That just leaves more turbos for the rest of us.
But I agree with with the auto start/stop garbage. Its very annoying. I have it on my truck and I'm thinking about disableing it via ForScan.
Somebody needs to read about how a serial hybrid works, which is what is being discussed.Optimized for efficient charging doesn’t mean it will be optimized for propulsion and in fact probably the opposite.
Occasionally I do say things, and what I said was that when the car is stopped because the Taco Hell boys above are in the rest stop convenience store committing porcelain abuse that the car can be sitting in the parking lot with the generator recharging the battery. Or it could be plugged into a charging station, if one is available. You know, options. While they're committing war crimes, their range is going up so they can escape the scene of their dirty crime.Nobody said the car would have to stop and charge itself
Wonder what the battery pack's for, if not for making up the difference? A serial hybrid would require a huge generator to try andbut rather that an onboard ICE generator optimized for efficient charging isn’t going to be the kind of house-sized generator required to provide the kind of super charger rates that would be needed to drive under extreme conditions such as continually up a steep grade.
Average speed the average person might drive in a day.Where did you come up with that range number?
Captain Obvious strikes again.And flat terrain is a very different scenario than steep grades.
If you have the power, you can. If you're almost empty, you can't. Just like any other EV. Or any ICE vehicle, for that matter.And what if you want to pass that RV on the way up the mountain?
Approximately 350 watts per mile should cover it, which would be a 30kw generator run max out. This would allow the battery pack to be more or less maintained at 85MPH. But, generators don't like being run flat out, and do best at around 50 percent capacity. As a reference point, the Chevy Volt has a 63kw generator, but considering GM also connected the engine to the wheels, I doubt the engine was optimized for the generator. And before you ask, I got the 350 watts per mile from researching on Tesla message boards and this is the average usage that Model X owners are reporting.You’d really need to figure out the energy demand (in kilowatts ideally) to perform up to your standards before you could then decide what kind of ICE generator could keep up with it. Whatever it is, it would be bigger, heavier, and less efficient than anything optimized for efficient charging. Otherwise you’re just better off with a hybrid of PHEV.
While you used the term “optimized” without specifying what exactly you were optimizing for, an ICE genset that is optimized for providing the most efficient continuous charging of a battery pack may not be optimized for providing current to the electric motors for propulsion under high demand. I’m guessing there’s a workable compromise in there regardless, maybe where it can loaf along in a relatively low rpm Atkinson cycle to feed electrons to the battery pack while being able to ramp up to wide open throttle to provide additional current through to the electric motors, but I’m just spitballing there.Somebody needs to read about how a serial hybrid works, which is what is being discussed.
As much as I legitimately enjoyed that, and I did, we were talking about running a up a mountain pass with a nearly flat battery. I don’t believe there was any mention of any system requiring that the car stop and recharge itself. In response you said, “It shouldn't be allowed to drain to the point that the car isn't drivable, requiring that the car stop and recharge itself.” Which is what I quoted in my reply.Occasionally I do say things, and what I said was that when the car is stopped because the Taco Hell boys above are in the rest stop convenience store committing porcelain abuse that the car can be sitting in the parking lot with the generator recharging the battery. Or it could be plugged into a charging station, if one is available. You know, options. While they're committing war crimes, their range is going up so they can escape the scene of their dirty crime.
I’m not sure where that was going, but that’s I think what we were (or at least I was) referring to. When dealing with various real-world scenarios where the battery pack didn’t have the juice to get it done (without sacrificing itself Spock style, anyway) that might well substantially change the required design specs of the ICE genset.Wonder what the battery pack's for, if not for making up the difference? A serial hybrid would require a huge generator to try and
Ok but what is that and how does it result in a 700 mile range exactly?Average speed the average person might drive in a day.
Again I don’t know how wires are getting crossed, here, but in a conversation about climbing a grade you threw flat terrain out there.Captain Obvious strikes again.
To be fair to ICE vehicles, that’s one problem they don’t have. Power delivery doesn’t change whether you’re running with a full tank or “almost empty.”If you have the power, you can. If you're almost empty, you can't. Just like any other EV. Or any ICE vehicle, for that matter.
The Volt is an interesting experiment, and I came close to getting one myself. But I’m not certain the genset is capable of putting out 63kW of electric current (continuous or otherwise). That may be the max horsepower rating converted.As a reference point, the Chevy Volt has a 63kw generator
I see we are in complete agreement.But isn't that the problem here? An ICE has a "sweet spot" in terms of efficiency on its consumption map. The goal should be to run it at that sweet spot at all times (or shut it down entirely) and use the battery as a buffer.
