RL360c v1.6 - Reactivity Testing - K & Ka Band

[westwind77]

I duplicated my prior testing tonight on the RL360c against the Max360 focusing on reactivity to K and Ka band....

RL360c Settings
Highway, TSR Off, X Off, K On, Ka 2/4/5/6/8, MCRT/D Off, K-Notch Off

Max360 Settings
Highway, TSR Off, X Off, MRCT/D Off, K-Notch Off

K-band Reactivity Test - Bushnell

As you can see, from what I can tell, there was be no improvement to K-band reactivity. The Max360 wins every single time, no contest. You can see on the longer trigger pulls the additional time it takes the RL360c to react. I was really hoping to see an improvement in this area, but my testing does not show any. The same response times are able to be duplicated with the Max 360 off as well so interference is not the issue.

Ka-Band Reactivity Test - Stalker

Escort said they made improvement to the reactivity of the unit, since I did not notice any on K I was crossing my fingers they would be noticeable on Ka....which they are. Escort did indeed manage to squeak out a bit more reactivity from the RL360c. Prior testing showed the RL about dead even with the M360 on 2/5/8, however when 4/6 were added the RL reaction time noticeably increased and the Max 360 beat it every time without a sweat with no reaction from the RL. With the new v1.6 firmware, and 4/6 enabled, you can see the RL360c and Max360 are about dead even. At times the RL will alert and the M360 will miss it or the other way around, or at times they both alerts simultaneously. All of these are with short/fast trigger pulls. So, indeed Escort did manage to do as they said, but only with Ka, not K band it seems.

I also tested the RL on 2/5/8 figuring it would tie or beat the M360 every time, however the performance was similar to 4/6 being added, so not a huge gain there is seems, but I'm sure a bit that I can't measure. I know a prior test course showed a decent distance increase between the two versions.

I then did a few tests with Ka being C/O and triggering K band C/O, both units performed flawlessly and picked up the 2nd signal with no issues.

I reversed it and held K C/O and then briefly triggered Ka a few times, both units had no issue seeing through the C/O K band and quickly alerting to the Ka threat.

I know there were more improvements to the RL than just the reactivity so that is good as well, just have not had time to 'real world' test those aspects yet. I would like to thank Escort for listening to their customer base and working on these updates and making progress during these difficult Covid times.

The Ka improvements are a very welcome addition, however, for someone like me who lives in a town that only uses K-band this update left me wanting more.

I really do hope that Escort can significantly improve their K-band response time on the RL360c. I know it took a fair bit of time to dial in the Max360 series, it performs incredible now, hopefully they can put their focus on K-band next with the RL and bring it up to the same performance.

As they say this is just one test....feel free to do your own and/or look at other testing results to gain a sense of a pattern.

 

[Bossdad71]

Nice one, good job

 

[jestric]

@westwind77 thank you for testing this. I have found that it seems to take a signal that is active for at least 1.5 to 2 seconds for the RL360C to react on K-band with my Genesis Select II.

 

[BagNDrag]

I duplicated my prior testing tonight on the RL360c against the Max360 focusing on reactivity to K and Ka band....

RL360c Settings
Highway, TSR Off, X Off, K On, Ka 2/4/5/6/8, MCRT/D Off, K-Notch Off

Max360 Settings
Highway, TSR Off, X Off, MRCT/D Off, K-Notch Off

K-band Reactivity Test - Bushnell

As you can see, from what I can tell, there was be no improvement to K-band reactivity. The Max360 wins every single time, no contest. You can see on the longer trigger pulls the additional time it takes the RL360c to react. I was really hoping to see an improvement in this area, but my testing does not show any. The same response times are able to be duplicated with the Max 360 off as well so interference is not the issue.

Ka-Band Reactivity Test - Stalker

Escort said they made improvement to the reactivity of the unit, since I did not notice any on K I was crossing my fingers they would be noticeable on Ka....which they are. Escort did indeed manage to squeak out a bit more reactivity from the RL360c. Prior testing showed the RL about dead even with the M360 on 2/5/8, however when 4/6 were added the RL reaction time noticeably increased and the Max 360 beat it every time without a sweat with no reaction from the RL. With the new v1.6 firmware, and 4/6 enabled, you can see the RL360c and Max360 are about dead even. At times the RL will alert and the M360 will miss it or the other way around, or at times they both alerts simultaneously. All of these are with short/fast trigger pulls. So, indeed Escort did manage to do as they said, but only with Ka, not K band it seems.

