Theia With POP Detection

Ramsjam12

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@Jon at Radenso

I know POP isn’t really used much but I was curious if Theia is going to have the mode and for the rest of the detectors users, have you all ever encountered pop radar?
 

Randy at Radenso

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There won't be a POP mode needed for Theia because POP is pretty much nearly non-existent and Theia can already identify I/O shots with Theia's ioScout. If you check out the Theia FAQ sticky in this section there are videos where Jon and Ariel talk about ioScout.
 

Ramsjam12

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There won't be a POP mode needed for Theia because POP is pretty much nearly non-existent and Theia can already identify I/O shots with Theia's ioScout. If you check out the Theia FAQ sticky in this section there are videos where Jon and Ariel talk about ioScout.
Thanks Jon, have a great day
 

Vortex

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Is there going to be a POP-specific alert?

From what I understand about Theia and the way it looks at signals, it should be able to tell the difference between POP, QT, and a weak and brief blip of CO at a distance.
 

OBeerWANKenobi

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So, from what I understand about how radar guns work --based in no small part on knowledge gained from an otherwise worthless thread I've been participating in-- POP is just marketing mumbo-jumbo for super fast IO. The reason POP has problems legally, from my surmisation, is not that it's some special technology but that it isn't accurate due to the frequency variation during warm up. From what I understand, that's the same warm-up "hook" that I/O scout uses to identify I/O.

Basically the Radar gun needs to read the frequency difference in the returned signal that's caused by doppler shift, but if that frequency hasn't normalized yet it's not calculating it properly. This is where the legal problem with using only POP arises. The speed can and will be off by a bit. How much depends on the frequency variation during the warm up and how long the warm-up is.

TLDR, as long as it is scanning fast enough, Theia should be able to see POP and identify it as I/O. From there, it should just be a time threshold as far as whether or not it's actually named "POP".
 

Jon at Radenso

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So, from what I understand about how radar guns work --based in no small part on knowledge gained from an otherwise worthless thread I've been participating in-- POP is just marketing mumbo-jumbo for super fast IO. The reason POP has problems legally, from my surmisation, is not that it's some special technology but that it isn't accurate due to the frequency variation during warm up. From what I understand, that's the same warm-up "hook" that I/O scout uses to identify I/O.

Basically the Radar gun needs to read the frequency difference in the returned signal that's caused by doppler shift, but if that frequency hasn't normalized yet it's not calculating it properly. This is where the legal problem with using only POP arises. The speed can and will be off by a bit. How much depends on the frequency variation during the warm up and how long the warm-up is.

TLDR, as long as it is scanning fast enough, Theia should be able to see POP and identify it as I/O. From there, it should just be a time threshold as far as whether or not it's actually named "POP".

Exactly, POP is literally just I/O too short for the emitter to stabilize. It looks like I/O so Theia will identify it as I/O becauase it is I/O.
 

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Exactly, POP is literally just I/O too short for the emitter to stabilize. It looks like I/O so Theia will identify it as I/O becauase it is I/O.
That makes sense. So I/O scout sounds like it's essentially looking for that startup "Nike swoosh" thing to trigger the alert?

Then if it's POP, QT, or IO, all of them will be reported as IO?
 

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It's just a time difference. I would think it certainly could be reported as POP but it would be for user information only because as long as it alerts to I/O it's not really important if it's POP except from an enthusiast perspective. At least that would be my opinion. Kinda neat and I'd think it was really cool to know but maybe not so much for a normal user.

Basically, in pseudo-code:
IF IS I/O AND Frequency = 33.8 AND Time < Threshold THEN "POP" ELSE I/O
 

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It's just a time difference. I would think it certainly could be reported as POP but it would be for user information only because as long as it alerts to I/O it's not really important if it's POP except from an enthusiast perspective. At least that would be my opinion. Kinda neat and I'd think it was really cool to know but maybe not so much for a normal user.

Basically, in pseudo-code:
IF IS I/O AND Frequency = 33.8 AND Time < Threshold THEN "POP" ELSE I/O
Sure I agree that it may not be critical information, but like the signal frequency and radar gun ID capabilities, it's nice to know what the officer is using and how they're using it.

I'd assume that it should be fairly straightforward to differentiate POP vs QT/IO, assuming of course you have a strong enough signal to see the signal come and go.
 

OBeerWANKenobi

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Sure I agree that it may not be critical information, but like the signal frequency and radar gun ID capabilities, it's nice to know what the officer is using and how they're using it.

