Dodgy van K band detection and frequencies in NZ - Observations and developments

[Radario]

The van was on the curve not parallel

Text from AGD340 Manual (Redflex Speed-Camera Radar Section)

Radar Mounting Angle
Radars are supplied factory programmed to be used for a specific mounting angle, usually to 22 degrees. This angle is the angle the radar points across the road from the direction of the road, see diagram below. The angle a radar is setup for is printed on the top side of the radar. The angle is also reported in valid detect messages and the command *AD may be used to determine it. This angle is used by the radar to adjust the speed the radar measures to the actual target speed and therefore it is important the radar is setup with the correct angle. If the radar is setup with an angle that is less than the mounting angle then the radar will measure speeds that are larger than the vehicles true speed, while if the angle is greater than the mounting angle the radar will measure speeds that are less than the vehicles true speed.

Note the last sentence describing: "angle is less or more than which is printed on the top side of the radar" producing inaccurate readings.

 

[KiwiRad]

Came across a White VW van 400M past the Ramarama off-ramp - northbound. Was in the "fast lane" and was unable to grab the rego...but no trigger at all

 

[NinjaboyNZ]

I have an R7 and DFR9, We have a dark colored VW van that parks up in our street. I cannot detect it. Tried driving past multiple times over an hour and nothing. Will get more details of the van next time.

 

[dudeinnz]

This is getting strange, interesting and very worrying.

 

[DAF]

I was wondering, If there is a new type of vehicle surveillance equipment in use, can a fine be issued when its not an officially approved?

Looking at the Land Transport Act states an "approved vehicle surveillance equipment means vehicle surveillance equipment of a kind approved by the Minister or the Minister of Police, by notice in the Gazette"

There is currently (22/02/2021) no notice if a new approved vehicle surveillance equipment.

the act talks about
moving vehicle offence means an offence detected by approved vehicle surveillance equipment that is—
(a)
a speeding offence; or

Evidence of approved vehicle surveillance equipment
(1)
In proceedings for a moving vehicle offence or a special vehicle lane offence, an image produced by means of an exposure taken by approved vehicle surveillance equipment and showing or recording a motor vehicle on a road, the speed of the vehicle, the location of the vehicle, the colour or form of a traffic control device, the fact that a toll has not been paid in respect of the vehicle, and the date and time when the image was taken, or showing or recording any of those things, is, in the absence of proof to the contrary, sufficient evidence of that fact or event.

208A Agency is enforcement officer for certain infringement offences
For the purposes of issuing an infringement notice under section 139, the Agency is an enforcement officer where—
(a)
the infringement offence to which the notice relates is a moving vehicle offence; and
(b)
the alleged offence was detected by approved vehicle surveillance equipment (whether the equipment is owned or operated by the Agency or some other person).

 

[LouG]

That's it in a nutshell. NZ Police cannot just play with any device they like. To be used for enforcement it must be approved and notified.
Ninjaboy, are you sure it was a camera van? Did you see the camera inside?

 

[KiwiRad]

That's it in a nutshell. NZ Police cannot just play with any device they like. To be used for enforcement it must be approved and notified.
Ninjaboy, are you sure it was a camera van? Did you see the camera inside?

I certainly know the one I saw that didn't trigger had a camera/device in it

Now ehere's

That's it in a nutshell. NZ Police cannot just play with any device they like. To be used for enforcement it must be approved and notified.
Ninjaboy, are you sure it was a camera van? Did you see the camera inside?

Now here’s an interesting option - could they be dummy vans, just by having their presence out there. I cannot find any reference to any new technology available for the purpose

 

[Radario]

Do the NZ Police need to have a Radar / Laser device be "legislated" to test it for potential purchase and future use to enforce speed limits?

Logic says that the "van" contains an "area-scanning" Speed Camera such as a Vitronic PoliScan SPEED or a Jenoptik Traffistar S350. What else could it be?

 

[ARW]

@Mithheru will be interested in this....
Today I travelled from the Bay of Islands to Whangarei and came across a white VW Redflex van Rego KZZ505 parked on the side of the highway - not a sound from my DFR9 for NZ as I went passed. I turned around and tried again, still no detection so carried on. On my way back 90 minutes later the van was in the same place - no detection again so I turned around and stopped behind the van, turned the detector off and on again - still no detection.... There was definitely a camera in the van and it was occupied. This is not the first time I have had no detection, yet I know that the detector is working as I have have had a previous Redflex van Ka warning and also, the detector gave a false alarm on 24.06 Ghz from a door opener in Whangarei while I was there.

