2021 Audi RSQ8

samq45

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Absolutely beautiful install, but I would not have put the control pad there.

Me Neither, I would find that spot very difficult to see in my vehicle and not as easy to get to as the center. That is where the owners manual goes. But I did find it really simple to take apart the dash there, the easiest dash removal and wiring I have done on an Audi. There are 3 good sized holes for wires already in that cubby, so it must be for polizei radios or something else.

I put my manual in the trunk and used that spot for my ALP control box. It was easy to run the ALP control pad right next to the start stop button - but the ALP control pad is a little smaller then the Radenso control unit. I guess the good part is you can hide the control unit with the cubby door shut, giving it a very clean look - but how do you JTK quickly if the door is closed?
 

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I’m sure whatever I say you will continue to say I’m wrong.
I think you’re misunderstanding the objection. It’s not to your work, and it’s not suggesting your customers are going to start getting tickets. It’s that instead of JTK, which means Jam To Kill, jamming only as long as necessary and then killing the jammers, they’re instead flagrantly jamming for a full 7 seconds—even when it’s not necessary to jam at all, or only just a little over PSL. As @Vortex summarized, this has historically led to turning up the heat on jammers.

A cop can easily write off a couple of seconds delay in getting a speed reading. Yes, even when the target slams on the brakes (people brake all the time for all sorts of reasons, and traffic cops in particular are used to seeing it when people notice them down the road or in the mirrors when people slam on the brakes just out of reflex even if they’re not speeding). Even the best lidar guns aren’t 100% immediate on all cars at all times. But going a full 7 seconds failing to get a reading raises suspicions, and collectively that increases the pressure to “do something” about jammers, making them illegal to purchase, install, and use, or increasing the severity of the penalties on those caught installing, purchasing, or using them. A crackdown is bad for your business and bad for your customers.

You can do your part to help slow down that bad path by educating your customers on that concept, giving them the ability to kill their jammers as soon as possible, and backing off the terribly long 7 second auto kill. 4 seconds should be the longest it’s set to, and even that should really be more of a safety net in case of a fumble.

If you watch some of the dashcam videos posted here, you’ll see kills be nearly immediate when no jamming is necessary (at/near/below PSL), and kills as quickly as possible when jamming is necessary. I and others here have fallen victim to the fallacy that says it’s more important to keep from braking hard—it’s not, what’s important is to get to non-ticket speeds as soon as physics allows. The auto kill timer is only ever a safety net in case you’re rusty and don’t get to the kill button in time. This is the he result of many years of accumulated lessons learned the hard way.

I think it’s important to reiterate that this is not a condemnation of you, a slight against your work (which looks amazing), or any other negative thing. It is purely an attempt to make the world a little better place for you end your customers.
 

Deacon

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You wonder how many other installers are doing similar.
Too many installers don’t know or don’t care. There are two primary saving graces, here: 1) many installers sell systems that aren’t particularly effective and/or install them in such a way as to maximize cosmetics even when it minimizes effectiveness, which may mean tickets for their customers but at least means the damage done to the community as a whole is less, and 2) the number of people purchasing proper installs of effective systems hasn’t yet reached critical mass to bring widespread legal action. All we’re trying to do with this sort of education is help delay that kind of crackdown.


how do you JTK quickly if the door is closed?
You don’t. It’s meant to be hidden away and not interacted with at all, instead letting the system jam continuously until the selected 7-second timer expires. Each time. Every time. No matter what. Even when it’s entirely unnecessary to jam at all.
 
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System

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7 seconds is far too long. You are a good group of guys but smarten up and don't ruin this for us all. If you cant manually JTK you shouldn't have jammers. It's easy as that. Even 3 seconds is too long in some instances.