I'd assume that it should be fairly straightforward to differentiate POP vs QT/IO, assuming of course you have a strong enough signal to see the signal come and go.
Yeah, I'm all for as much info as possible. I like frequency display as well for many reasons even though it may not be necessary to save me during that given alert. Knowing if it were POP might be cool legally as well. If you did get POPped.....har har......and only POPped and pulled over based on that, it would help to know that legally.

I also believe it would be straightforward to identify. Probably just a time threshold would be good enough, knowing which guns are equipped with POP.
 

Nine_C1

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There won't be a POP mode needed for Theia because POP is pretty much nearly non-existent and Theia can already identify I/O shots with Theia's ioScout. If you check out the Theia FAQ sticky in this section there are videos where Jon and Ariel talk about ioScout.
I don't know how you can claim POP is nearly non-existent. There are (5) state agencies that have standardized on the Bee III and POP mode was likely the determining factor why they chose it. There are many many more local agencies toting this model as well.

And don't ask who here has actually been hit with it because unless they have a V1 99.99% of people run with POP detection disabled....…..and if you do have a V1 it would be detected as regular I/O and you still wouldn't know it was a POP shot.

Having owned and used a Bee III I can tell you it is plenty effective and plenty accurate. LEOs don't have to rely on a "POP shot" to write a citation because it's as simple as pressing the transmit button one more time to go into normal transmit mode. You POP targets until you find a winner......then press the transmit button again and lock the speed. So easy a cavewoman could do it.

I think most people would want to know. It might also be a great selling point for Radenso. A radar detector that can actually run in POP mode and identify POP shots would be our first real oppurtunity to learn just how much this feature is actually used.
 

MikePA

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I think most people would want to know. It might also be a great selling point for Radenso. A radar detector that can actually run in POP mode and identify POP shots would be our first real oppurtunity to learn just how much this feature is actually used.
Whether POP is or is not nearly non-existent is irrelevant. Randy said Theia will identify it.
 

Jon at Radenso

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I don't know how you can claim POP is nearly non-existent. There are (5) state agencies that have standardized on the Bee III and POP mode was likely the determining factor why they chose it. There are many many more local agencies toting this model as well.

And don't ask who here has actually been hit with it because unless they have a V1 99.99% of people run with POP detection disabled....…..and if you do have a V1 it would be detected as regular I/O and you still wouldn't know it was a POP shot.

Having owned and used a Bee III I can tell you it is plenty effective and plenty accurate. LEOs don't have to rely on a "POP shot" to write a citation because it's as simple as pressing the transmit button one more time to go into normal transmit mode. You POP targets until you find a winner......then press the transmit button again and lock the speed. So easy a cavewoman could do it.

I think most people would want to know. It might also be a great selling point for Radenso. A radar detector that can actually run in POP mode and identify POP shots would be our first real oppurtunity to learn just how much this feature is actually used.

While I agree with your premise and we can make Theia alert POP if you want it to, if POP is really as prevalent as you say and all current Radenso, Escort and Uniden detectors can't detect or frequently miss it, I think Vortex and the community need to make a much bigger deal of this.

In fact, I think it needs to be shouted from the rooftops that there are at least five states in which Escort, Uniden, and current Radenso products are simply useless against such a common threat.

That would make either Theia or the V1 with POP enabled the only choices for users in those areas.

Either that, or it's not really used that often as the community has been saying for years.
 

Gadgetlocator1

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I don't know how you can claim POP is nearly non-existent. There are (5) state agencies that have standardized on the Bee III and POP mode was likely the determining factor why they chose it. There are many many more local agencies toting this model as well.

And don't ask who here has actually been hit with it because unless they have a V1 99.99% of people run with POP detection disabled....…..and if you do have a V1 it would be detected as regular I/O and you still wouldn't know it was a POP shot.

Having owned and used a Bee III I can tell you it is plenty effective and plenty accurate. LEOs don't have to rely on a "POP shot" to write a citation because it's as simple as pressing the transmit button one more time to go into normal transmit mode. You POP targets until you find a winner......then press the transmit button again and lock the speed. So easy a cavewoman could do it.

I think most people would want to know. It might also be a great selling point for Radenso. A radar detector that can actually run in POP mode and identify POP shots would be our first real oppurtunity to learn just how much this feature is actually used.
Do you know what 5 agencies have the pop by chance?
 

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Again, who cares how it is identified as long as Drivers get an instant alert to Ka I/O when ioScout sees it??

Is there a different reaction required by the Driver for POP, QT, or I/O not really, better drop the anchor if one is Plus 11 or more.

