Theia and crowd sourcing

SwankPeRFection

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Debbie from the Dallas area is rumored to have retired so they'll have to settle for the store bought coconut.

I think @SwankPeRFection is more concerned about general logging of all of his trips. Any car in the last 15 years is full of black boxes that could be hijacked without the owner's permission in the event of an accident. I don't know how to avoid this kind of general logging without either leaving the phone and anything else with wifi at home or in a Faraday cage rendering it useless in the car.
Phones (the right ones) can have their Traffic monitoring portion of GPS turned Off, so that it doesn’t log your location and speed as you drive. This is how traffic info in Google Maps gets propagated... not with people just driving around with Google Maps running on their phones. The logging done on stock ECUs happens X seconds or minutes prior to an accident and kept in the ECU when an airbag event happens. It’s circular logging as the ECU doesn’t have enough memory onboard to keep logging a ton of info. That’s kept in case an investigation gets launched against the manufacturer of a car for a lawsuit against them. Sometimes, in rare instances, that info can be requested in civil suits but most of the time it’s not needed as situational proof during an accident investigation shows enough to prove what happened.

All that said, you’ll never see me buy a car with connected services, be it OnStar, the newer manufacturer driven subscriber model of shit that BMW is doing, etc. There, at the moment, is still enough of a choice on what I pick where the connectivity doesn’t exist or it can be disabled for real and for good if you don’t want it. Being able to see what module is active or not and control it via CANBUS software is a nice thing to be able to do. I don’t expect a ton of you will know how to do that or would even bother, but some of us are into modifying cars with software we run on our own laptops. Hell, if you do any maintenance yourself in most modern cars, you need software and a laptop to control certain functions to be able to even complete the work... it’s actually quite ridiculous. 🙄

Also, I don’t have an issue with Theia having the ability to log and gather data for signal analysis, but I want to be in control of when I put it in that mode or enable it I want to be in control of when I sent it and how. This bullshit “Diagnostic and Feedback” logging you see out of phone software and even apps nowadays is shit I don’t subscribe to and it’s the first thing I usually look for to disable and if I’m really anal, sniff network traffic to see if it’s sending out anything outside of what it’s base function(s) is. I’m not quite that anal anymore, but damn... certain things, companies I buy products from have no business farming from me unless I want it to happen. Enough is enough with the crap large conglomerates are doing.
 

Boozehound

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You'll get no argument from me on any of that except that I'm skeptical of any software switch. My paranoia is such that I simply don't believe it's "off" unless that network traffic can be sniffed, logged, and analyzed to the extent that it is proven so. They say millennials don't trust anything. Newsflash: There's a reason for that and it goes far beyond millennials in both directions.
 

Deacon

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The logging done on stock ECUs happens X seconds or minutes prior to an accident and kept in the ECU when an airbag event happens. It’s circular logging as the ECU doesn’t have enough memory onboard to keep logging a ton of info.
I’ve got bad news for you. That may have been true at some point in the past, but it’s certainly not broadly true now. A good friend of mine is a vehicular homicide detective, and a lot of what they do is pull data even from smashed up black boxes. If you think you can put off that inevitability, definitely add Ford to your do-not-buy list.
 
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Boozehound

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I’ve got bad news for you. That may have been true at some pohang in the past, but it’s certainly not broadly true now. A good friend of mine is a vehicular homicide detective, and a lot of what they do is pull data even from smashed up black boxes. If you think you can put off that inevitability, definitely add Ford to your do-not-buy list.
Good morning @Deacon. Do you know how many hours of logging a modern Ford is capable of? My thought on that situation has always been that you'd have to design and install a destructive system if you wanted to guarantee your veto of this data being taken. And you'll need something in place on more than one box and just have to hope you're able to hit the button. Might also open the door to an obstruction charge but if you keep your mouth shut and destroy the data electrically I doubt that'd fly.
 

Deacon

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Good morning @Deacon. Do you know how many hours of logging a modern Ford is capable of?
GPS data doesn’t take much space. I believe it’s measured in at least days, but I don’t recall for sure. I know for sure they’ve tracked movements for hours and I’m fairly certain for multiple days. Rest assured they can find out which bar the driver left.
 

