DC Fluid's R7 Firm 135 vs. R7 Firm 133 vs. Max 360 K Band Double Header

DC Fluid

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This is only one test, of many, many more to draw firm conclusions as to detector performance!

The purpose of this test is to determine what changes there has been with the new Uniden R7 Firmware 135. Will it still perform to the level of 133 against police radar??
Bonus today, I am running my new Max 360 in this test to see if it's a contender or pretender. Escorts have traditionally been decent on K Band because they've been doing it forever.
Ka Band testing to come in the next few days.
DETECTORS:
Uniden R7A: A as in my first of 2, or Amber display, running Firmware 133. Both R7s have K Filter & TSF ON, MRCD Off, K Blocks Weak(135) or On(133).
Uniden R7B: B as in my 2nd R7 purchase, or Blue display, running new firmware 135. Settings for performance are identical to R7A, Auto Mute Memory Off
Max 360 BLE: Firmware 1.1 (newest), TSR On, Auto runs at 60 Kph, Display FR2, Arrows Multiple, Audio Standard+, MRCD Off, AutoLearn Off
SETUP:
Did something different this time and I like it.
As a lone wolf tester, I need a way to knock off as many runs as efficient as possible, with little maintenance and fuel burnt.
I came up with an idea for my Nechako location.
Put two radar guns back to back, and run passes both ways.
This test I chose 2 K Band guns, so I could knock off as many K Band settings against then as possible in a few hours.
Kustom Falcon HR 24.117 pointed East, MPH Python II K 24.154 pointed West.
Very interesting watching the differences in arrow behaviors between 133, 135, and Max 360.
Power from the guns was extension cord to relatives house, so no batteries here to excuse for fading receptions. Max power all the time!
Nearly all videos are full course runs so ramp ups can be observed.

The site and guns:
Back to back guns.
PXL_20210317_004416091.jpg

Close up guns.
PXL_20210317_004425003.jpg

View West
PXL_20210317_004431281.MP.jpg

View East
PXL_20210317_004440357.jpg


Lots of trees lining the course. Curves to the East, heavily curved and hills to the West of guns.
I shot the stronger Python K West into the more difficult terrain, and gave the low powered Falcon HR the easier course to the East.
I drove past the 2 guns every time to end of course and run back against both guns, just starting video and RD Test app for the appropriate setup.
Worked well and was productive.

I will state, this course has limited range because of foliage and terrain obstacles. Detectors are grouping alerts when terrain allows them to see the signal. R7 really couldn't stretch it's legs today and not much separation between sensitivity settings on all the detectors. However, this is a real everyday radar patrolled road. My relatives live on it, and I used their driveway as the ground zero for guns. I believe it served the purposes of comparison of firmwares.

The results:
Mar 16 2020 K Band.png



Mar 16 2020 K Band Combined.png



Opinions:
The world shaking news; R7 Firmware 135 does NOT have sensitivity of firmware 133 on K Band!
R7B has never been bested by R7A by more than 1-2% on any test since I've had them. Usually R7B has the edge by 1-2% over R7A.
I see a definite pattern of Firmware 133 leading this test by 5-7% on warning distances over the new 135 firmware. I wouldn't put and exclamation point on it EXCEPT!! for the fact that is shows true on highway modes. That should reveal your maximum sensitivity regardless of any adjustments to the Advanced % algorithms. Also, R7B used to spank R7A on City mode, it was always a bit hotter. Not anymore.
R7A on 133 was a falsing machine all the way to do this test!! Running at full highway mode I found so many BSMs and door openers that I was limiting by running 40% previously. In contrast I'm running Highway mode on Firmware 135 now with hardly a peep. Definite win by a landslide for Firm 135 on the BSM and door opener front.
Also, I was running the Max 360 at the same time as the R7A (133) on the way to the course. Found a Mazda CX-5 that set off the R7 weakly, then ramped up consistently to 4-5 bars at the rear of the car. I switched on MRCD and ta-da! Total Mazda Immunity to the BSM!! (Didn't have a chance on the 135 to switch back and forth)
The Max 360 hates the Mazda and behaves somewhat more irritating than the R7 on 133. It holds off longer, but comes on strong and drops & requires multiple times.
See here on the bonus CX-5 video. R7 has been switched to MRCD On and all quiet while Max goes silly.

Max 360: I think this damn detector stole the show today.
I really need to get my DualPro 360 back to go head to head on the same day and course, to see if this is a hot one, or just todays setup.
What the heck is up with a Max hanging with the R series??
Arrows were cool with FR2 Spec mode and Multiple selected. Informative and quick to react. As quick as R7 133 and maybe more stable. Watch some runs.
Auto mode followed the DP 360 precedent of having an excellent range at 60 kph. Best Escort Auto mode I've seen for a balanced ramp up of sensitivity with these Max/DP models. Works like I like it!
Performance was good, BSM worse than R7 135, and Ka false leaving home lasted 5 minutes and nothing but a reboot would stop it. Same frequency as previous complaint video I made. 1 - 2 bar lockup.
So excellent performance and glitchy operation out of the Max 360.
Ka performance to be determined.

