Theia RF Architecture

Jon at Radenso

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And are those three dots perforations I see in the microstrip from the left horn???:eek:

Haha, I was wondering when someone would see that. I used Adobe Lightroom's heal brush to photoshop out the manufacturer's silkscreen information (name, date code, etc), and somehow it glitched and added some vias to the microstrip that I didn't notice before I exported the pic. Those are not there in real life.

The front horn is the one with the straighter path. Your comments about the bends on the rear are technically correct but the losses are so low that it's inconsequential. For all intents and purposes they are the same sensitivity wise.
 
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AnthonySzum

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Please pardon my ignorance as I have not the slightest clue what is being said here. Its all gibberish to me.
Isn't it risky putting all this info out there about the build from a competitors standpoint?
 

Jon at Radenso

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Please pardon my ignorance as I have not the slightest clue what is being said here. Its all gibberish to me.
Isn't it risky putting all this info out there about the build from a competitors standpoint?

A little bit, I guess. But once the detector is out our competitors will buy one and look at it anyway, so all this is doing is giving them a slight head start.

On top of that, we've got some pending patents around effective ways to use this type of design, the parts cost of this front end is fundamentally incompatible with our competitor's high margin business models (even in QTY of thousands, the cost of this front end is more than the cost of an entire V1G2 or R7), and with microwave even copying someone directly takes a lot of time, money, and skill.

On the flip side, helping to educate the community about how microwave works gives us a competitive advantage. As a company that is committed to doing things the right (and expensive) way, if customers have the knowledge to open up a bunch of different detectors and evaluate what is high performing and what is not, that is a good thing from our perspective since we will always come out looking the best. If we truly build things to a higher standard, it's in our self interest to have everything "out in the open" so to speak.
 

Token

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Haha, I was wondering when someone would see that. I used Adobe Lightroom's heal brush to photoshop out the manufacturer's silkscreen information (name, date code, etc), and somehow it glitched and added some vias to the microstrip that I didn't notice before I exported the pic. Those are not there in real life.

The front horn is the one with the straighter path. Your comments about the bends on the rear are technically correct but the losses are so low that it's inconsequential. For all intents and purposes they are the same sensitivity wise.

I will admit I went down a rabbit hole in my head trying to think of a way those three dots might not be vias (since that made no sense) but rather some kind of fixed tuned attenuator / filter I was not familiar with. It was not until I saw the missing vias in other areas that I shifted away from that to some kind of image manipulation. Also, one or two of the chips looked a bit obscured / changed, or was that my imagination?

I had the front horn (incorrectly it seems) as the one lower left in the image. How I got there was from the other picture that shows the entire RF section (from the digitizer side) and horns. I talked myself into one horn being larger than the other in that picture (although realizing at the time it might just be camera perspective) and if one was indeed smaller that was probably the rear.

T!
 

Deacon

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those three dots
Would someone mind clarifying for me which three dots you’re talking about that are an artifact of image manipulation? I haven’t been able to identify them, but this stuff is mostly well beyond me.
 

Jon at Radenso

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I will admit I went down a rabbit hole in my head trying to think of a way those three dots might not be vias (since that made no sense) but rather some kind of fixed tuned attenuator / filter I was not familiar with. It was not until I saw the missing vias in other areas that I shifted away from that to some kind of image manipulation. Also, one or two of the chips looked a bit obscured / changed, or was that my imagination?

I had the front horn (incorrectly it seems) as the one lower left in the image. How I got there was from the other picture that shows the entire RF section (from the digitizer side) and horns. I talked myself into one horn being larger than the other in that picture (although realizing at the time it might just be camera perspective) and if one was indeed smaller that was probably the rear.

T!

None of the chips were touched, the only thing I did was photoshop out the date/manufacturer code. The horns are the same size, I just probably took the pic off angle giving it a skewed perspective.

Just went back into lightroom and fixed the image


DSC01120.jpg

Post automatically merged:

Would someone mind clarifying for me which three dots you’re talking about that are an artifact of image manipulation? I haven’t been able to identify them, but this stuff is mostly well beyond me.

Screen Shot 2020-11-22 at 1.24.31 PM.png


Those three holes in the middle of the microstrip. If those were there, absolutely nothing would work on the radar detector.

When making circuit boards, the manufacturer will print their logo, a date code of manufacture, and some other stuff in silkscreen. I didn't want that info public, so I did a quick photoshop of it out using the heal brush. I must have accidentally brushed the microstrip next to where the silk screen was and the algorithm inserted pictures of vias there haha.
 
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DC Fluid

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Okay Jon, I'm not to be misunderstood as being inflexible.
I will accept a compromise.
Instead of Phillips or Robertson screws, we can meet in the middle and accept TORX heads to bring this up to exceptional engineering standards.
:D :D :D :p :p :p
 

Jon at Radenso

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Okay Jon, I'm not to be misunderstood as being inflexible.
I will accept a compromise.
Instead of Phillips or Robertson screws, we can meet in the middle and accept TORX heads to bring this up to exceptional engineering standards.
:D :D :D :p :p :p

I honestly hate phillips screws and those particular screws are not the exact ones we use in production, I just used them to hold the circuit board onto the horn for the pic.