I also tested the RL on 2/5/8 figuring it would tie or beat the M360 every time, however the performance was similar to 4/6 being added, so not a huge gain there is seems, but I'm sure a bit that I can't measure. I know a prior test course showed a decent distance increase between the two versions.

I then did a few tests with Ka being C/O and triggering K band C/O, both units performed flawlessly and picked up the 2nd signal with no issues.

I reversed it and held K C/O and then briefly triggered Ka a few times, both units had no issue seeing through the C/O K band and quickly alerting to the Ka threat.

I know there were more improvements to the RL than just the reactivity so that is good as well, just have not had time to 'real world' test those aspects yet. I would like to thank Escort for listening to their customer base and working on these updates and making progress during these difficult Covid times.

The Ka improvements are a very welcome addition, however, for someone like me who lives in a town that only uses K-band this update left me wanting more.

I really do hope that Escort can significantly improve their K-band response time on the RL360c. I know it took a fair bit of time to dial in the Max360 series, it performs incredible now, hopefully they can put their focus on K-band next with the RL and bring it up to the same performance.

As they say this is just one test....feel free to do your own and/or look at other testing results to gain a sense of a pattern.

This is great @westwind77 !! Thanks for all the work! Did you by chance test it in Ka wide? I’m curious if it is improved to have decent reactivity? Thanks in advance.

-Mark

 

[RadarScout]

I duplicated my prior testing tonight on the RL360c against the Max360 focusing on reactivity to K and Ka band....

RL360c Settings
Highway, TSR Off, X Off, K On, Ka 2/4/5/6/8, MCRT/D Off, K-Notch Off

Max360 Settings
Highway, TSR Off, X Off, MRCT/D Off, K-Notch Off

K-band Reactivity Test - Bushnell

As you can see, from what I can tell, there was be no improvement to K-band reactivity. The Max360 wins every single time, no contest. You can see on the longer trigger pulls the additional time it takes the RL360c to react. I was really hoping to see an improvement in this area, but my testing does not show any. The same response times are able to be duplicated with the Max 360 off as well so interference is not the issue.

Ka-Band Reactivity Test - Stalker

Escort said they made improvement to the reactivity of the unit, since I did not notice any on K I was crossing my fingers they would be noticeable on Ka....which they are. Escort did indeed manage to squeak out a bit more reactivity from the RL360c. Prior testing showed the RL about dead even with the M360 on 2/5/8, however when 4/6 were added the RL reaction time noticeably increased and the Max 360 beat it every time without a sweat with no reaction from the RL. With the new v1.6 firmware, and 4/6 enabled, you can see the RL360c and Max360 are about dead even. At times the RL will alert and the M360 will miss it or the other way around, or at times they both alerts simultaneously. All of these are with short/fast trigger pulls. So, indeed Escort did manage to do as they said, but only with Ka, not K band it seems.

I also tested the RL on 2/5/8 figuring it would tie or beat the M360 every time, however the performance was similar to 4/6 being added, so not a huge gain there is seems, but I'm sure a bit that I can't measure. I know a prior test course showed a decent distance increase between the two versions.

I then did a few tests with Ka being C/O and triggering K band C/O, both units performed flawlessly and picked up the 2nd signal with no issues.

I reversed it and held K C/O and then briefly triggered Ka a few times, both units had no issue seeing through the C/O K band and quickly alerting to the Ka threat.

I know there were more improvements to the RL than just the reactivity so that is good as well, just have not had time to 'real world' test those aspects yet. I would like to thank Escort for listening to their customer base and working on these updates and making progress during these difficult Covid times.

The Ka improvements are a very welcome addition, however, for someone like me who lives in a town that only uses K-band this update left me wanting more.

I really do hope that Escort can significantly improve their K-band response time on the RL360c. I know it took a fair bit of time to dial in the Max360 series, it performs incredible now, hopefully they can put their focus on K-band next with the RL and bring it up to the same performance.

As they say this is just one test....feel free to do your own and/or look at other testing results to gain a sense of a pattern.

Great work testing. So, based on your tests, although a slight delay in K band reaction, do you feel the RL360C is safe to use in the real world? Obviously, in short range I/O, there's a good chance of getting busted, but that applies to every detector. Is the Redline360c ready for a road trip, even with the delay?

 

[westwind77]

This is great @westwind77 !! Thanks for all the work! Did you by chance test it in Ka wide? I’m curious if it is improved to have decent reactivity? Thanks in advance.