Mathematically it is represented like this: POP, QT, IO EQUALS Instant On Police Radar.

Knowing it is actual POP would only matter to somebody that doesn't bother to immediately react to All Ka I/O, but than of course, somebody that drives that way is going to get a ticket from POP if they are the current target that caused the detection so yet again it doesn't matter how it is identified as long as there is an immediate Alert! Why do I say this and keep repeating it, because it is my firm believe that Theia will actually change the way one drives with an RD. The reason for this opinion is that all the paranoia about what to do with what Alert will be eliminated IE no more BSM False Alerts, Fixed False Alerts gone, and those pesky False Ka Band Alerts that are not Police Radar will be gone while still completely protecting the driver from badly off-center frequency radar guns with absolutely no need or reason to Segment anything. In simplest terms, drivers should immediately react to Alerts from Theia as there is a 99% chance it is Police Radar, with that 1% being a signal that is so close to the signature of Police Radar that the fail safe is for Theia to alert to it.

Just my two cents, YMMV.

.
 

Randy at Radenso

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I don't know how you can claim POP is nearly non-existent.

And don't ask who here has actually been hit with it because unless they have a V1 99.99% of people run with POP detection disabled....…..and if you do have a V1 it would be detected as regular I/O and you still wouldn't know it was a POP shot.

You must forget I'm a enthusiast as well. I used a V1 for nearly a decade doing many road trips and never had one POP alert and I had mine enabled.

Also, even Ariel says the same thing in regard to POP not being used hardly anymore and that was in his article from 5 years ago and also he even recommend having it enabled on a V1 saying "it really isn’t used much in practice and so it’s not something that you need to worry about encountering on the road.": https://www.vortexradar.com/2015/11/pop-radar/

Again, who cares how it is identified as long as Drivers get an instant alert to Ka I/O when ioScout sees it??

Simple answer? Just the usual RDF nitpicking over something that isn't even a issue.
 
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OBeerWANKenobi

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I don't know how you can claim POP is nearly non-existent. There are (5) state agencies that have standardized on the Bee III and POP mode was likely the determining factor why they chose it. There are many many more local agencies toting this model as well.

And don't ask who here has actually been hit with it because unless they have a V1 99.99% of people run with POP detection disabled....…..and if you do have a V1 it would be detected as regular I/O and you still wouldn't know it was a POP shot.

Having owned and used a Bee III I can tell you it is plenty effective and plenty accurate. LEOs don't have to rely on a "POP shot" to write a citation because it's as simple as pressing the transmit button one more time to go into normal transmit mode. You POP targets until you find a winner......then press the transmit button again and lock the speed. So easy a cavewoman could do it.

I think most people would want to know. It might also be a great selling point for Radenso. A radar detector that can actually run in POP mode and identify POP shots would be our first real oppurtunity to learn just how much this feature is actually used.

To be clear, Radenso said that it will alert to POP as I/O. The only real discussion here is whether or not it labels or displays it as POP to the user.

Again, who cares how it is identified as long as Drivers get an instant alert to Ka I/O when ioScout sees it??

Is there a different reaction required by the Driver for POP, QT, or I/O not really, better drop the anchor if one is Plus 11 or more.

Mathematically it is represented like this: POP, QT, IO EQUALS Instant On Police Radar.

Knowing it is actual POP would only matter to somebody that doesn't bother to immediately react to All Ka I/O, but than of course, somebody that drives that way is going to get a ticket from POP if they are the current target that caused the detection so yet again it doesn't matter how it is identified as long as there is an immediate Alert! Why do I say this and keep repeating it, because it is my firm believe that Theia will actually change the way one drives with an RD. The reason for this opinion is that all the paranoia about what to do with what Alert will be eliminated IE no more BSM False Alerts, Fixed False Alerts gone, and those pesky False Ka Band Alerts that are not Police Radar will be gone while still completely protecting the driver from badly off-center frequency radar guns with absolutely no need or reason to Segment anything. In simplest terms, drivers should immediately react to Alerts from Theia as there is a 99% chance it is Police Radar, with that 1% being a signal that is so close to the signature of Police Radar that the fail safe is for Theia to alert to it.

Just my two cents, YMMV.

.


I think I did give a perfectly valid reason above for someone wanting to know if it was POP or not. In case you get POPped, it isn't followed up with another Tx and you get pulled. In this admittedly extremely unlikely scenario, you would know that the LEO didn't get your speed within the bounds of the law.

Also, it's just nice to know if something is being used in your area, kind of like lidar gun ID.
 

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