Educate your clientele (and yourself) before parking sensors are outlawed here as well
 

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Now, that’s a nice install. :love:
 

CHRIS VIBE RED DEER AB

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So I’ll agree to disagree ... to add if anyone doesn’t know or hasn’t read any of our posts because what’s being said towards installers “don’t care” or “do it for looks that take away from effectiveness” ... is now going off topic.. I make sure EVERY component is level, we TEST EVERY install with the Dragon Eye compact, I make brackets for ALL modules, I make service loops and install in a way that even a body shop/ mechanical shop can remove bumpers, panels and interior without my install being in the way. I know you’re probably not generalizing me here but these comments were about jamming Tim’s... Now also even jamming for 3-4 seconds getting shot from the rear could be too long for a really good officer but again when someone is getting hit by the laser and they SLAM ON THE BRAKES you just admitted fault to speeding. Look no matter how we look at this subject everyone is WRONG and these systems should not be allowed in vehicles.
P.S. I care more about my clients than anything else in this world and make sure they’re getting what they pay for. Also I’m sure someone will have something else to say to not agree with anything I’ve mentioned again.
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Now, that’s a nice install. :love:
Thank you very much!
 

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So I’ll agree to disagree ... to add if anyone doesn’t know or hasn’t read any of our posts because what’s being said towards installers “don’t care” or “do it for looks that take away from effectiveness” ... is now going off topic.. I make sure EVERY component is level, we TEST EVERY install with the Dragon Eye compact, I make brackets for ALL modules, I make service loops and install in a way that even a body shop/ mechanical shop can remove bumpers, panels and interior without my install being in the way. I know you’re probably not generalizing me here but these comments were about jamming Tim’s... Now also even jamming for 3-4 seconds getting shot from the rear could be too long for a really good officer but again when someone is getting hit by the laser and they SLAM ON THE BRAKES you just admitted fault to speeding. Look no matter how we look at this subject everyone is WRONG and these systems should not be allowed in vehicles.
P.S. I care more about my clients than anything else in this world and make sure they’re getting what they pay for. Also I’m sure someone will have something else to say to not agree with anything I’ve mentioned again.
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Thank you very much!
It seems like you're missing the point entirely. We don't have issues with your install techniques and testing methodologies. If anything you're getting kudos on that.

We're specifically talking about adjusting the JTK timer on the RC M. I understand you care about your clients, so for their sake (and yours), please reduce that timer and teach them about the importance of a quick JTK, especially when they have a well placed (and thus more effective) install.

It's a big deal and it's why I created a video on the topic that's literally titled "JTK, The Most Important Thing to Know About Using Laser Jammers"

 
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CHRIS VIBE RED DEER AB

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Me Neither, I would find that spot very difficult to see in my vehicle and not as easy to get to as the center. That is where the owners manual goes. But I did find it really simple to take apart the dash there, the easiest dash removal and wiring I have done on an Audi. There are 3 good sized holes for wires already in that cubby, so it must be for polizei radios or something else.

I put my manual in the trunk and used that spot for my ALP control box. It was easy to run the ALP control pad right next to the start stop button - but the ALP control pad is a little smaller then the Radenso control unit. I guess the good part is you can hide the control unit with the cubby door shut, giving it a very clean look - but how do you JTK quickly if the door is closed?
There’s a ton of leg room to keep the door open while driving... this was also done for testing and you can see the display through the steering wheel... it’s also in arms reach to pull the display off to disable the system fully.
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It seems like you're missing the point entirely. We don't have issues with your install techniques and testing methodologies. If anything you're getting kudos on that.

We're specifically talking about adjusting the JTK timer on the RC M. I understand you care about your clients, so for their sake (and yours), please reduce that timer and teach them about the importance of a quick JTK, especially when they have a well placed (and thus more effective) install.
That’s what I was trying to say but someone took it off topic and as I just mentioned this display can be pulled off in a second as the door can stay open while driving.
 

samq45

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You don’t. It’s meant to be hidden away and not interacted with at all, instead letting the system jam continuously until the selected 7-second timer expires. Each time. Every time. No matter what. Even when it’s entirely unnecessary to jam at all.

When people make money off these devices, the good of the community sometimes goes out the window, we have seen it many times. I am sure there are responsible installers around, but most will do whatever they want to drive up their sales.

The Boomer McCloud store around here not only pushes K40, but also tells their customers to just keep driving and don't shut off the jammers. The last install I saw a few weeks ago, their customer could not even tell me how to shut off the jammers - and this was after he was pulled over when the LEO could not get a reading in Feb.

If the MFGs cared enough you think they would say something to these installers, but we know K40 only cares about profit - but Radenso and Alp both made money off this install, yet I dont see them dropping in to tell the OP 7 secs is a bit long.