-Mark

I did not test in 'Ka Wide'. I figured at most we only really need 2/4/5/6/8 for coverage to be safe. I can run an 'apple to apples' test later this week though if you want.

 

[westwind77]

Great work testing. So, based on your tests, although a slight delay in K band reaction, do you feel the RL360C is safe to use in the real world? Obviously, in short range I/O, there's a good chance of getting busted, but that applies to every detector. Is the Redline360c ready for a road trip, even with the delay?

The delay on K band is the same as it was before, so if you did not have an issue then you should not have an issue now. I plan to test the RL360c vs the G2 later this week as well to compare the K-band differences, however I expect them to be very similar. I know a lot of the G2 folks are unhappy with the K reactivity, so I would assume the feeling would be mutual with another RD exhibiting the same delay.

As far as being 'safe', that all depends on the risk you are willing to assume. We know there is a delay and without getting too detailed here there is a risk of it missing an I/O shot from someone with experience, where the M360 would not miss it, nor the R7.

That being said there was a LEO this morning on the side of the road in one of their usual spots, no response from the RL360c though. After I passed the LEO and got up the road a bit, still well within the kill zone he I/O'ed me from the rear and the RL360c did pick it up. There were no other vehicles on the road behind me and none oncoming. I think he was being a bit tricky, waiting for people to see him, slow down then speed up after passing and hitting them then.

 

[smokinu454]

it would be nice if they could give us an option to disable/enable or maybe even have levels of k band filtering so people can find a good balance of K band reactivity and BSM filtering. Some people rarely see K band and some of us like myself see lots of K band, both C/O and I/O. I would put up with a few more falses to pick up half second K band shots or even 1 second shots LOL.

 

[westwind77]

it would be nice if they could give us an option to disable/enable or maybe even have levels of k band filtering so people can find a good balance of K band reactivity and BSM filtering. Some people rarely see K band and some of us like myself see lots of K band, both C/O and I/O. I would put up with a few more falses to pick up half second K band shots or even 1 second shots LOL.

The Max 360 series has great K band reactivity and great BSM filtering, so it is possible to achieve without sacrificing anything. Given we are talking about units from the same company I see no reason why they cannot achieve the same in the RL360c, unless the hardware inside the RL just can't handle the task.

 

[smokinu454]

@westwind77 Valid point. could be a hardware limitation with the RL360C or the added sensitivity is complicating the task maybe.

 

[searay]

The Max 360 series has great K band reactivity and great BSM filtering, so it is possible to achieve without sacrificing anything. Given we are talking about units from the same company I see no reason why they cannot achieve the same in the RL360c, unless the hardware inside the RL just can't handle the task.

Anyone segment K band? I see K band here in Kansas and I'm wondering if the reaction time would be better on K band if I were to segment? Most of the BSM's I receive are in the 24.2xx range and most of the K band threats are in the 24.110. I wonder if I toggle K narrow 3 to off if that would help reduce the BSM's I receive as well as provide a quicker reaction time.

 

[westwind77]

Anyone segment K band? I see K band here in Kansas and I'm wondering if the reaction time would be better on K band if I were to segment? Most of the BSM's I receive are in the 24.2xx range and most of the K band threats are in the 24.110. I wonder if I toggle K narrow 3 to off if that would help reduce the BSM's I receive as well as provide a quicker reaction time.

I tested this on v1.4.... This video is with just 1 K segment on and all Ka Off with v1.4

You can see the M360 still was able to react faster than the RL360c most times, but there were a couple that the RL360c caught. It only took turning basically everything on the RL360c off for that to happen.

I have not tested this under v1.6 yet though but I would be surprised to see a change. Especially given what had to be turned off to even get the results above.

 

[BagNDrag]

I did not test in 'Ka Wide'. I figured at most we only really need 2/4/5/6/8 for coverage to be safe. I can run an 'apple to apples' test later this week though if you want.

@westwind77 - I think it would be a worthwhile test. I totally agree with you about 2/4/5/6/8 (that's how I run). What got me curious was your findings that 2/5/8 wasn't much faster. It got me to thinking maybe they did something more 'global' that may have wide reacting nearly as fast as the segs now? I think it would be worthwhile? Thoughts?

-Mark

 

[RoadDogg]

@westwind77 , Great job on the testing. Thanks for taking the time to complete this.