 

[NinjaboyNZ]

That's it in a nutshell. NZ Police cannot just play with any device they like. To be used for enforcement it must be approved and notified.
Ninjaboy, are you sure it was a camera van? Did you see the camera inside?

Yes in an hour I drove past it 12 times, 6 in one direction and 6 in the other.

On one of the passes I slowed down to 20km and checked it out, was 100% a camera van. It was also parked in the same spot as a van they use as well that I can detect.

I was confused on the first few passes with my R7 that I hopped into my mrs car with the DFR9 and no detection either.

 

[KiwiRad]

Yes in an hour I drove past it 12 times, 6 in one direction and 6 in the other.

On one of the passes I slowed down to 20km and checked it out, was 100% a camera van. It was also parked in the same spot as a van they use as well that I can detect.

I was confused on the first few passes with my R7 that I hopped into my mrs car with the DFR9 and no detection either.

should have stopped and had a look through the windows

 

[LouG]

I certainly know the one I saw that didn't trigger had a camera/device in it

Now ehere's

Now here’s an interesting option - could they be dummy vans, just by having their presence out there. I cannot find any reference to any new technology available for the purpose

What I'm asking is whether you're sure it was a speed cam van? Did you see the Redflex inside?
There's lots of Hyundais and VW's around. The cops won't waste money on non revenue producing vans.
I remember one grey Hyundai in Nelson that was always parked near a regular speed cam spot, it fooled me several times until they went to a VW.

 

[NinjaboyNZ]

should have stopped and had a look through the windows

I could see all the equipment through their tinted window.

I will do a video next time

 

[Mithheru]

@Zakk @dudeinnz @DEMON5 @Aucklandradar and everyone else in NZ also...

So met @DAF briefly in Mana this afternoon to drop back his R7 after updating it to 137 and testing it was actually working okay.

Coincidentally at the same time there was the turquoise dodgy van parked just in Mana also. This is the very same van DAF had troubles with. This is also the Van i confirmed and detected previously was a redflex van. However, all the tables have now turned.

So we both tested it on two R7s. Neither of us got a single sniff of a detection. We know this is an authorised police location. We also know its rego is one of the dodgy vans.

I then went back, turn X band ON, K band full wide, K blocks Off, K Pop On, Ka Pop on, MRCD on. No detection on either pass in either direction.

I also confirm the camera setup inside the van looks different to usual redflex technology.

@ARW Therefore, I think across the country is what I was afraid might happen some day. Looks like they are upgrading the technology of redflex to something quite different.

I also wonder about whether the police needs to approve the technology specifically. My OIA requests caused some confusion for them as they were directed to each van. In fact they account for the infringement by authorised location only and didn't actually have records as to which van was where on any particular occasion. This thereby made it difficult for them to respond to that part of the request. So instead they sent me images taken from each van I think, but not necessarily on the day I requested. I now need to take the time to look carefully through those images for anything unusual. It's a bit harder as they didn't give me quite everything I asked for.

I think a new OIA request is going to be required now especially.

 

[Radario]

@Zakk @dudeinnz @DEMON5 @Aucklandradar and everyone else in NZ also...

So met @DAF briefly in Mana this afternoon to drop back his R7 after updating it to 137 and testing it was actually working okay.

Coincidentally at the same time there was the turquoise dodgy van parked just in Mana also. This is the very same van DAF had troubles with. This is also the Van i confirmed and detected previously was a redflex van. However, all the tables have now turned.

So we both tested it on two R7s. Neither of us got a single sniff of a detection. We know this is an authorised police location. We also know its rego is one of the dodgy vans.

I then went back, turn X band ON, K band full wide, K blocks Off, K Pop On, Ka Pop on, MRCD on. No detection on either pass in either direction.

I also confirm the camera setup inside the van looks different to usual redflex technology.

@ARW Therefore, I think across the country is what I was afraid might happen some day. Looks like they are upgrading the technology of redflex to something quite different.