Here is a playlist of nearly every run of this test:


Here are the top Falcon HR runs for each detector:

Here are the top runs against Python II:

I hope you find this all interesting, I'm off to bed after some Tylenol and water.
Regards
Post automatically merged:

Edited Opinion 11:58 PM
 
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westwind77

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Uniden R7A: A as in my first of 2, or Amber display, running Firmware 133. Both R7s have K Filter & TSF ON, MRCD Off, K Blocks Weak(135) or On(133).
Uniden R7B: B as in my 2nd R7 purchase, or Blue display, running new firmware 135. Settings for performance are identical to R7A, Auto Mute Memory Off
Max 360 BLE: Firmware 1.1 (newest), TSR On, Auto runs at 60 Kph, Display FR2, Arrows Multiple, Audio Standard+, MRCD Off, AutoLearn Off
SETUP:
Wow, amazing testing, thanks you! The M360 has always blown me away with its K-band performance, reactivity, and filtering.

That said, I never test with TSR/TSF in the 'On' setting as each RD adjusts itself differently with this enabled. I always test 'wide open' to get a true sense of that the RD can do. Of course testing with K-Filter on (with Uniden's) is a must as you can't turn it off with Escort. It is always interesting to then enable TSR/TSF after the baseline numbers are in to see how much enabling that setting on each detectors affects is overall performance. You may get a slight reduction with Escort but a larger one with Uniden or vice versa.
 

Z06fan

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Wow, amazing testing, thanks you! The M360 has always blown me away with its K-band performance, reactivity, and filtering.

That said, I never test with TSR/TSF in the 'On' setting as each RD adjusts itself differently with this enabled. I always test 'wide open' to get a true sense of that the RD can do. Of course testing with K-Filter on (with Uniden's) is a must as you can't turn it off with Escort. It is always interesting to then enable TSR/TSF after the baseline numbers are in to see how much enabling that setting on each detectors affects is overall performance. You may get a slight reduction with Escort but a larger one with Uniden or vice versa.
Looks like some of your thoughts regarding the M360 were verified.
 

DC Fluid

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Wow, amazing testing, thanks you! The M360 has always blown me away with its K-band performance, reactivity, and filtering.

That said, I never test with TSR/TSF in the 'On' setting as each RD adjusts itself differently with this enabled. I always test 'wide open' to get a true sense of that the RD can do. Of course testing with K-Filter on (with Uniden's) is a must as you can't turn it off with Escort. It is always interesting to then enable TSR/TSF after the baseline numbers are in to see how much enabling that setting on each detectors affects is overall performance. You may get a slight reduction with Escort but a larger one with Uniden or vice versa.
In my tests, I've started to run all detectors exactly like I do in real use, so I know what I've got. So many combinations to run otherwise.
I've always got TSF or TSR on to stop as many as possible BSM and stray signals from alerting.
Note: TSF may have a larger effect on range to 135 than 133. I've always found TSF to average out as a negligible amount on the R7. I suppose a 135 vs. 133 TSF Off is required....
Post automatically merged:

Looks like some of your thoughts regarding the M360 were verified.
I'm impressed that it was right in there last night.
I don't know how it would do head-to-head against it's reptile brother Cobra DualPro 360, which didn't hang with R7 nearly any tests. It did however exhibit excellent Auto mode execution just like the Max 360. So that platform got something right.
DualPro advantage; BSM, door openers, less Ka falses to satellite dishes, no Ka lockups, more CX-5 resistant (still does but not as hyper), alert tones, segmentation, and AUTO LOW K option! Found that out last night when going to run another set against the M360.:confused:
M360 Advantage: Better arrows and options around them like colors and directional blinking. Better display layout because no space lost to arrows, and better options on signal bar modes.
More K sensitivity? Might never confirm that, the multiple times I've had Ka lock up eliminates it as an option for the wife to replace the Pro M. She'd replace me if I gave her something alerting to Ka all the way to work!
Bonus I got 4 years Defender subscription on registration.
I was growing fonder of Max 360, now to decide if to exchange or outright return.
I don't think I got a lemon, just the way they are.
BTW, this is the newest version of the Max 360 (BLE) with the latest firmware.
 
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Brainstorm69

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Max 360 has always been pretty strong on K-band range.
 

Heywood

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I didn’t test the Max360, but did some tests with the Max360C.

I found the the Max360C grouped in with the Pro-M and R-Ex. There was quite a gap between them and the Uniden’s.

Then again, I wasn’t trying to neuter anything. They were at their most sensitive settings with no filters.

I wanted to see their raw performance because everyone has a different level of noise tolerance and will adjust their settings to their likings and environment.
 
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DC Fluid

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Afterthoughts:
I've slept on it and wondered how I could have shown more spread between alerts.
Then it came to me this morning.
At this location, I was shooting East (FHR direction), with triple the snow piles and had guns 20ish degrees off-axis.
This allowed me to get a little closer to the guns, and the R series picked up those faint distant alerts much earlier than others.
Max 3 was runner up for maximum range.
Yesterday, shooting straight down the courses, I was severely terrain limited and alerts all bunched up around where the signal was suddenly visible.
So a little more off-axis required, especially in Ka bands as my distances increase a fair bit over the FHR distances.