 

[westwind77]

@westwind77 - I think it would be a worthwhile test. I totally agree with you about 2/4/5/6/8 (that's how I run). What got me curious was your findings that 2/5/8 wasn't much faster. It got me to thinking maybe they did something more 'global' that may have wide reacting nearly as fast as the segs now? I think it would be worthwhile? Thoughts?

-Mark

Interesting thoughts and you do make a good point. I will give it a shot to see later when I also test against it on K with the G2.

 

[BagNDrag]

Interesting thoughts and you do make a good point. I will give it a shot to see later when I also test against it on K with the G2.

Thanks for your time on this. Much appreciated!

-Mark

 

[searay]

I tested this on v1.4.... This video is with just 1 K segment on and all Ka Off with v1.4

You can see the M360 still was able to react faster than the RL360c most times, but there were a couple that the RL360c caught. It only took turning basically everything on the RL360c off for that to happen.

I have not tested this under v1.6 yet though but I would be surprised to see a change. Especially given what had to be turned off to even get the results above.

What segment did you test/have on? Is segment 3 used in other states or is it safe to toggle that one off? I know 3 is 24.175 – 24.250 GHz which I don't see around here other than the BSM's. The majority of the LEO's here using K band fall in segment 1 & 2 so I'm safe to turn 3 off. However, when I travel I know I'll forget to toggle it back on if segment 3 is used elsewhere.

 

[westwind77]

What segment did you test/have on? Is segment 3 used in other states or is it safe to toggle that one off? I know 3 is 24.175 – 24.250 GHz which I don't see around here other than the BSM's. The majority of the LEO's here using K band fall in segment 1 & 2 so I'm safe to turn 3 off. However, when I travel I know I'll forget to toggle it back on if segment 3 is used elsewhere.

K-Segment 2 was the one I had active. Even though there are K-band segments, it is nothing like Ka. There are no real defined segments as K-band is allowed to be anywhere in that range. Sure, are certain guns produced to be centered around an area, yes, but I have seen them all over from very high to very low. Segmenting K-band (IMO) is a bad idea. Ka band segmenting has been around a 'long time', but K-band segmenting is newer....and a lot riskier. I would say most of the K-band I see ranges in the upper of 2 to the lower and mid of 3, but I have seen it in 1 and 4 as well. The hard things is you never know when a new vehicle will show up to a fleet or you will find a trooper on a state road in your local town running k-band that you are not familiar with. IMO you either live in an area where K is not used and turn it off completely, or you leave it on fully. Anything in the middle is just risky. Once you drive around enough and see these hi/low guns it will put things into perspective.

 

[searay]

K-Segment 2 was the one I had active. Even though there are K-band segments, it is nothing like Ka. There are no real defined segments as K-band is allowed to be anywhere in that range. Sure, are certain guns produced to be centered around an area, yes, but I have seen them all over from very high to very low. Segmenting K-band (IMO) is a bad idea. Ka band segmenting has been around a 'long time', but K-band segmenting is newer....and a lot riskier. I would say most of the K-band I see ranges in the upper of 2 to the lower and mid of 3, but I have seen it in 1 and 4 as well. The hard things is you never know when a new vehicle will show up to a fleet or you will find a trooper on a state road in your local town running k-band that you are not familiar with. IMO you either live in an area where K is not used and turn it off completely, or you leave it on fully. Anything in the middle is just risky. Once you drive around enough and see these hi/low guns it will put things into perspective.

That's what I'm afraid of - a new gun (or an old gun out of tune) when I travel so I agree, it's better to leave it alone. I'd rather have an alert to a BSM false then to not get an alert to a real threat. Sooner than later I'm confident Escort can dial the BSM filters in on the RL360c like they did with the Max360.

 

[BagNDrag]

@westwind77 , @Vortex et al. I have a new theory regarding the reaction time. I did some more testing today doing multiple runs against a 34.7 source. It appears a LOT of the magic they have done in 1.6 with the reaction time is tied to "Ka" being turned 'off' vs 'on.' It's almost like that is acting like a toggle for an RDR ON/OFF type switch. I found if I toggled off KA it really didn't matter how many segs I had enabled. It gave me basically the same range. I even turned on ALL 10 segs and was getting the same range as if 2,5,8 were the only ones enabled as long as "Ka" was OFF. The moment I toggled "Ka" on, it reduced the range. If you could prove it out with your bench testing that would be awesome! Just toggle Ka off and on and see how much of a gain you get.

-Mark