Heywood's October 10 2020 MRCD Testing

asleeper

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Good stuff as always. The R7 has definitely improved in terms of MRCD detection and now seems like it's actually a viable option. Might even give the gold standard Pro M a run for its money although detection is only half the battle, consistency is equally important. Still surprised by the Redline though and as you mentioned I think it's definitely a firmware issue. I'd really like to see how a V1G2 does (KV on and off) against an MRCD though.

So nice of them to paint the trucks in yellow with a little flag, makes spotting them for testing purposes easier.
 

croup

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Thank goodness as of yet I do not have to deal with it but because of the generous and great work done by @Heywood and all the testers here I will know what to do if we ever get it here....Really appreciate your breakdown "The Set-Up" , not knowing hardly anything about what you face over there, I was easily able to get a very clear picture of the environment, course, and the nasty revenue collector contraption and follow along....Made me find value in some of my detectors lying around and find faults in others that I did not know.....Your time, expense, and generosity does not go unnoticed and is greatly appreciated....
 

Kennyc56

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Great testing as always my friend! Thanks for taking the time and effort for all of the testing that you do @Heywood !
 

Boozehound

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@Heywood barely gets his latest testing out then Uniden releases 1.33. Isn't that how we roll in the CM world? Looking forward to your take on 1.33 vs MRCD but also in general. Uniden continues to impress with their ongoing product support.
 

jestric

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@Heywood thanks again for your awesome tests. Do you think it's remotely possible that the RL360c you tested was defective and could have skewed it's ability to detect MRCD. Hopefully whenever you run another test you'll have access to a different RL360c to validate these poor results.
 

Heywood

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@Heywood thanks again for your awesome tests. Do you think it's remotely possible that the RL360c you tested was defective and could have skewed it's ability to detect MRCD. Hopefully whenever you run another test you'll have access to a different RL360c to validate these poor results.
I thought about that as well.... but a few things steer me away from that theory. These are just thoughts I was running through my mind as to why it might of not worked.

1. It is picking up K band alerts.... and MRCD is in that spectrum... just modulated . If there was an a big issue there, I wouldn’t see those either.

2. The R-EX does somewhat have the same characteristics. I’d guess the filtering abilities of the R360C, even though much more sensitive.... might play a factor in how its treating it.

3. I have seen “M” alerts on the R360C before the test, and since then. Not major, or reliable.... but it has shown up. One was on the Gatso Mesta Fusion. It alerted as M, just like the R3 and R7 do with TSF turned off. On the R360C, I did, and have been running it with TSF off, MRCD & MRCT On, just to see how I can make it more repeatable.

Either way, another gracious RDF member is willing to send me his R360C to try as I need to send this R360C loaned to me for this past test, back.

@Boozehound

I’m not too worried about the new FW. Timing sucks, but I will test it against maybe just one, or two other detectors as their FW’s hasn’t changed.

The course and distances might, on the R7, but I don’t expect there to be too many big surprises since I can use the past tests as a baseline.

I might try to see, if time permitting, to see if I can get some more runs on the R3 to see if I can get a better baseline of how it fits into the bigger picture of the last test.
 

Vancity23

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Just saw this now... Anyway @Heywood awesome thorough testing videos and presentation once again, you are one of the best! This type of in the wild unbiased testing is what we need to cut through the BS some manufacturers spew.
 

Boozehound

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I thought about that as well.... but a few things steer me away from that theory. These are just thoughts I was running through my mind as to why it might of not worked.

1. It is picking up K band alerts.... and MRCD is in that spectrum... just modulated . If there was an a big issue there, I wouldn’t see those either.

2. The R-EX does somewhat have the same characteristics. I’d guess the filtering abilities of the R360C, even though much more sensitive.... might play a factor in how its treating it.

3. I have seen “M” alerts on the R360C before the test, and since then. Not major, or reliable.... but it has shown up. One was on the Gatso Mesta Fusion. It alerted as M, just like the R3 and R7 do with TSF turned off. On the R360C, I did, and have been running it with TSF off, MRCD & MRCT On, just to see how I can make it more repeatable.

Either way, another gracious RDF member is willing to send me his R360C to try as I need to send this R360C loaned to me for this past test, back.

@Boozehound

I’m not too worried about the new FW. Timing sucks, but I will test it against maybe just one, or two other detectors as their FW’s hasn’t changed.

The course and distances might, on the R7, but I don’t expect there to be too many big surprises since I can use the past tests as a baseline.

I might try to see, if time permitting, to see if I can get some more runs on the R3 to see if I can get a better baseline of how it fits into the bigger picture of the last test.

