Results - 2,400 Miles Running V1 G1 and V1 G2 Side by Side

[MASI]

Been a V1 user for 20+ years. Recently received my V1G2. I wondered, what if I compared them, side-by-side in the real world? Given that new detectors have such extremely low RF emissions (to keep then undetectable) I wondered whether one would really interfere with the other. (Yes, I know everyone believes this). However, I found no specs nor any objective testing. Unfortunately, my own spectrum analyzer won't go up to 35 Ghz, so I can't objectively measure the RF emissions. So, when lab toys and specs aren't available, I say test in the real world. So I did. I recently drove from Illinois to Breckenridge, CO, to Park City, UT, then down to Scottsdale, AZ. Below are the results of my side by side testing of my G1 and G2. As always, this is just one test, by one tester, in one configuration, so your mileage may vary. But if you are wondering what a side by side comparison, at interstate highway speeds, would reveal, read on.


Both the G1 and G2 have the latest firmware. Both units were center of the windshield mounted, about 6" apart. Ran "A" mode in the remote areas and "l" mode in more urbanized areas. Always the same mode on both detectors. "K" Verifier was always on.


FIRST - THE EXPECTED RESULTS

1) KA band range. The G2 typically gave 3-6 seconds earlier alert over the G1. (At 85 MPH, that is 125 feet per second).

2) KA False alerts. A couple of times, the G2 alerted to KA, but I could not identify the source. Could have been any number of things, including real radar aiming at a different area, reflections, etc, etc. Given that the G2 is more sensitive than the G1, this **probably** explains this, but its hard to know for sure.

3) Blind Spot Performance. Of 86 apparent blind spot monitor alerts, the G2 was either quiet or alerted at the lowest level 77 times. No question that the G2 is much quieter on the BSM front. Often the G1 was alerting near full tilt, while the G2 was silent.

4) K band Range. No clear winner here - at highway speeds. At times, one alerted a second or two over the other. My gut tells me that the G2 tended to be a little better, at highway speeds, but I really can't say for sure.

5) The G2 suffers from ghosting more than the G1. I captured a screen shot of one instance where the G2 went wild in a construction zone. See below. This was rare. Perhaps 3 times in 2,400 miles.


SECOND - THE UNEXPECTED RESULTS

I passed 2 automated K band speed signs where the G1 alerted full tilt, but the G2 was silent! (Never happened with live LE situation) One automated sign was in Colorado outside of Breckenridge and the other was in Utah. I have no explanation for this. Especially given the results above. Could it be that some automated speed signs are operating at BSM frequencies that are blocked by "K" verifier of the G2? I really don't know. Perhaps others can offer a theory or explanation.



CONCLUSIONS

So, there you have the results of my 2,400 mile testing of my G1 and G2, side by side. I saw no evidence of any cross-talk or interference. Could it have been a factor and I just never saw it? Possibly, but I saw no evidence. It sure would be nice to see some spectral analysis on actual measured RF emissions from both devices, but so far as I am able to ascertain, if it exists, its not in the public domain. (A spectrum analyzer capable of 35 GHZ is a very expensive piece of RF engineering hardware). Remember, as with all testing, your mileage may vary.

 

[JohnnySpeedy]

All in all it appears the the V1 is still viable. 3 to 6 seconds of alert is not much of incentive to go out and spend $500.

 

[LouG]

That's an interesting test. I don't think I've seen anything done like that before. Well done.
Having used both, I'm certain the Gen2's performance is well worth the price I paid. It's off axis performance is the clincher for me given our driving environment. But I'm impressed with the whole package especially combined with JBV1.

 

[Vortex]

Thanks for sharing your results!

To add another data point, I have tried the Redline 360c and V1 Gen2 together multiple times and get repeated Ka falses so even stealth detectors aren’t immune to interference.

 

[Vancity23]

This is great to read, thanks for doing the test, I cant recall seeing that done before.

 

[MASI]

I don't think I've seen anything done like that before.

Me either. That's why I did it.

Post automatically merged: Oct 4, 2020

Post automatically merged: Oct 4, 2020

have tried the Redline 360c and V1 Gen2 together multiple times and get repeated Ka falses

That is both interesting and helpful data. Thank you. A couple of questions, if I might:

1) Which detector suffered the Ka falses? The G2 or RL360?

2) Latest Rev for the G2?

3) Did you experience the cross talk in urban (lots of close in reflections) or clear rural area? My test was almost exclusively on remote interstate highways where there is not so much to reflect signals. I had very long intervals of quiet, wherein I was looking for cross-talk, but did not experience any. Could it be that in the urban/semi-rural environments there are more reflections from the forward and rear facing antennae of one detector into the other ?

 

[Brilliant]

Thanks for this

 

[6thgear]

Thanks for sharing!

