Why didn't Radenso seek FCC approval for Theia?

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MASI

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All RF emitters, including incidental and RDs, must be FCC approved. Take a look at your own RD. It bears an FCC approval.

Facts are stubborn things.
 

cihkal

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So, do you even understand FCC Part 15?

If this RD, is not an emitter (actually producing measurable frequencies) then you do not need to get a license or register with FCC. It would be just like a computer or coffee maker... FCC testing is required to be below the limit line from 30Mhz to 6Ghz. You not seeing anything from FCC would be normal.

I have been working with EMI/EMC labs for our products for almost 30 years.
Post automatically merged:

Just an example of what I am talking about. View attachment 170712
That's cool but go check out the Redline; it's main patent is related (dedicated to stealth lol) and it's registered with the FCC. Too much of an emitter I guess!

Seems to be getting very, very hypothetical? Some people are very married to an idea.
 
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InsipidMonkey

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So, do you even understand FCC Part 15?
Radar detectors are specifically covered under 47 CFR 15.109:
 

Robkar

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All RF emitters, including incidental and RDs, must be FCC approved. Take a look at your own RD. It bears an FCC approval.

Facts are stubborn things.
I know, and ALL my products have that FCC mark. You will not find my company in the FCC database, but you will find my HAM license in there. Did you know that you can self declare? It's very simple.
 

cihkal

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I know, and ALL my products have that FCC mark. You will not find my company in the FCC database, but you will find my HAM license in there. Did you know that you can self declare? It's very simple.
I guess if they go that route, I'll believe it when I see it with the rest! I like surprises, they're more fun than a written answer for everything.
 

Robkar

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Radar detectors are specifically covered under 47 CFR 15.109:

Did you read that?

(a) Except for Class A digital devices, the field strength of radiated emissions from unintentional radiators at a distance of 3 meters shall not exceed the following values:
...
(h) Radar detectors shall comply with the emission limits in paragraph (a) of this section over the frequency range of 11.7-12.2 GHz.

So if you test to that standard (FCC Part 15) AND are determed to not be an emiter you can put the FCC logo on your product. FCC does not need a report. HOWEVER, if you are above the limit and get caught then there could be issues ...
 

Robkar

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All RF emitters, including incidental and RDs, must be FCC approved. Take a look at your own RD. It bears an FCC approval.

Facts are stubborn things.
Did you see what you wrote there? "All RF emitters" Part 15 allows for "non emitters", in other words, products that do not have frequencies above the limit lines. I hope that Radenso is a non emitter because it would suck if you were trying to listen to the radio and got static noise from a device hanging from your windshield. ;)
 

cihkal

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Did you see what you wrote there? "All RF emitters" Part 15 allows for "non emitters", in other words, products that do not have frequencies above the limit lines. I hope that Radenso is a non emitter because it would suck if you were trying to listen to the radio and got static noise from a device hanging from your windshield. ;)
I hope it's a non-emitter with the X band strip being wide open! I saw the cool chambers within the housing, but she's routing X around the K/Ka LNA like others (Analog High-End Unidens & Radenso XP). I've been told it'll be different, talk is cheap though when you're the one paying that top dollar.

I guess I'm in the hopeful camp as well, would paint a better picture than what was apparent in 2020. Funny how these topics all interconnect!
 
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Robkar

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I hope it's a non-emitter with the X band strip being wide open! I saw the cool chambers within the housing, but she's routing X around the K/Ka LNA like others (Analog High-End Unidens & Radenso XP). I've been told it'll be different, talk is cheap though when you're the one paying that top dollar.

I guess I'm in the hopeful camp as well, would paint a better picture than what was apparent in 2020. Funny how these topics all interconnect!
The difference is that instead of transmitting (which it should not do), it's receiving, like the radio in your car. Note that the frequencies are much higher but it's a receiver with an antenna.
 

MASI

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My friend, almost all receivers emit RF. Every RD I've ever seen emits RF. That is why the Spectra Elite Radar Detector detector can sniff out radar detectors!
The question is not whether RDs emit RF. They all do. The question is how much RF do they emit?

If Theia was essentially "ready to go" in 2020 but for a COVID induced parts shortage, then why wouldn't Radenso have either sought FCC approval directly or submitted certification from an independant certification lab to the FCC in 2020?

Could it be that Theia was just never that close to being done? I don't know.
 
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Maz3

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I actually think it's educational, now we all know more about the process; who's to say MASI didn't complete a quick search? Funny behavior per usual, thanks forum team!