I hope you find that the new firmware both improves MRCD detection but more importantly reduces falsing when the R7 is set up to reliably detect MRCD. Falsing that leads to alerts being ignored due to all the "wolf!" cries seems like the number one way to get burnt by this threat. The new firmware also seems to more clearly identify the modulated threat as such which is helpful.
 

Heywood

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I hope you find that the new firmware both improves MRCD detection but more importantly reduces falsing when the R7 is set up to reliably detect MRCD. Falsing that leads to alerts being ignored due to all the "wolf!" cries seems like the number one way to get burnt by this threat. The new firmware also seems to more clearly identify the modulated threat as such which is helpful.
Do you have a particular BSM I should be looking out for?
 

TonyPHX

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So it's time I got a chance to do an updated MRCD test.

There's some new detectors and some new firmware's to try out.

The contestants in this MRCD Shootout

Escort R350C (FW 1.4)
Escort M360C FW 1.12)
Escort R-EX (FW 1.15)
Uniden R7 (FW1.29)
Uniden R3 (FW 1.53)
Radenso Pro-M (FW 22)

The Set-up:

I got real lucky as I was hunting for a good trap to play with. As I was driving around, I spotted an MRCD rig on the move to a new location, so I followed him. He headed right to a location that I've tested at before.

It's in a semi-residential area. A favorite location. The speed limit is 50km/h (30 mph). Of course it's polluted with 2 K band speed signs. They are about 100 yards from each other. One facing East, the other west. You'll see them in all the video's. It's a favorite tactic. The west facing K band speed sign is shooting 24.109/24.111..... depends on the detector. The east facing speed sign is shooting 24.116. At the start of the course, there's a store with a door opener shooting 24.172 today.

MRCD testing is a test of opportunity. There's not much I can control from the traps point of view. I can't control traffic, weather, reflections..... Things change from test to test. Every test see's some changes, but when your doing back to back tests, it helps to get a good overall picture of how they compare. I try to minimize the variable's, but there are always a few that can't be helped.

The MRCD rigs usually move every 2 hours. Once they move, you have to start all over again.

For those that are not familiar with what we face..... the traps antenna is always facing away from you. It gets it's speed reading after you've passed. We have no front plates, so the speed and picture is always at your ass end.

View attachment 161514

Detector Settings:

The detector settings is always something I have to consider. I do not like messing with filters if I can help it because everyone has a different level of tolerance of how much noise they are willing to put up with. Because of this, all the detectors were set at Highway Mode. I also wanted to see the effects of the TSF filter may... or may not have on the MRCD detection levels. I wanted them be as sensitive as I could make them. Just to get a good idea of what their maximum potential could be on this course, this day, against each other.

I ran both the Uniden's and Escorts with, and without TSF activated. I didn't bother with checking the effects of TSRej on the Pro-M. I've done that before on this FW and found that it had no impact on the MRCD or Gatso detection abilities. It's not a new FW from my last test.

Escort Live wasn't connected to any of the Escorts.

As I've already stated. This was as sensitive as I could make them.

The Testing:

Escort R360C

I've been waiting for this one. All the other testing has put it right in the mix on the normal radar detection. This is the same detector that @Brainstorm69 used in his Texas tests. It's @Vortex other R360C and they sent it to me. Thanks guys.
I re-formatted if, and checked to make sure it had the current FW. Since I haven't driven with it much in this area... and auto-learn was off... it was pretty chatty at first. You can hear just how polluted the test area is with K band. No matter... all the other detectors had to deal with the same conditions.

The R360C does pick up normal radar. Some false signals will punch through at times, and other times, the filtering totally ignores them. It's hit or miss with some things. I did do a run through this same area checking the K band reactivity to these same speed signs. They are part of my "Gauntlet Course" that I run through when ever I get a new detector, or a new FW. Not for testing distances... but just to see if they've changed reaction. It's a course that takes me 10 minutes to run and has 7 K Band Speed signs. I just ran it 2 days ago.

The R360C did not do well against MRCD.
Here's a comparison run I did before testing with the R360C and RC-M together to confirm that the MRCD trap was active. The noise you hear is the RC-M


Running the R360C by itself did not change the results.

3 runs with the R360C in Highway Mode/TSF off/ 3 runs with TSF on, failed to detect the MRCD trap. It didn't matter if MRCD/MRCT were on or not.
Here are the runs
Run 3 No TSF

Run 2 No TSF

Run 1 No TSF

I have seen it alert to a few MRCT RLC's but not with any consistency. Usually no alert. Runs with TSF on, didn't show any difference.


Escort Max 360C

This one did pretty good in my last MRCD test. Although it can not be used against MRCT, it was very good today.
TSF doesn't have any impact on MRCD detection.