Could have been a modulated signal and was filtered out by the V1G2.

passed 2 automated K band speed signs where the G1 alerted full tilt, but the G2 was silent! (

 

[mpatel1080]

All in all it appears the the V1 is still viable. 3 to 6 seconds of alert is not much of incentive to go out and spend $500.

There is a huge difference in false rejection from blind spot monitoring systems between the G1 and G2. If you live in an area with lots of modern vehicles then the Gen 2 is worth every penny.

 

[G37X Jockey]

Me either. That's why I did it.

Post automatically merged: Oct 4, 2020

Post automatically merged: Oct 4, 2020

That is both interesting and helpful data. Thank you. A couple of questions, if I might:

1) Which detector suffered the Ka falses? The G2 or RL360?

2) Latest Rev for the G2?

3) Did you experience the cross talk in urban (lots of close in reflections) or clear rural area? My test was almost exclusively on remote interstate highways where there is not so much to reflect signals. I had very long intervals of quiet, wherein I was looking for cross-talk, but did not experience any. Could it be that in the urban/semi-rural environments there are more reflections from the forward and rear facing antennae of one detector into the other ?

RD to RD interference can take the form of one suppressing the other as opposed to causing false alerts which are obvious to see. Check out the video on this subject done by Radenso a few months ago; it's really interesting.

 

[barry]

All in all it appears the the V1 is still viable. 3 to 6 seconds of alert is not much of incentive to go out and spend $500.

My wife insists that the lack of constant BSM alerts is just as important, if not more so, than the increased range.

 

[Disconnected]

How many legitimate K-band alerts did you receive on the Interstate?

 

[MASI]

How many legitimate K-band alerts did you receive on the Interstate?

Overall, I was able to ID 6 actual LE types with active radar. Did not record how many were Ka vs K.

Post automatically merged: Oct 4, 2020

RD to RD interference can take the form of one suppressing the other as opposed to causing false alerts which are obvious to see.

That may be true in some cases with some detectors. But my range results seem to be consistent with the results posted by other reviewers. So, I'm not sure how that could be the case here.

 

[LouG]

When I first got the Gen2 I had a mix of alert ranges from "that's not bad" to "bloody hell where's that cop hiding". He wasn't, he was 5 km's away. But all were better than Gen1 did in the same situation.
I think Gen2's big advantage is sniffing out the really faint Ka signals.

 

[Vortex]

That is both interesting and helpful data. Thank you. A couple of questions, if I might:

1) Which detector suffered the Ka falses? The G2 or RL360?

Generally it was the V1 Gen2 falsing to Ka because of the RL360c.

2) Latest Rev for the G2?

Both with 4.1018 and 4.1019.

3) Did you experience the cross talk in urban (lots of close in reflections) or clear rural area? My test was almost exclusively on remote interstate highways where there is not so much to reflect signals. I had very long intervals of quiet, wherein I was looking for cross-talk, but did not experience any. Could it be that in the urban/semi-rural environments there are more reflections from the forward and rear facing antennae of one detector into the other ?

For me it was location independent. It would happen pretty much every time I started my car and then again every 10-20 min. It would happen in my driveway, in the city, and on the highway.

I remember a test years ago showing the original Redline triggering falses on a repeating pattern too, something to do with the sweeps syncing up between multiple detectors.

Edit: Here's the thread.

If even the Redlines can trigger falses on other detectors, and the M3 platform is basically the stealthiest around, it’s hard for me to imagine a V1 Gen1 causing absolutely no problems to a detector 6” away (way closer than the minimum recommended separation levels) while simultaneously leaking emissions that a Spectre can pick up from hundreds of feet away.

 

[MASI]

I remember a test years ago showing the original Redline triggering falses on a repeating pattern too, something to do with the sweeps syncing up between multiple detectors.

So the early Redliners ...... (not the current RL360) caused the V1G1 to false on some rotating regularity. Interesting. But todays detectors (RL360c and V1G2) are much stealthier and have vastly suppressed outputs compared to yesterday's detectors. Hence the new generation (RL360 and V1G2) current undetectabillity - as shown by your own excellent tests! (Which I very much appreciate).

I recall Ed Bolin ( I think) saying during an interview that he had an issue with 2 two G1s ping ponging. But those were G1s. Not G2s

I had a few intervals of at least 30 minutes where neither detector alerted. Given the vastly increased rate of sweep of the G2 (over the G1) if it was sweeps linking up, one would think that if there was to be a problem, it would show up in 30 minutes....... Hummmmmm....

 

[BIGGER Dave]

All in all it appears the the V1 is still viable. 3 to 6 seconds of alert is not much of incentive to go out and spend $500.