Also - Part of the reason they post these pictures is of course advertising. The forum is showcasing this install for them to sell more units that are set to 7 secs.....
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There’s a ton of leg room to keep the door open while driving... this was also done for testing and you can see the display through the steering wheel... it’s also in arms reach to pull the display off to disable the system fully.

Its not my car so if the owner is happy that is fine. Not really interested in driving with that door open on my RS, but I don't have as much legroom either. Its a preference item, but I would have installed it elsewhere, although I agree it a very easy spot to put it.
 
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CHRIS VIBE RED DEER AB

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When people make money off these devices, the good of the community sometimes goes out the window, we have seen it many times. I am sure there are responsible installers around, but most will do whatever they want to drive up their sales.

The Boomer McCloud store around here not only pushes K40, but also tells their customers to just keep driving and don't shut off the jammers. The last install I saw a few weeks ago, their customer could not even tell me how to shut off the jammers - and this was after he was pulled over when the LEO could not get a reading in Feb.

If the MFGs cared enough you think they would say something to these installers, but we know K40 only cares about profit - but Radenso and Alp both made money off this install, yet I dont see them dropping in to tell the OP 7 secs is a bit long.

Also - Part of the reason they post these pictures is of course advertising. The forum is showcasing this install for them to sell more units that are set to 7 secs.....
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Its not my car so if the owner is happy that is fine. Not really interested in driving with that door open on my RS, but I don't have as much legroom either. Its a preference item, but I would have installed it elsewhere, although I agree it a very easy spot to put it.
When people make money off these devices, the good of the community sometimes goes out the window, we have seen it many times. I am sure there are responsible installers around, but most will do whatever they want to drive up their sales.

The Boomer McCloud store around here not only pushes K40, but also tells their customers to just keep driving and don't shut off the jammers. The last install I saw a few weeks ago, their customer could not even tell me how to shut off the jammers - and this was after he was pulled over when the LEO could not get a reading in Feb.

If the MFGs cared enough you think they would say something to these installers, but we know K40 only cares about profit - but Radenso and Alp both made money off this install, yet I dont see them dropping in to tell the OP 7 secs is a bit long.

Also - Part of the reason they post these pictures is of course advertising. The forum is showcasing this install for them to sell more units that are set to 7 secs.....
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Its not my car so if the owner is happy that is fine. Not really interested in driving with that door open on my RS, but I don't have as much legroom either. Its a preference item, but I would have installed it elsewhere, although I agree it a very easy spot to put it.
It was the owners request not mine.
 

GregTec5

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their customer could not even tell me how to shut off the jammers - and this was after he was pulled over when the LEO could not get a reading in Feb.
The post linked below seems like a similar situation. The OP doesn't know anything about the light and it does not appear the installer went over anything with him either. Makes me wonder if he even knows how to JTK...

 

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That’s what I was trying to say but someone took it off topic and as I just mentioned this display can be pulled off in a second as the door can stay open while driving.
Sure, I've got that same door in my Q5 so I get it.

In the interest of staying focused though, one last time: For the sake of your customer because you really do want what's best for them, please reduce their JTK timers closer to 4 sec. Even 5 should be plenty in practice.
 
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samq45

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It was the owners request not mine.

The 7sec JTG or the putting the display where the manual goes?

If its the 7secs (or even both I guess), then perhaps some education on the proper use of jammer is warranted. But you also want the kill button in a convenient place to be able to access it quickly - and practice developing your muscle memory so that the LEOs dont think about jammers and just move to the next car (and also don't remember your car, especially one that is rare).
 

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samq45

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Can you provide any proof of this where a person was fined for speeding by applying the brakes alone?
Especially when they see a LEO. Lots of People brake when they notice a LEO doing enforcement. Some people around here drop to below the speed limit right as they reach the LEO.

But this is simply an excuse that we have heard many times before - If you go out an shoot LIDAR a lot, hard braking not as easy to spot as you think - and Jammers are easier to identify. Depth perception for estimating speed requires two eyes, usually one is closed when shooting a gun and the other eye has a limited field of vision through the viewfinder.
 