However, the torque spec on those screws is only 3lb/in so any fastener type will work with such a low torque application.
 

DC Fluid

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I honestly hate phillips screws and those particular screws are not the exact ones we use in production, I just used them to hold the circuit board onto the horn for the pic.

However, the torque spec on those screws is only 3lb/in so any fastener type will work with such a low torque application.
Perhaps use the TORX head with the security pin in the center?
That way Escort will be pissed off they have to drive to the hardware store and buy drivers to start disassembly and learn how to build real intelligence.
 

Vortex

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Man I gotta say, it's incredibly refreshing to see the level of quality and care you're putting into having genuinely good hardware. It's such a breath of fresh air and I'm sure it'll translate through the rest of Theia's design and the user experience as well.

I don't pretend to understand all the details of how the circuitry is designed and why, but I'd love to see @Rob at Radenso eventually do a walkthrough explaining the different components and how the signal is processed as it makes its way through the detector.
 

Jon at Radenso

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I promise we will, but Rob is going to be 100% consumed with work for a bit and unfortunately we just had to go back into COVID exposure protocol as of late last night. So when he is ready I promise we will have him pop in here and talk more about it; until then, let's let the man work!
 
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AnthonySzum

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A little bit, I guess. But once the detector is out our competitors will buy one and look at it anyway, so all this is doing is giving them a slight head start.

On top of that, we've got some pending patents around effective ways to use this type of design, the parts cost of this front end is fundamentally incompatible with our competitor's high margin business models (even in QTY of thousands, the cost of this front end is more than the cost of an entire V1G2 or R7), and with microwave even copying someone directly takes a lot of time, money, and skill.

On the flip side, helping to educate the community about how microwave works gives us a competitive advantage. As a company that is committed to doing things the right (and expensive) way, if customers have the knowledge to open up a bunch of different detectors and evaluate what is high performing and what is not, that is a good thing from our perspective since we will always come out looking the best. If we truly build things to a higher standard, it's in our self interest to have everything "out in the open" so to speak.
Understood and well said.
Thank you, Jon.
 

Nine_C1

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Is this some sort of feedback or phase delay into the mixer used for phase detection, or just another high pass filter?

1606145114339.png


Also, noticed another difference between the front and rear LNA circuits. An additional 1/4 wave stub on the rear horns LNA......another high pass filter?

1606145419986.png


Seems odd to be on one but not the other.
 

Jon at Radenso

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Is this some sort of feedback or phase delay into the mixer used for phase detection, or just another high pass filter?

View attachment 165553

Also, noticed another difference between the front and rear LNA circuits. An additional 1/4 wave stub on the rear horns LNA......another high pass filter?

View attachment 165554

Seems odd to be on one but not the other.
I think the first feature is just a filter but I'm not absolutely positive. The LNA feature is just part of the bias network for it and is present on both, just routed different. It's not part of the rf path.
 

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Is this some sort of feedback or phase delay into the mixer used for phase detection, or just another high pass filter?

View attachment 165553

To me that looks like an LO matching stub for an APDP mixer, but as I said before, microstrip is not my thing. In fact, that feature is one of the things that lead me to believe this detector uses an APDP vs some other mixer type.

T!
 
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Vancity23

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On top of that, we've got some pending patents around effective ways to use this type of design, the parts cost of this front end is fundamentally incompatible with our competitor's high margin business models (even in QTY of thousands, the cost of this front end is more than the cost of an entire V1G2 or R7), and with microwave even copying someone directly takes a lot of time, money, and skill.

Jon, can you explain what you mean by your competitors high margin business models...?

Jon, can you explain what you mean by your competitors high margin business models...?
 
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fishing66

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I honestly hate phillips screws and those particular screws are not the exact ones we use in production, I just used them to hold the circuit board onto the horn for the pic.

However, the torque spec on those screws is only 3lb/in so any fastener type will work with such a low torque application.
You could really mess with people's heads and use security Torx screws.....
 

DC Fluid

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I would guess, but not answer for Jon, but believe:
Traditional RD manufacturers, build with the lowest cost parts list and manufacturing processes for a lowest possible expense to supply.
Then they sell at the highest price the market will bear and still maintain adequate sales volumes.
The margin % profit per detector is much higher than a high end, high manufacturing cost detector.
 

benzr

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Aaaand, Randy already yelled at me!
🤣😇😱😜😜
Post automatically merged:

They're too busy claiming the latest update isn't an issue lmao. Just factory reset it bro.
OUCH !!!!!

:psyboom::psyboom::sotw::ughh:

Benzr
Post automatically merged:

None of the chips were touched, the only thing I did was photoshop out the date/manufacturer code. The horns are the same size, I just probably took the pic off angle giving it a skewed perspective.

Just went back into lightroom and fixed the image


View attachment 165461
Post automatically merged:



View attachment 165462

Those three holes in the middle of the microstrip. If those were there, absolutely nothing would work on the radar detector.

When making circuit boards, the manufacturer will print their logo, a date code of manufacture, and some other stuff in silkscreen. I didn't want that info public, so I did a quick photoshop of it out using the heal brush. I must have accidentally brushed the microstrip next to where the silk screen was and the algorithm inserted pictures of vias there haha.
Jon' aaaaa Playin'

😎😎
 
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