The way I look at it, I sold my Gen1 on eBay and cleared $200 after eBay/PayPal fees. Subtract that from the $500 Gen2 cost, and it only cost me $300 to upgrade. Well worth it considering the Gen2 is so much quieter when I pass cars equipped with BSM.

 

[samq45]

So the early Redliners ...... (not the current RL360) caused the V1G1 to false on some rotating regularity. Interesting. But todays detectors (RL360c and V1G2) are much stealthier and have vastly suppressed outputs compared to yesterday's detectors. Hence the new generation (RL360 and V1G2) current undetectabillity - as shown by your own excellent tests! (Which I very much appreciate).

I recall Ed Bolin ( I think) saying during an interview that he had an issue with 2 two G1s ping ponging. But those were G1s. Not G2s

I had a few intervals of at least 30 minutes where neither detector alerted. Given the vastly increased rate of sweep of the G2 (over the G1) if it was sweeps linking up, one would think that if there was to be a problem, it would show up in 30 minutes....... Hummmmmm....

It seems like from this post that you think interference always "shows up" in some fashion though some beeps?

Interference does not always cause an alert - most of the time it does not and mostly you will notice delayed alerts, and in some cases with a weaker signal - no alert at all.

The New Redlines interfere with the V1G2 alerting to them and the Redlines pick up the V1G2 also but they don't alert to the V1 G2 for the most part - the alert range in some cases against fixed Ka signs is delayed on the RL360c - or in my case the V1G2 and the Plus caught a moderate 3 bar signal, while the RL360c was silent . When the RL360C is doing its self cal every 10 minutes, that is when you see the alert on the V1G2 - but interference can easily happen at anytime - Not just on the calibration or any sweeps linking up.

If a detector sees another detector, the filtering might be working overtime to remove the signal it thinks is false. As its doing this the detector can spend extra time parking on the frequency to see if its real. While it is doing this the detector is not scanning and processing other signals as quickly and the alerts for those may be delayed.

Interference is difficult to see and detect without specialized equipment, but it pops up every once in a while - mostly on fixed sources that you know the distance by heart, I could see it rarely with 2 M3s, which are supposed to be as stealth as it gets. If the V1G1 can be picked up by a Spectre from quite a distance, the more sensitive V1G2 surely sees the V1G1 and has to use resources to deal with that signal. It might not have an effect some or most of the time, but there is a reason that testing with 2 detectors in the cab needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

Just because one or the other is not alerting, does not mean that interference is not occurring.

 

[MASI]

Just because one or the other is not alerting, does not mean that interference is not occurring.

With all due respect, and I intend that sincerely, when it comes to Radio Frequency signals, we generally prefer to deal with knowns, rather than speculation, guess, conjecture, maybes, or possibilities. Here is what we know:

1) The strength of emitted signals from RDs have been dropping with each successive generation, making them less and less detectable. This new generation (G2 and RL360) appear to have extremely low emissions.

2) The strength of an RD emitted signal will generally depend upon the vector, i.e. direction. One would normally expect to see the most emitted signal from the antennas (front and rear), because that is where the emitted signal mostly escapes the RD.

3) The amount of signal emitted from the **side** is expected to be orders of magnitude lower than from the front or rear antennae. This is because the case acts as a "shield" keeping external signals out and internal signals in. This is called "shielding".

4) If one detector is emitting a signal on a RD frequency, then we expect the other detector to alert. (That is why we have them, right?) However, that did not seem to happen in my G1/G2 test. I had long intervals of no alerts. So.........

5) If the RD was emitting a non-RD frequency and thereby merely raising the noise floor, then we would expect a decreased signal to noise ratio, which typically shows up as reduced range. But that did not seem to happen in this particular test. My ranges seemed fairly consistent with results by other testers using a single detector methodology.

6) I certainly can't speak for a RL360, because it was not part of the test. So as for the RL360, I must defer to others.

 

[Vortex]

I suppose one of the hard things about interference testing is there's no good way (at least that I know of) to definitively say that interference isn't present. It's pretty obvious when one detector causes another to false alert or miss alerts altogether.

@hiddencam has some pretty great examples of this.

R3 putting nearby Magnum to sleep: https://www.rdforum.org/threads/62705/

XP preventing side-by-side Magnum 35" away from alerting properly: https://www.rdforum.org/threads/57419/

One of the annoying things about interference is that results vary from one encounter to the next as detectors sweep so while we won't see problems like that every time, they will happen other times.

With some of the other issues like delayed alerts or missed alerts, we may simply never notice at all. So it's possible for interference to be present and affecting our results without us ever having a clear way to verify and tell like @samq45 said.

So for that reason, I always think it's safer to say something along the lines of "I didn't notice any signs of interference" as opposed to "There was no interference." That's exactly what you did in the OP and I was glad to see that. I just wish there was a way to conclusively say that in a particular setup, there is no interference of any kind happening period. That'd be amazing.