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So I’ll agree to disagree ... to add if anyone doesn’t know or hasn’t read any of our posts because what’s being said towards installers “don’t care” or “do it for looks that take away from effectiveness”
You’re mistaking those comments as being directed against you. They are not. I realize you’re busy and probably just skimming these comments, but please understand two things:

1) You have gotten praise from me and everyone else here on the excellence of your installation, and no one is questioning that you care about your work and your customers. It’s easy to believe you when you say you do. It shows. If I were in your area I would not hesitate to hire you to do my installs.

2) Setting the system to auto kill after 7 seconds and sending your customers on their way puts your business in danger.


when someone is getting hit by the laser and they SLAM ON THE BRAKES you just admitted fault to speeding.
This is absolutely not true. Your reliance on extended automatic jamming timers is a much bigger problem both short- and long-term for both you and your customers.
 

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Especially when they see a LEO. Lots of People brake when they notice a LEO doing enforcement. Some people around here drop to below the speed limit right as they reach the LEO.

But this is simply an excuse that we have heard many times before - If you go out an shoot LIDAR a lot, hard braking not as easy to spot as you think - and Jammers are easier to identify. Depth perception for estimating speed requires two eyes, usually one is closed when shooting a gun and the other eye has a limited field of vision through the viewfinder.
Or what if you saw an animal on the side of the road...

I can think of plenty of excuses as to why I braked and you are absolutely correct it is a natural reaction even if below PSL.

I further agree with you that when looking thru the HUD you are focused on steady hands, breathing, and a tiny DOT.

@CHRIS VIBE RED DEER AB please when you have a chance look at the video that was shared with you.
 

Maz3

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What an impressive install @CHRIS VIBE RED DEER AB !!!!

I love how you shaped the IR acrylic. It just looks like it belongs.

My personal install has the control panel completely buried for the same reasons as your client. I used a network splitter to breakout the power and menu buttons to two factory buttons on the dash for easy JTKs.

I have my auto JTK set to 4 secs as insurance, but in practice it's easy to scrub off lots of speed and manually JTK in less than that.

The intent is not to have the cup go, "Hmmmm" when they can't get a reading. They know jammers are out there, and laser manufacturers (DE in particular) advertise their laser defeat jammers, so lots of awareness.

If the cops start to experience more and more situations where they are JTG as in 7 seconds a driver is probably past the shooter, they'll ask the government to outlaw jammers for "safety" and then we're all done. This will include your sales and install income.

Not sure how old your are so you may know what I'm talking about... Back in the day when RD were illegal in Alberta (mid 80's), it was an offence to possess one, nvm use it.

So if you wanted a RD you had to get it from out of province. The only thing that changed it was the Solicitor General of the day lived out towards Edson. He commuted to Edmonton, and started getting speeding tickets from the RCMP Highway Patrol.

Tickets were $35 and minimum wage was $2.85. Even for a young guy like I was, flipping burgers, the fine was f'all. It was the points that hurt as most speeding tickets were 3 points, and your licence was suspended at 15 points. Points stayed on your record for two years from the date you received the ticket/convicted.

So the SG directed the RCMP must have fully marked and full roof lights for all Traffic Units. He also had the RD legislation repealed. There was lots of media coverage at the time.

Sounded great at first to those of us running RD's, but the reality soon set in. We went from 4 - 8 mile radar warnings on Highway 2, to cops using instant on, which they never used because RD were illegal.

If anyone is still reading at this point, thank you!

To sum up the concern... If cops start experiencing the jamming they've heard about, that the laser manufacturers claim their equipment can defeat, they'll push to make mere possession of jammers illegal. With radar, I/O levels the playing field, so no real concern.

The best press "we" got was two or three years ago when the Chief of Calgary Police went on TV as part of a news story concerned about laser jammers, and he said not to worry as, "Jammers don't work."

Let him and all the other LEOs keep believing that, by letting them get their laser reading within a couple of seconds of targeting.

Keep up the fantastic installs as that concealment also goes a long way to keeping the awareness low.

Edit: Many, many typos 😆
 
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CHRIS VIBE RED DEER AB

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What an impressive install @CHRIS VIBE RED DEER AB !!!!

I love how you shaped the IR acrylic. It just looks like it belongs.

