Pennsylvania 2021 RADAR for local PD use bill

[soberbyker]

Every legislative session for as long as I can remember has had a radar use for local police bill. Both the Senate and the House of Representatives draft their own version of a bill. The Senate bill normally gets the traction and it normally passes the Senate and stalls in the House. Another Senate bill just died in the House and is at the end of the two year session. That said, a new 2 year session is upon us and a new bill just introduced. This one is worded very differently, looks like this representative really wants this bill to pass.

House of Representatives
Session of 2021 - 2022 Regular Session
House Bill 134​

MEMORANDUM​

Posted:​	December 2, 2020 10:57 AM
From:​	Representative Greg Rothman
To:​	All House members
Subject:​	Police Radar Legislation (Former HB74)

In the near future, I plan to reintroduce legislation that establishes a six-year pilot program for accredited municipal and regional police to use radar as a speed timing device in the Commonwealth. The legislation is an attempt to have this long-stalled device approved for use by our local police while making sure of its acceptance by the motoring public. Major points of the legislation are outlined below: Designed to address potential abuse. Use permitted only by full time police officers. Employed by full time, full service police agencies and only following an approved course of training and refresher course every three years. Only accredited municipal and regional police under a six-year pilot program. Provides for defense against prosecution if being used to generate revenue. Generation of revenue is demonstrated if 1% or more of the total revenue is derived from radar traffic fines. 10 mph cushion 90 written warning period to begin enforcement Annual progress reports from communities are to be made to PennDOT and PennDOT is required to make an annual report to the Legislature Provides for periodic testing and calibration of all devices itself as prescribed by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (N.H.T.S.A.). No points issued or insurance surcharges can be assessed. Provides that officer(s) using the device must be in marked vehicles and visible to the motoring public. Roads must be posted as “radar enforced” entering the community. Local ordinance required to enforce. Enforcement authorized only in response to citizen complaints and/or demonstrable traffic safety concerns such as high crash rates and/or fatalities. Have limited use on locally owned residential areas. Speed limits on roads authorized for radar must be certified by engineering and traffic study before enforcement begins and every three years thereafter. Ticket quota language ban added. “Station average” quotas outlawed. Please consider co-sponsoring this important piece of legislation.

 

[yellowtibby]

Living in PA currently. I am against radar or laser enforcement, but that being said I wish all state that enforced followed the rules written above. Speed enforcement has clearly turned into a cash cow in some states.

 

[DocTJ]

PA as well
I too wish law enforcement agencies would actually adhere to these especially the following : 1) 10mph cushion ,2) full time cops only (the less LEO use the better especially with small towns ). 3) Enforcement where people want it enforced. Not the wide open road where there is no danger / issue.
also I wish they’d explain that “no points “ part .

 

[soberbyker]

PA as well
I too wish law enforcement agencies would actually adhere to these especially the following : 1) 10mph cushion ,2) full time cops only (the less LEO use the better especially with small towns ). 3) Enforcement where people want it enforced. Not the wide open road where there is no danger / issue.
also I wish they’d explain that “no points “ part .

Although this new attempt actually calls it a cushion, there is language in current law that affords one as well. Basically it says for RADAR being used by the PSP no ticket can be written unless 6 miles or more over the limit, (same for roads posted 65 mph or more). With a few exceptions, like school zones, all other means of detection a ticket must not be written unless 11 miles or more per hour over the limit.

 

[Blindfingers]

PA here too.
I agree that this is another attempt to getting radar enforcement into the hands of the local PDs.
This one might make it as we already see radar/laser enforcement in construction zones across the state.

I enjoy spirited driving but all to often, residential streets are getting scary fast.

 

[RadarScout]

Provides for defense against prosecution if being used to generate revenue.

Well, that's a lovely thought.
Other than that, it's about as citizen friendly as possible from a governmental agency.

 

[Yippeekyaa]

What does local ordinance required to enforce mean? Few years ago a small city in NC set up a municipal court and all speeding tickets were “municipal fines”. They wrote tickets as fast as they could pull people over and write them. The fines, which were exorbitant, went to the city. They had zero recourse if people didnt pay. The NC attorney general shut them down. Hence my apprehension at seeing that wording. Let me gts and find the news stories in regards to that city.

Post automatically merged: Jan 14, 2021

Found it. Wasnt NC, but the town of turbeville, SC.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/south-carolina/article86160737.html

 

[Buz]

This one might make it as we already see radar/laser enforcement in construction zones across the state.

