except for a few tests for perspective.
With R3 and R7 pulling out 22x the distance on Ka against 9500, I throw in the towel.
 
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Boozehound

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You are absolutely on point, and I do have data I am putting together for just that. For example the V1G2 is absolutely amazing at picking up 24.150, but if you compare it to 24.135, you see a significant drop.
Fascinating, if a bit troubling. We have serious threats at 24.120-23.125. I'd like all the range I can get vs Stalker Patrol and Raptor.
 

Rags

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Fascinating, if a bit troubling. We have serious threats at 24.120-23.125. I'd like all the range I can get vs Stalker Patrol and Raptor.
I should clarify, when I say significant, I mean that statistically. Not that it would mean it will leave you hanging or out to dry. It's just a drop that I have seen. They all do this.

Even with that in mind, the performance standings don't change that you see here. My tests are all done with 24.140 with the gun stabilized. If I run with 24.160 or 24.130 antenna, they all kind of fall where you see here. The RL360C seems to also perform higher at 24.150. The R7 seems to be flatter, but I have more testing I need to do to show how that shifts. It's incredibly difficult to illustrate this without polluting the test because it involves swapping the antenna and that can cause the aim to change, because even if the fixture didn't move at all, each antenna doesn't emit in the same exact directions.

The best I can come up with is to test each one during the stabilized state and see if there is a shift in how the results fall. It's not perfect, but it gives us an idea.
 

WildOne

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I have not seen much of a difference between my R7 and V1s across any band, but I haven't looked for it. With the hold time, it is difficult to really test this quickly.

However, in a bench IO test of 3 units that I will be putting up soon, I actually did notice a variation across Ka band that if I had to guess was at least 6dB. That is half or double the range, depending on your frame of reference. This was with a Whistler CR97.

My V1s and the R7 had not shown a significant difference enough to catch my attention. However, this Whistler was that noticeable that it stood out.

Like @Jon at Radenso said, it is hard to design a flat system. For K band, it isn't that hard to design something that is flat to a dB or so over 150MHz. Being an inexpensive commercial piece of gear that is mass produced does make a variation much more likely though. However, on Ka band that covers almost 3Ghz, I have challenges keeping the bandpass flat to within a few dB on expensive(20-100K) non commercial gear over this bandwidth. Trying to do anything to within a few dB would be almost impossible on an inexpensive commercial piece of gear . A variation of 3 to 6 dB across frequency would not be very surprising. However, a well designed unit could compensate for the gain to make alerts appear to be level, but would still pay a price in noise floor and hence detection ranges.
 

surprisinguy

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Thanks for testing! Great results for the V1 - certainly glad I have one!
 

cihkal

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You are absolutely on point, and I do have data I am putting together for just that. For example the V1G2 is absolutely amazing at picking up 24.150, but if you compare it to 24.135, you see a significant drop.
Talking about curves and how the RD responds to different freqs across the bands of interest made me think of these curves form the patent behind the V1G2's really cool antenna design!

Looking forward to the data you share!!


Horn Related Patent V1G2
IMG_5322.PNG

IMG_5323.PNG
 
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viggendriver

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@WildOne did some great testing and I think you'll find the results sobering:( A few of us tested on Sat with 2 K-Band units and a Ka. Max360c is terrible (1-2 sec or more) around 24.150 and not bad around 24.225. V1G2 was complete opposite. V1G2 Ka was fast while the Max360c was still slow. I don't have confidence that the Max360c will alert to a patient officer that uses quick triggers. The V1G2 has problems as well but it seemed to catch most quick triggers. I would ass*u*me that Theia will be optimized for IO and if it is, they can't take my money fast enough. Yeah I know its vaporware right now but everyone is having significant supply chain issues so its understandable. If Ford is parking 1000's of trucks...you know there is a significant problem. I'm optimisitic they are taking the extra time to refine the design but if V1 fixes their K issue...I may have to bite the bullet.

@Vortex - Did you ever test detectors against the Ranger EZ? I'm curious to see if that pulsed dopper signal causes any detectors issues.
 

ILS27L

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Thanks @Rags for your testing and everyone for a great discussion !
Very interesting.
 

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