SwankPeRFection

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I’ve got bad news for you. That may have been true at some point in the past, but it’s certainly not broadly true now. A good friend of mine is a vehicular homicide detective, and a lot of what they do is pull data even from smashed up black boxes. If you think you can put off that inevitability, definitely add Ford to your do-not-buy list.
I don’t buy Fords bruh. Lol
 

mb300sd

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Good morning @Deacon. Do you know how many hours of logging a modern Ford is capable of? My thought on that situation has always been that you'd have to design and install a destructive system if you wanted to guarantee your veto of this data being taken. And you'll need something in place on more than one box and just have to hope you're able to hit the button. Might also open the door to an obstruction charge but if you keep your mouth shut and destroy the data electrically I doubt that'd fly.

MoTeC for the win.
 

spinedoc777

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This would be awesome, but I understand the legal hurdles, too bad Escort doesn't license this out somehow. I must say that Waze has been a MUCH better radar detector than ANY radar detector on the market, although it does have it's time and place and on a lonely, deserted highway of course I'd still want my RD. Having the combination of both is very powerful.
 

Yippeekyaa

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Hypothetically, lets say you drive a vehicle that does not have data logging in the interest to remain anonymous. Also you do not use any cellular connected devices in your vehicle, pay cash at all tolls,etc. you still cant get around the video surveillance systems that are taking over highways, cities and even doorbells which makes trying to hide from whatever entity you can name an effort of futility. The security camera system on my farm captures everything, including every vehicle that drives past my property. It has been used multiple times to put some criminals in handcuffs and get stolen property returned. In one case less than an hour after the theft occurred.
 

sdrawkcaB

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Don’t confuse modem connections and associated GPS based tracking with the vehicle’s ECU logging. ECU logging is in all vehicles with an OBD diagnostic port.

Cars are required to store every single metric for at least the preceding two minutes. This way in the event of an accident, investigators can determine things like the speed the vehicle was traveling, throttle position, braking intensity, and etc. All metrics and user input is stored as a running data log that can be reviewed.

Not only is this for local law enforcement to use for accident investigation, it is also for vehicle manufacturers to use for post collision research, as well as federal authorities to investigate if needed.
 

Randy at Radenso

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I must say that Waze has been a MUCH better radar detector than ANY radar detector on the market

I completely disagree. I get more false alerts from Waze. Also, how does Waze alert you of police cars driving in motion? Hint: it can’t.
 

Yippeekyaa

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My use of waze has been served best as a live monitor of traffic issues than police reports. It has saved many hours of driving by being able to see traffic problems along my route and find an alternate route around the problem area.
 

Heywood

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My use of waze has been served best as a live monitor of traffic issues than police reports. It has saved many hours of driving by being able to see traffic problems along my route and find an alternate route around the problem area.
Problem is, it’s only as good as the people in that local using it.

You, unfortunately, can’t use the experience in one local as a broad brush for all locations.

For my location, it’s my last line of defence..... then again I’m using the best of the best detectors, so I expect to be alerted that they are there.... not that they were, or could be.
 

spinedoc777

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I completely disagree. I get more false alerts from Waze. Also, how does Waze alert you of police cars driving in motion? Hint: it can’t.

Yeah I see your point, but I still would put more functionality with Waze with parked and hiding LEO's, I can't even count the number of times it saved my bacon because I slowed down way before my RD went off. Even more so if the LEO didn't have a RD on and was basing his traffic stop on someone going faster than the flow of traffic. But false alerts aren't really like on a RD, they usually just mean the LEO has moved on and many times they just move up some or cross the street to throw Waze off, so getting that initial false report is a good thing. The more cars on the road the more powerful and accurate Waze becomes, but by the same token the less cars the less useful it becomes.

For moving LEO's then yeah the RD takes it. But really it's not a contest, it's both of those used together that makes the combination synergistic.
 

SwankPeRFection

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Hypothetically, lets say you drive a vehicle that does not have data logging in the interest to remain anonymous. Also you do not use any cellular connected devices in your vehicle, pay cash at all tolls,etc. you still cant get around the video surveillance systems that are taking over highways, cities and even doorbells which makes trying to hide from whatever entity you can name an effort of futility. The security camera system on my farm captures everything, including every vehicle that drives past my property. It has been used multiple times to put some criminals in handcuffs and get stolen property returned. In one case less than an hour after the theft occurred.
1605907052792.gif

😉
 
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