Ground Radar on Ag Equipment

r3MI

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Has there been any Testing with Theia to learn/ Block the Ground Radar systems mounted on JohnDeers and other Ag Tractors sprayers, Combines etc. ?

I run the R7s and when there are tractors working in the fields with their Ground Radar on the R7 blows up a mile out.


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WJS

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I just googled what this device does and went down a farming technology rabbit hole. The equipment in these tractors is incredible.
 

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Again, Theia is not a faux Frequency Detector RD, it is a Police Radar Signal Identifier IE it actually identifies the signals in its receivers bandpass only Alerts to Police Radar unlike the R7 that is Alerting to ANY signal who's Frequency happens to fall within the Police Radar Frequency Bands because the R7 DOES NOT identify actual signals.

.
 

ILS27L

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I just googled what this device does and went down a farming technology rabbit hole. The equipment in these tractors is incredible.
My brother and nephew both farm. If you get a chance go for a ride when planting or harvesting. The technology will amaze you.
 

r3MI

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Again, Theia is not a faux Frequency Detector RD, it is a Police Radar Signal Identifier IE it actually identifies the signals in its receivers bandpass only Alerts to Police Radar unlike the R7 that is Alerting to ANY signal who's Frequency happens to fall within the Police Radar Frequency Bands because the R7 DOES NOT identify actual signals.

.
Yes thank you for all that

My point of the original post, was talking about Theia and has it been trained on the Radar Systems in Modern Ag equipment, Most people have no clue these systems are in Tractors.
 

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Yes thank you for all that

My point of the original post, was talking about Theia and has it been trained on the Radar Systems in Modern Ag equipment, Most people have no clue these systems are in Tractors.
It's a valid question, pay no mind to the people who say the same thing in response to every question. As Randy said, more will be known once the product exists in release form.
 

samq45

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Has there been any Testing with Theia to learn/ Block the Ground Radar systems mounted on JohnDeers and other Ag Tractors sprayers, Combines etc. ?

I run the R7s and when there are tractors working in the fields with their Ground Radar on the R7 blows up a mile out.


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I always get surprised by these things, I came across a number of them this fall harvesting corn where my detectors alerted. Same with Sherriff patrol boats running K out in the middle of the water.
 

BMW4FUN

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@r3MI, I don't understand why you would want to be notified of this type of radar, if it was being used or not. I highly doubt it would be using radar transmitters which are used and made by police radar gun manufactures.
Is your reasoning that you, want to make sure that these radar systems are not infact the same radar systems that are used in actual police radar, therefore Theia won't produce a false alarm?
I'm just trying to understand your reasoning here.
 

westwind77

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Again, Theia is not a faux Frequency Detector RD, it is a Police Radar Signal Identifier IE it actually identifies the signals in its receivers bandpass only Alerts to Police Radar unlike the R7 that is Alerting to ANY signal who's Frequency happens to fall within the Police Radar Frequency Bands because the R7 DOES NOT identify actual signals.

.
That is IF there is a significant difference between this unit and police radar guns.

"This top-of-the-line ground speed sensor delivers the truest velocity measurement available at mounting heights over 6 feet."

BSM's and door openers are one thing to filter out, but a device such and this designed to accurately measure speed, might prove to be a bit more difficult. I would guess the 'signature' would be similar to LEO's units....the big question is....how similar. Will there be enough difference for the IA in Theia to be able to differentiate between the two?

We don't know this, only the team developing Theia knows its capabilities at this point. In theory if Kustom decided to get into the agriculture business (or at least make components for another company), they could be using their same tech, which I assuming would make it difficult to filter out.

We can all toss out what we 'think' Theia will be able to filter out, but only real-world driving will tell. They have a very talented crew working/programming so hopefully they will be able to make a huge leap forward vs what we have today.

Not to go OT but with Theia being so precise in its alerting part of me fears (rational or not) that gun makers will be able to just slightly randomize/tweak their signals to just fall outside Theia IA ID/alerting capabilities. Our current RD's are 'dumb' and can't really be fooled as they will alert to almost anything withing that range.