I also wonder about whether the police needs to approve the technology specifically. My OIA requests caused some confusion for them as they were directed to each van. In fact they account for the infringement by authorised location only and didn't actually have records as to which van was where on any particular occasion. This thereby made it difficult for them to respond to that part of the request. So instead they sent me images taken from each van I think, but not necessarily on the day I requested. I now need to take the time to look carefully through those images for anything unusual. It's a bit harder as they didn't give me quite everything I asked for.

I think a new OIA request is going to be required now especially.

Could this "new technology" be Scanning Laser: Vitronic PoliScan SPEED or Jenoptik Traffistar S350?

Uniden is not very good at detecting Laser. A "drive-by" might have produced no Laser alert.

What else could it be? The Russians (Strelka) don't have an NZ distributor or AU. Even so, why not try an Escort International with Strelka turned ON?

 

[winterbrew]

Could this "new technology" be Scanning Laser: Vitronic PoliScan SPEED or Jenoptik Traffistar S350?

Uniden is not very good at detecting Laser. A "drive-by" might have produced no Laser alert.

Yes, they are pretty poor, more so on S350 than poliscan.

Here's the S350 without its TraffiTop white cover ;

Hard to say if its the same as in the post above ;

Dodgy van K band detection and frequencies in NZ - Observations and developments

The van was on the curve not parallel Text from AGD340 Manual (Redflex Speed-Camera Radar Section) Radar Mounting Angle Radars are supplied factory programmed to be used for a specific mounting angle, usually to 22 degrees. This angle is the angle the radar points across the road from the...

www.rdforum.org

Back to the good old V1G1 to check. Genevo One M also pics up front facers with around 300m warning. Don't try the Radenso Pro M with the latest firmware, as laser detection is restored, but its blind to poliscan/S350.

Other contenders ? - Gatso RT-3 / RT-4, but you'd hope to get some sort of peep out of the R7 fully wide?

Pro M and One M have Gatso RT-4 detection, along with the Escort Int's

 

[KiwiRad]

@Zakk @dudeinnz @DEMON5 @Aucklandradar and everyone else in NZ also...

So met @DAF briefly in Mana this afternoon to drop back his R7 after updating it to 137 and testing it was actually working okay.

Coincidentally at the same time there was the turquoise dodgy van parked just in Mana also. This is the very same van DAF had troubles with. This is also the Van i confirmed and detected previously was a redflex van. However, all the tables have now turned.

So we both tested it on two R7s. Neither of us got a single sniff of a detection. We know this is an authorised police location. We also know its rego is one of the dodgy vans.

I then went back, turn X band ON, K band full wide, K blocks Off, K Pop On, Ka Pop on, MRCD on. No detection on either pass in either direction.

I also confirm the camera setup inside the van looks different to usual redflex technology.

@ARW Therefore, I think across the country is what I was afraid might happen some day. Looks like they are upgrading the technology of redflex to something quite different.

I also wonder about whether the police needs to approve the technology specifically. My OIA requests caused some confusion for them as they were directed to each van. In fact they account for the infringement by authorised location only and didn't actually have records as to which van was where on any particular occasion. This thereby made it difficult for them to respond to that part of the request. So instead they sent me images taken from each van I think, but not necessarily on the day I requested. I now need to take the time to look carefully through those images for anything unusual. It's a bit harder as they didn't give me quite everything I asked for.

I think a new OIA request is going to be required now especially.

Did you jump out and have a gander in the window?

 

[dudeinnz]

I also confirm the camera setup inside the van looks different to usual redflex technology.

If you can nab a photo, perhaps someone here can identify it.

That is worrying, either of you have a V1 for testing if its laser? Or perhaps get Zak to make a pass by at some stage.
@Aucklandradar have you noticed anything in Auckland?

@Mithheru P.S happy to send up my V1gen 1 to you if you think it may be helpful for testing laser.

 

[philnz]

Hopefully if laser mitherus oia request where traps are will help as we can set up in database

 

[Mithheru]

It might be a good job I based the R7 137 firmware on future proofed technology supporting external laser sensors. My hunch based upon what I saw today is S350. I'll pull a still image off my dash cam.

Post automatically merged: Mar 2, 2021

No a new OIA request will be needed. They gave me images but without the calibration data I requested, and only their location reference points, no indication where the images were actually taken.

Post automatically merged: Mar 2, 2021

Here are the relevant parts of the still images I pulled off my dashcam. Sorry the resolutions is not better.

@DAF may have got some better images I think.