I think the Ka tests I will add in a few more K runs with Off-Axis, and TSF off on Firmware 133.
I'm interested if the Max 360 can maintain K band distances, or like all the other Max digital platforms, drop off quickly as off-Axis increases.
Also, what does Ka look like. DP360 is a small step up in every band over the Pro M. Is it slightly dimmed so not to beat the Max 360? Are they truly the same sensitivity?
My initial guess would be DP360 is more filtered/less sensitive by a small amount, but only testing will confirm. I based this wild-ass-guess on the quieter performance of the DP vs. the surprising show of the Max 360. The Max II also did well against K but not to the extent of the M360.
IMO the Max 360 has better arrow function than the R7 in this particular test.

More tests to come!
 

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Here are the 35.5 and 34.7 tests. Interested how they compare to what you see.
 

DC Fluid

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Here are the 35.5 and 34.7 tests. Interested how they compare to what you see.
I notice a pattern of similarity of your tests with my previous tests of the same models.
With the exceptions:
My R3, while is capable (and does) of getting the longest hit of the day, averages 5-10% less warning distance of my R7s, quite consistently across the board. I would asterisk ** this now with firmware 135, as the loss I see on my initial testing would bring it in line with R3.
So much is dependent on course layout. To find a nice progressive signal that allows for a linear result compared to sensitivities is near impossible outside of some really long, flat & unobstructed countryside. My envy to those that have that available.
But it is what it is here in the land of trees, valleys, mountains and snow.
Make do with what we have.
 

milkman

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Nice job of testing @DC Fluid and sharing your results with us.
 

Vortex

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Nice work with your testing! I love that you're going into details like additional differences between the Max360 and DP360 (I may need to revisit that again at some point), getting a clip on camera of the Max360 shutting off at close range, setting up two different radar guns in opp. directions, etc. :)

Testing is always a ton of work and I'm really enjoying your hard work and your insights and discoveries!
 

DC Fluid

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I should re-phrase my statement: R7 Firmware 135 does NOT have sensitivity of firmware 133 on K Band!
It should read: R7 Firmware 135 does NOT have sensitivity range of firmware 133 on K Band, with K Filter and TSF On. Unknown at this time it it is TSF, K Filter, the course layout or outright sensitivity that has affected my results. To be determined on a future test.

This difference I've seen could be a filtering matter on 135 and not sensitivity.
 

Z06fan

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In my tests, I've started to run all detectors exactly like I do in real use, so I know what I've got. So many combinations to run otherwise.
I've always got TSF or TSR on to stop as many as possible BSM and stray signals from alerting.
Note: TSF may have a larger effect on range to 135 than 133. I've always found TSF to average out as a negligible amount on the R7. I suppose a 135 vs. 133 TSF Off is required....
Post automatically merged:


I'm impressed that it was right in there last night.
I don't know how it would do head-to-head against it's reptile brother Cobra DualPro 360, which didn't hang with R7 nearly any tests. It did however exhibit excellent Auto mode execution just like the Max 360. So that platform got something right.
DualPro advantage; BSM, door openers, less Ka falses to satellite dishes, no Ka lockups, more CX-5 resistant (still does but not as hyper), alert tones, segmentation, and AUTO LOW K option! Found that out last night when going to run another set against the M360.:confused:
M360 Advantage: Better arrows and options around them like colors and directional blinking. Better display layout because no space lost to arrows, and better options on signal bar modes.
More K sensitivity? Might never confirm that, the multiple times I've had Ka lock up eliminates it as an option for the wife to replace the Pro M. She'd replace me if I gave her something alerting to Ka all the way to work!
Bonus I got 4 years Defender subscription on registration.
I was growing fonder of Max 360, now to decide if to exchange or outright return.
I don't think I got a lemon, just the way they are.
BTW, this is the newest version of the Max 360 (BLE) with the latest firmware.
It's interesting because @westwind77 and I were discussing the 360 and 360RL a couple weeks ago and which one had more long-term potential internally. It's hard to imagine Escort investing any more research or money into the 360 unless they spin it off as a "new model" that offers some advantages over the 360RL. I think we're all grateful that Uniden is doing that with the R7 (as Valentine did with the original V1 for so long), but Escort rarely makes major improvements to a current product. I learned that the hard way with my 360ci system.
 

GregTec5

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I learned that the hard way with my 360ci system.
I've been learning the hard way with Escort since the original MAX.
 

Brainstorm69

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@DC Fluid - are you going to test 33.8? Max 360 was historically pretty strong there, as I recall.
 

DC Fluid

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@DC Fluid - are you going to test 33.8? Max 360 was historically pretty strong there, as I recall.
Ka 33.8 Python II
Ka 35.5 Talon
Ka 35.5 GE II
Ka 34.7 GE II *tuned to 34.7*

All 4 plus more K setups.
 

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