This is a whole new leap forward in RD's, no question about that, it will be interesting to see how it all comes together.
 

Hügel66

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Not to go OT but with Theia being so precise in its alerting part of me fears (rational or not) that gun makers will be able to just slightly randomize/tweak their signals to just fall outside Theia IA ID/alerting capabilities. Our current RD's are 'dumb' and can't really be fooled as they will alert to almost anything withing that range.
That's very unlikely because radar detectors are a niche product and Theia is a niche in the niche. If radar gun manufacturers were concerned about radar detectors, why wouldn't they tune their Stalkers to 34.9 or 35.0 Ghz instead of 34.7 since so many radar detector users run their units segmented and wouldn't pick up their signal.
 

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Yes thank you for all that

My point of the original post, was talking about Theia and has it been trained on the Radar Systems in Modern Ag equipment, Most people have no clue these systems are in Tractors.


I guess several missed the point and/or maybe thinking too deep, Theia doesn't have to be trained on every RF Signal. AG Radar is NOT Police Radar so there is most likely a huge difference in Signal Signatures but more importantly the electronics in Theia will be able to check multiple signature parameters to quickly identify whether a bandpass signal is Police Radar. Police Radar manufactures can't do anything to prevent Theia because the components required for speed radar have and cause specific signal signatures and no matter what could be added to them, the underlining generated signal signatures will always be there.

Does the door at CVS set your R7 off, answer, Yes. Will the door at CVS set Theia off, answer NO! Reason: the door at CVS is NOT police radar. Is this a true statement: Radar is Radar is Radar? It is not because there are multiple types! There are multiple varieties over multiple frequencies over multiple modes over multiple operations, range only radar, pulse acquisition radar, alarm radar, and on and on and on. Without looking into it, I would say that the AG Radar is FM based so it can be used for avoiding objects and following paths and directions in fields which is a completely different signal signature then Police Radar. Theia is NOT Frequency dependent, as to Theia, Frequency is a constant once a signal gets past its receiver's bandpass and actual signal identification starts. The only reason Theia would have to be "trained" would be so it could identify AG Equipment by an announcement but since Theia should never Alert to AG Equipment why bother training it and giving AG RF Signals an identification? When you drive by CVS, Theia is NOT going to announce "Hey, that was a CVS that I didn't just Alert to". Theia is going to stay completely quiet and you are going to think the CVS now has a manual door!

Do you follow now? In other words, Theia's electronics will most likely be basically programed to immediately dump all negatives as in, does this signals signature resemble Police Radar, NO, it is dumped IE no Alert no matter what other type radar it falls under. Does this signals signature resemble Police Radar, Yes, compare it against stored trained signals, it is Police Radar, Alert OR it walks like Police Radar, it talks like Police Radar, but I don't have that signature stored, Fail Safe, Alert! Of course things will be going on and be checked against as in, check the memory to see if this Frequency, Signal Signature, and GPS location equal a stored Block of a fixed Police Speed Sign so as again not to Alert. This is not exactly how Theia is going to work, but a broad example of what the end result of how Theia will most like work.

In other words, Randy and Jon are NOT going to have to drive all over America to record/catalog every single RF signal that could possibly make it through Theia's Receiver bandpass. Any signal that makes it though the Receiver that does not meet the basic signal signature requirements of Police Radar will be discarded.

.
 

MikePA

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Not to go OT but with Theia being so precise in its alerting part of me fears (rational or not) that gun makers will be able to just slightly randomize/tweak their signals to just fall outside Theia IA ID/alerting capabilities.
One more time. If you were a radar gun manufacturer, would you spend any time/money in reaction to such a small population? If you were a law enforcement entity, would you pay for it? No and no. There are 1,000s or 10,000s of people who speed who do not use any kind of radar detector waiting to be ticketed.
 