Highway/TSF Off Reading 24.075
Run 1- 531.1 ft
Run 2 - 699.0 ft
Run 3 - 514.2ft

Run 2 TSF Off video

Highway/TSF On Reading 24.088 & 24.065
Run 1- 503.8ft
Run 2 - 631.7 ft
Run 3 - 669.7ft

Run 3 TSF On video

Escort Redline EX

Again, I'm not sure what they've done, but looking at my October 2018 testing, the R-EX was pretty good. Since then, they've gone backwards. I'm sure it has to be FW related. Still, they haven't fixed it. I'm not sure how they can be doing so well with the M360C, but shit the bed with the R360C and go backwards with the R-EX? I have offered. Up to them. @GailFromCedar

Highway TSF Off Reading 24,084
Run 1 - -212.9ft (In the kill zone)
Run 2 - No Alert
Run 3 - -81.2ft ( In the kill zone)

Highway TSF On Reading 24.088
Run 1 - -199.5ft (In the kill zone)
Run 2 - -108.1ft (In the Kill zone)
Run 3 - No Alert

Run 3 TSF Off video

Run 1 TSF On

Uniden R7

This is kind of a Dr. Jeckel and Mr. Hyde kind of thing. TSF does have a major impact on the performance of MRCD detection. Without TSF... it's one of the best at MRCD detection. As soon as you turn TSF on.... big haircut. Still, even with TSF on, it never failed not to alert you before you hit the trap, but the difference was pretty dramatic.

Highway Mode/TSF Off Reading 24.068
Run 1 - 460.6ft
Run 2 - 612.6ft
Run 3 - 673.2ft

Run 3 TSF Off Video

HWY TSF On
Run 1 - 174.9ft
Run 2 - 267.4ft
Run 3 - 164.1ft

Run 2 TSF On Video

Uniden R3

This is sort of the same thing of the R7, but all over the place. It did have 1 hero run. If I had more time, and not racing the clock on how long the MRCD rig would stay there, I would've done a few more runs. I'm not a fan of FW 1.53. It's that good with TSF turned on. It did have the longest detection of the day.... but I'm not convince that there might have been a huge reflection to help it out. I'll post the video and you can see for yourself. The limit of the 3 runs doesn't, in my humble opinion, a true reflection of it's performance. The numbers are too far apart with TSF off. I should've done 5 or 7 runs. It's uncharacteristic when I compare it to my other MRCD tests with it. Look for yourself and see if you agree.

HWY TSF Off Reading 24.070
Run 1 - 943ft
Run 2 - 528.2ft
Run 3 - 158.0ft

Run 1 TSF off Video

Run 3 TSF Off Video

Hwy TSF On
Run 1 - No Alert
Run 2 - -143.8 (In Kill Zone)
Run 3 - No Alert

Hwy TSF On Run 2

Radenso Pro-M

The usual benchmark for MRCD detection. Today it got out gunned. Not by much, but today wasn't it's day. Then again, if you need to have TSF active, it came in 2nd to only the M360C.

I've left it on FW 22. Public is FW19. It just kicked ass against the Mesta Fusion Gatso, so I left it.
I tested it in Highway mode, but left TSRej on low since I already know that it has no effect on the modulated radar detection side. You can see it yourself if you go back and look at my past tests.
On Run 2, you'll get a chance to see the car in the other lane get a photo radar ticket. lol . The flash was pretty visible.

Hwy TSRej Low
Run 1 - 547.0
Run 2 - 523.2
Run 3 - 509.0

Run 2 video


In Conclusion:

Got lucky on the testing time. Big disappointment with the R360C. It has shown that it can pick up gatso and some MRCT RLC's but very rarely. I'm more surprised when it does it. I haven't all that long to get a better idea, but I'm not done testing it yet. If you need it for MRCD detection..... well... swing and a big miss. Hopefully it can be improved with FW. They've shown they can do it, but the R-EX and R360C are not something I would ever use.

Surprised just how much TSF effects the Uniden's abilities to detect MRCD. Again, it has to be a FW thing. The R3 has shown much better results if you use the earlier FW's. (1.46 to 1.50).

The Max 360C. Since it's initial hick-ups when it first came to me.... it's been impressive on the MRCD side of it. I'm not overly impressed with it's K and Ka range... but range isn't the only metric to measure a detector.

For MRCD Detection, I'd run the M360C, Pro-M, and R7.
The R3 would be doable on a different Fw. At least you have a choice to change it as you please.
No to the R360C and The R-EX with the current FW.
EXCEPTIONAL WRITE UP.
Thank you!!!

I am suitably annoyed over the R360c's performance. Wow. What a dud for this.
 

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