My personal install has the control panel completely buried for the same reasons as your client. I used a network splitter to breakout the power and menu buttons to two factory buttons on the dash for easy JTKs.

I have my auto JTK set to 4 secs as insurance, but in practice it's easy to scrub off lots of speed and manually JTK in less than that.

The intent is not to have the cup go, "Hmmmm" when they can't get a reading. They know jammers are out there, and laser manufacturers (DE in particular) advertise their laser defeat jammers, so lots of awareness.

If the cops start to experience more and more situations where they are JTG as in 7 seconds a driver is probably past the shooter, they'll ask the government to outlaw jammers for "safety" and then we're all done. This will include your sales and install income.

Not sure how old your are so you'll may know whether I'm talking about... Back in the day when RD were illegal in Alberta, it was an offence to possess one, nvm use it.

So if you wanted a RD you had to get it from out of province. The only thing that changed it was the Solicitor General of the day lived out towards Edson. He commuted to Edmonton, and started getting speeding tickets from the RCMP Highway Patrol.

Tickets were $35 and minimum wage was $2.85. Even for a young guy like I was, flipping burgers, the fine was f'all. It was the points that for you as most speeding tickets were 3 points, and your licence was suspended at 15 points. Points stayed on your record for two years from the date you received the ticket/convicted.

So the SG directed the RCMP must have fully marked and full roof lights for all Traffic Units. He also had the RD legislation repealed. There was lots of media coverage at the time.

Sounded great at first to those of us running RD's, but the reality soon set in. We went from 4 - 8 mile radar warnings on Highway 2, to cops using instant on, which they never used because RD were illegal.

If anyone is still reading at this point, thank you!

To sum up the concern... If cops start experiencing the jamming they've heard about, that the laser manufacturers claim their equipment can defeat, they'll push to make mere possession of jammers illegal.

The best press "we" got was two or three years ago when the Chief of Calgary Police went on TV as part of a need story concerned about last jammers, and he said not to worry as, "Jammers don't work."

Let him and all the other LEOs keep believing that by letting them get their laser reading within a couple of seconds of targeting.

Keep to the fantastic installs as that concealment also goes a long way to keeping the awareness low.
Great read and I hate reading lol. I was always just following manufactures recommendations but I’m getting attacked for listing to the manufacturers lol. I’ll be leaving this group but Austin will probably still post my work here. I came here thinking it would be fun to show off that a shop actually does take the time to install the sensors properly and modules above spec... adding the covers and testing every install before it leaves back to the client to insure they get what they’re wanting I thought was going to be a plus. So whenever an admin gets back to my email I’ll be leaving. I’ve been in this industry for 27yrs and have only been installing these systems for the past 2yrs again mentioning following what the manufacture tells me so that’s what I trust ... I come from a province that this is illegal to have.
Thank you for your response and history of Alberta ❤️
 

Maz3

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Great read and I hate reading lol. I was always just following manufactures recommendations but I’m getting attacked for listing to the manufacturers lol. I’ll be leaving this group but Austin will probably still post my work here. I came here thinking it would be fun to show off that a shop actually does take the time to install the sensors properly and modules above spec... adding the covers and testing every install before it leaves back to the client to insure they get what they’re wanting I thought was going to be a plus. So whenever an admin gets back to my email I’ll be leaving. I’ve been in this industry for 27yrs and have only been installing these systems for the past 2yrs again mentioning following what the manufacture tells me so that’s what I trust ... I come from a province that this is illegal to have.
Thank you for your response and history of Alberta ❤️
My pleasure. I seem to know lots of useless stuff 🤣

I fully understand feeling attacked.

I've been on this group long enough to know that the vast majority don't intend be perceived as such, it's just passion, and the fear we'll lose our jammers.

Joe public won't like the idea that we have cloaking devices, and go as fast as we want with immunity, because that's how it'll be presented by the government. Particularly in these times were so many municipalities are moving to 30 kmh speed limits instead of the current 50 kmh standard.

Please reconsider your decision to leave. Lots here to learn from each other. Never will everyone agree, and once one's point is made, they move on respecting each other's points of view.

Best regards,
maz3

Edit: More typos 😔
 
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