It would appear @MASI didn't need to do any research on this duplicate thread topic, as he already ran this line of thinking last month:

 

cihkal

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The difference is that instead of transmitting (which it should not do), it's receiving, like the radio in your car. Note that the frequencies are much higher but it's a receiver with an antenna.
Yes sir, I do think we most of us are aware of that little detail! Do you ever review the RD companies and their products on FCCID.IO? I would assume so? The year of 2021 for Radenso in my eyes, is the year of [seeing] what they're capable of in-house!

Baseline, MASI has opened another door in terms of research.. just like google patents can be fun too. I think the response MASI received is interesting, and I guess some may continue to check throughout 2021 now. Maybe all dead-ends, maybe not. Maybe this'll be the last FOIA request we'll see haha.

The cat ain't in a bag, it's in a wrapped box like Christmas Vacation and it's shaking around! JK I just love that scene, all good @Maz3? We probably couldn't be further from the same perspective FYI :D but thanks for sharing.

Can you provide the [dedicated thread] for me to jump in btw? I heard it was duplicated, but this is for the actual response*. Not a December Radenso update side convo which is common in that thread! Fair is fair folks?
 
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Robkar

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My friend, almost all receivers emit RF. Every RD I've ever seen emits RF. That is why the Spectra Elite Radar Detector detector can sniff out radar detectors!
The question is not whether RDs emit RF. They all do. The question is how much RF do they emit?

If Theia was essentially "ready to go" in 2020 but for a COVID induced parts shortage, then why wouldn't Radenso have either sought FCC approval directly or submitted certification from an independant certification lab to the FCC in 2020?

Could it be that Theia was just never that close to being done? I don't know.
All devices have some, but that is why there are limit lines, if you don't go above the limit lines then you are good to go. I get what you are saying, and I have worked on many that needed mitigation when it came to RFI. I hate working at 3meter because almost any wideband can be above the limit.
 

rwsmith123

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My friend, almost all receivers emit RF. Every RD I've ever seen emits RF. That is why the Spectra Elite Radar Detector detector can sniff out radar detectors!
The question is not whether RDs emit RF. They all do. The question is how much RF do they emit?

If Theia was essentially "ready to go" in 2020 but for a COVID induced parts shortage, then why wouldn't Radenso have either sought FCC approval directly or submitted certification from an independant certification lab to the FCC in 2020?

Could it be that Theia was just never that close to being done? I don't know.

Did you read the post by InsepidMonkey or just disregard it because it doesn’t fit your narrative?
 

cihkal

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Here's a FCC ruling in 2002 requiring all Radar detectors to be certified because they leak RF. Interesting stuff.
Now this I have to read, would explain why its seems every modern design we care about has done it!

Quit being a conspiracy theorist by posting stuff like this ;)... it's activating folks of all levels!
 

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Robkar

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Here's a FCC ruling in 2002 requiring all Radar detectors to be certified because they leak RF. Interesting stuff.
Looks like you are correct, I went to double check the document because 20 years is a long time, but not according to he FCC. Radar detectors are specifically called out requiring Certification along with a few other toys ...
Thanks for pointing that out!

This is the actual link in at the FCC for the requirements.

Note that FCC is not the "lab" that will be doing the measurements for the cert it will be someone like Nemko. Once you have your cert it takes a few weeks to get the stamp from FCC. You don't need to engage with FCC months or years in advance. Just submit your paperwork and you are good to go. A lab will take about 2 weeks to test and prep the report unless you pay them a bit more ; ). The cost for the compliance testing is between $5-$10K and that should include the report.
 

cihkal

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With that now out of the way, back to OP's general question theme.

My personal thought is the timeline obviously shifted with the decision to scrap what they had, and move fully in-house sometime after the 2019 prototype debut at the trade-show + the challenges of 2020. I say that because the guts of the RF stuff were done (4 LNAs at the time) by late 2019 according to Jon, and then they went in-house I guess.

I respect that move and understand the delays myself! I do get the feeling of being dragged along though, given we found out for sure by running out the clock. An odd year all around, and I would say an interesting approach with the community.

I'd guess since it sounds like there's a short lead-time with the FCC blessing (?) this was of low priority to the project schedule. Wait until the last minute for the benefit of timing/staying DL as well I would guess. It really points to when Radenso knew it wasn't gonna happen in 2020 and why they chose to run out the clock. I trust that Jon is smart so it's difficult to imagine anyone experienced a revelation uber late in the game; that would be an insult to his intelligence.

I'll keep the answer brief, what occurred was just business folks. ⏰😴⏰ The only thing is, most of us don’t have skin in the game. πŸ‘(#metoo)πŸ’¨

As the days go on, the approach of "seeing something tangible/available when the time is right and being surprised" is far more attractive than what has become popular, more recently. I think more and more people are turning to the simple life (consumerism feels good?), and it doesn't require threats of silence because the sheep are restless after a lot of talk. I think everyone wants a little peace!

-C πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡Έ
 
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