SwankPeRFection

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Yes thank you for all that

My point of the original post, was talking about Theia and has it been trained on the Radar Systems in Modern Ag equipment, Most people have no clue these systems are in Tractors.
They train on the threat radar sources, not the bullshit ones. Now I’m sure they probably have also trained on other BSM and also doors, etc. but technically speaking, if you’re looking for threats, you train on that and everything else is just everything else, unless you absolutely want the ability to identify and report to the user that you’re detecting a specific BSM or door opener signal. Hope that makes sense.
 

westwind77

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One more time. If you were a radar gun manufacturer, would you spend any time/money in reaction to such a small population? If you were a law enforcement entity, would you pay for it? No and no. There are 1,000s or 10,000s of people who speed who do not use any kind of radar detector waiting to be ticketed.
Why not ask the lidar companies why they do it....especially when the population who have those items is a tiny fraction of RD users. Radar companies compete against each other for contracts I'm sure. If one can say that have a feature to 'trick' the latest RD's it is a sales/marketing advantage.
 

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Why not ask the lidar companies why they do it....especially when the population who have those items is a tiny fraction of RD users. Radar companies compete against each other for contracts I'm sure. If one can say that have a feature to 'trick' the latest RD's it is a sales/marketing advantage.


Simple, LJs are legal in most States. Yes our numbers are way less then even those using RDs BUT LJs can defeat Lidar Guns. Note that after the Lidar Gun Manufactures started pushing the technology envelope what happened, the little fish in the LJ pond disappeared and only the real players are left with the exception of K40 (which is useless) plus Escort which I would never be caught running. The FCC makes it illegal to Jam Police Radar Manufactures!

Again, this supposed issue is not an actual issue. There are three huge things to remember, there are basic physics involved with the RF generation of Police Radar that create specific signal signatures and two, there are specific signal signatures created by the electronic components used by the manufacture, and third the manufacture's specific design additionally creates a specific signal signature which is all why even independent of Frequency that the gun's manufacturer and even model can be easily identified because of these signal signatures (thank the stars for the creation of mass manufacturing).

.
 

MikePA

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Radar companies compete against each other for contracts I'm sure. If one can say that have a feature to 'trick' the latest RD's it is a sales/marketing advantage.
Of course they do, that's not the point. The point is it is a business decision for both the RD seller and buyer.

Seller
"There's a new detector on the market, Theia. It identifies our hardware signature."
"Can it identify our radar gun?"
"Yes"
"What would it cost to change our radar guns? If we spent that money, how many additional sales would we make?"


Buyer
"Yes, LEO purchasing manager, if you upgrade all your radar guns, you will be able to catch all speeders, including those using Theia."
"How many Theia users are there?"
"Thousands."
"How many in our jurisdiction?"
"We don't know".
"What if Radenso upgrades their firmware to identify the new signature?"

End of meeting.
 

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Does the door at CVS set your R7 off, answer, Yes. Will the door at CVS set Theia off, answer NO! Reason: the door at CVS is NOT police radar.
At least based on previous statements, this will depend on how that particular Theia is operating.

From previous discussions it seems like that there would be a "confirmed police only" mode for alerts, but also a mode where it would alert to unknown signals, or possibly unknown signals meeting certain criteria. This is why there is an effort to be able to identify false signals as well as police radar. If these nuisance signals are not identified in the database, then they would almost certainly generate an alert if the Theia was operating in "alert to unknown" mode. The more information that is available, the better the results will be.
 

Token

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I think this is actually a very interesting question, and I suspect it will one of the harder cases for Theia to deal with and properly ID.

I looked at the data available for several different models in the FCC database. Drawings, pictures, and parts lists are available for some of them. The Gun Diode used in at least one model is very similar to, if not identical, the Gun Diode used in a real K band police radar. The horn used is near identical. The support circuitry for the oscillator is very similar. The frequency is the same as lower power police radars in K. It is going to look very much like a low power, 24.125 GHz, C/O K band signal.

With that said, Theia will probably be able to see the instabilities caused by driving over rough ground. There are probably other fine details that can discriminate one from the other. So I am sure it is possible to determine the difference, but I really suspect this is going to be one of the harder cases.

T!
 

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