I guess to answer that we'd need to know how your Tesla handles the same hill, and your PHEV as well, to get an idea on how the differing technologies handle it. I'm assuming a Tesla isn't forced to bypass that road? And, as your Tesla has a watt usage meter, you should know exactly how much power it takes the Tesla to get up the hill. And let's not forget the efficiencies of an EV over an ICE driven car. The drivetrain should be as efficient in a serial hybrid as it is in an EV, because it's the same drivetrain.But the power required to maintain highway speeds varies dramatically depending on whether you're on flat terrain or ascending a mountain. In my older car (8th generation Corolla), I've had the accelerator almost floored before from the start of the climb all the way to the Lebec Rd. exit and I barely got over 80 mph. That's about 6 minutes of almost 100 kW propulsion power requirement. If you assume that it takes about 30 kW to cruise at highway speeds on a level surface (which is a reasonable approximation), then that's 70 kW that the battery needs to supply for 6 minutes. Meaning that it needs to have a capacity of at least 7 kWh. That's WAY above the typical capacity of a hybrid vehicle and is getting into plug-in hybrid territory. And I-5 between Grapevine and Tejon Pass isn't even the biggest mountain a vehicle would have to climb.
I did say an engineer would have to determine the optimal battery to generator ratio. The nice thing about the serial hybrid is the engine is not connected to the wheels, so it can run at its sweet spot all the time.Here's the issue:
- Internal combustion engines only operate efficiently at one spot on (RPM & power output) on the consumption map
- Size the engine for the average use on the highway on level found and it will be very efficient at that speed
- But, climbing mountains will require a much bigger battery (probably at least 10-12 kWh)
- However, a bigger battery adds weight, and it isn't efficient to lug it around if you're not going to use its capacity very much
- You can upsize the engine in lieu of making the battery bigger. But this means that the engine would have to cycle on and off frequently instead of operating nearly continuously at highway speeds, when you are driving on level ground. Even worse, the generator has to push more energy into the battery faster (because the most efficient operating region of a bigger engine produces more power).
- But wait! We upsized the engine so we didn't have to carry around a big battery, right? Except a big engine and a small battery means that the battery gets charged fast relative to its capacity (the so-called C rate is a measure of how many times the battery could be charged every hour, i.e. 0.5C means charging it in 2 hours, 1C is charging it in an hour, 2C is charging it in 30 minutes). But it turns out that's very bad for the life of the battery.
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I agree, and even asked them to move it to the battery thread I started. I'm not going to respond to them any more on this thread, if they want to continue the discussion they can move it to the appropriate thread.This has to be the best (worst) thread hijack of all-time.
Well, yes in terms of the efficiency of the motors themselves turning electrons into propulsion, but no in terms of turning dead dinos into those electrons.The drivetrain should be as efficient in a serial hybrid as it is in an EV, because it's the same drivetrain.
Right, which as mentioned above is why the efficiency isn’t up to snuff compared to the giant electric plants that feed the grid (and renewables, nuclear, etc). I’m not really sure how the calculations work out between coupling the ICE directly to the wheels versus using it to generate electricity that is then fed to electric wheels, but it seems like the extra steps may not result in it being as efficient as simply driving the wheels directly. My understanding is that the dynamics of passenger car driving isn’t the same as that of, say, a diesel-electric locomotive.the generator is supplying the power to the drive motor. The batteries will only be asked to fill in what the generator doesn't
I’m honestly not sure why they weren’t. The Volt is as close as we got that I know of (barring that silly Fifth Gear or Top Gear segment). I’m sure there’s a reason, I just don’t know what it is.Mind you, I'm not trying to argue that a serial hybrid is going to be superior to an EV, just that it should have been used as a bridging technology
I still think it would’ve saved fuel only by not using any at all while in pure BEV mode. But if nothing else it could’ve helped ease range anxiety to bridge the gap while we wait for more and better charging infrastructure.because it would have saved fuel while allowing the drivetrain to be perfected while the batteries caught up.
You could have simplified that quite a bit:Better yet, shut this thread down as it has run its course. Radenso will tell us when there is something to tell us.
Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
You could have simplified that quite a bit:
// supplyChainUpdate() returns TRUE if there's supply chain news available, FALSE otherwise
std::cout << "Are we there yet?" << std::endl;
std::cout << "No" << std::endl;
Agreed. I've started to lose interest in Theia anyway. I have lots of tech projects to focus on that are taking my time/money/interest over waiting for something that may never make it to market.Shuffle Theia to the back of our minds somewhere behind the back burner. If it becomes reality, fantastic, but it seems things are beyond Radenso's control for now.
Agreed. I've started to lose interest in Theia anyway. I have lots of tech projects to focus on that are taking my time/money/interest over waiting for something that may never make it to market.
You know the great thing is you can focus on your tech projects and as long as you are subscribed to our Radenso Theia pre-order email list, you’ll be the first to know of any updates including when Theia pre-orders will begin, thank you!
Radenso Theia pre-order email list signup: https://radenso.com/products/radenso-theia