Don't hold your breath. This bill has been coming up in PA every year since I can remember and each new year the thinking is always 'it actually might pass this time'. It never does though.
If past performance is any indication of future performance it's going to die like it always does.

 

[factoryguy]

I'd personally like to see some evidence that local roads in PA are more dangerous than states with local radar enforcement. I've never seen an empirical case being made for the need here.

By the way, PA does have VASCAR as an option but that requires the officer to get out of the car to set it up.

 

[DC Fluid]

While it appears agreeable at first read, remember once they get it, no going back.
Then come the ammendments one by one until it's no different than the worst juristictions in USA.
Probably best to see it fail again.

 

[soberbyker]

What does local ordinance required to enforce mean? Few years ago a small city in NC set up a municipal court and all speeding tickets were “municipal fines”. They wrote tickets as fast as they could pull people over and write them. The fines, which were exorbitant, went to the city. They had zero recourse if people didnt pay. The NC attorney general shut them down. Hence my apprehension at seeing that wording. Let me gts and find the news stories in regards to that city.

Post automatically merged: Jan 14, 2021

Found it. Wasnt NC, but the town of turbeville, SC.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/south-carolina/article86160737.html

It means the municipality has to go through their legislative process to pass an ordinance authorizing use of radar specifically.

Don't hold your breath. This bill has been coming up in PA every year since I can remember and each new year the thinking is always 'it actually might pass this time'. It never does though.
If past performance is any indication of future performance it's going to die like it always does.

Exactly, I drive for a living, I have been following PA traffic law legislation for a very long time, as I mentioned in the OP, in recent years it passes the Senate and dies in the House.

I'd personally like to see some evidence that local roads in PA are more dangerous than states with local radar enforcement. I've never seen an empirical case being made for the need here.

By the way, PA does have VASCAR as an option but that requires the officer to get out of the car to set it up.

You might be thinking of ENRADD, which is equipment that needs to be physically set up along the side of the road. VASCAR is a dash mounted computer like device and they normally use a couple of lines painted on the road to calculate speed between two points. They can also use ROBIC or their speedometer as long as they pace you for a specific distance. None of these can be detected by any detector other than your eyes or something like that app, Waze. None of these are as quick and easy as RADAR.

 

[factoryguy]

You might be thinking of ENRADD

I was...thanks for correcting.

 

[Riptide]

You might be thinking of ENRADD, which is equipment that needs to be physically set up along the side of the road. VASCAR is a dash mounted computer like device and they normally use a couple of lines painted on the road to calculate speed between two points. They can also use ROBIC or their speedometer as long as they pace you for a specific distance. None of these can be detected by any detector other than your eyes or something like that app, Waze. None of these are as quick and easy as RADAR.

FYI I believe Stinger makes an ENRADD jammer.

 

[soberbyker]

FYI I believe Stinger makes an ENRADD jammer.

I didn't know, just looked it up, very expensive, but yea it looks like it does, thanks for the correction.

 

[Bossdad71]

I'd personally like to see some evidence that local roads in PA are more dangerous than states with local radar enforcement. I've never seen an empirical case being made for the need here.

By the way, PA does have VASCAR as an option but that requires the officer to get out of the car to set it up.

i would rather face this than vascar, if they do what they say they will do in the bill

 

[omblee0624]

Yeah for those that have RD I feel like at the very least we have some sort of counter measure against it. The VASCAR thing gets quite annoying especially in SE PA where I feel like most local roads have those lines painted. I'm originally from NY and there it seems that basically every cop has C/O 34.7 Ka and you can get that alert from a pretty long distance away

 

[factoryguy]

Yeah for those that have RD I feel like at the very least we have some sort of counter measure against it. The VASCAR thing gets quite annoying especially in SE PA where I feel like most local roads have those lines painted. I'm originally from NY and there it seems that basically every cop has C/O 34.7 Ka and you can get that alert from a pretty long distance away

My whole family has been trained to spot the lines, scan for LEOs or just pull it down to PSL +5.

 

[Bossdad71]

My whole family has been trained to spot the lines, scan for LEOs or just pull it down to PSL +5.

love the avatar

 

[factoryguy]

love the avatar

Your primates always make me smile too

 

[stano0098]

• Use permitted only by full time police officers.
• Employed by full time, full service police agencies and only following an approved course of training and refresher course every three years.

Im guessing that would exclude about 80% of Pa's police depts. Most are employed part timers or per diem unless you get into the bigger cities, or towns.