K Band Delay

flagator10

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Just received my V1G2 today (27 yr V1 User) and noticed that K band has a tremendous delay before picking up radar. I used a Kustom KR 10, Stalker Sport, and Pocket Radar to verify the issue. It's 2 to 3 seconds before K band registers at all. In fact it doesn't pick up the Pocket Radar (21.122) probably 80%~ of the time at all. Anyone else noticed this issue? Ka is super quick but I'm concerned as I have K band in my area specifically the new Stalker at 21.123, who use instant on. With this delay I'm afraid I wouldn't pick up the signal. I've been using the R3 as a stopgap over the years as the range was better than my old V1. BTW the R3 doesn't have this delay at all on K band so wondering if my unit is defective...
 

dudeinnz

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Doesn't the V1G2 have a "K Verifier" setting? Could that be causing the problem?
I think a few of us have bench tested it with boh KV on and off and the delay on K still persisted. @OBeerWANKenobi and @Brainstorm69 can comment further if they wish.

Here is some testing, not sure if anyone has done similar testing since the new update?
 
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DocTJ

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The delay is a trade off for better filtering and less BSM alerts.
unfortunately it is not feasible to turn off K verifier as it makes the detector alert to everything.

as far as I know there’s no solution. For times when instant on K is a concern depending on my traveling, I run a different detector.
 
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Transporter

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I believe you mean 24.122 GHz because the V1G2 does not receive at 21.122 and the PR has a center frequency of 24.125GHz.

The Pocket Radar is a very lower power device and if its battery is low even lower output power. It is designed for use on a baseball at under 100 feet, not for simulated real world testing of RDs or accurately checking traffic speeds. From what I have read, it also doesn't operate exactly like a Police Radar Device (I don't have one to test to verify this) which I believe is due to wantng to save power and a need to not cause it to overheat. With all the new updates and firmware tweaking on the V1G2, I am betting it "Thinks" the PR is BSM and is fighting/trying its best to "Filter" it out instead of Alerting.

Just my thoughts without being able to actually test one.

.
 

aocsgil

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What is your mode setting?... If you are running the Gen2 set on Big "L" (advance logic ) mode... This will have a huge impact on K-band sensitivity... Advance logic mode (Big L) has a long delay on reporting K-band alerts, Logic mode (small l) has less of a delay and All bogeys mode (A) has no delay in reporting K-band alerts.... So you need to experiment with the 3 mode settings to see which setting works best for your situation/area.... Remember the reason for the delay is because the the detector computer is determining if a K alert is a genuine threat or not, K-band is where the majority of false alerts occur (BSM,CAS, electronic door openers, business security systems, etc.)... Additionally mode settings has little to no effect on Ka-band alerts...
 

Trinity

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So the g2 has a IO delay and a crazy k band delay that can mean a ticket. Ouch, hopefully VR can fine tune these issues in future firmware.
 

Trinity

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What is your mode setting?... If you are running the Gen2 set on Big "L" (advance logic ) mode... This will have a huge impact on K-band sensitivity... Advance logic mode (Big L) has a long delay on reporting K-band alerts, Logic mode (small l) has less of a delay and All bogeys mode (A) has no delay in reporting K-band alerts.... So you need to experiment with the 3 mode settings to see which setting works best for your situation/area.... Remember the reason for the delay is because the the detector computer is determining if a K alert is a genuine threat or not, K-band is where the majority of false alerts occur (BSM,CAS, electronic door openers, business security systems, etc.)... Additionally mode settings has little to no effect on Ka-band alerts...


This video is showing the opposite. "A" mode still has a huge delay unless you turn off k verifer which makes the detector false way too much when off.
 

Brainstorm69

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Just received my V1G2 today (27 yr V1 User) and noticed that K band has a tremendous delay before picking up radar. I used a Kustom KR 10, Stalker Sport, and Pocket Radar to verify the issue. It's 2 to 3 seconds before K band registers at all. In fact it doesn't pick up the Pocket Radar (21.122) probably 80%~ of the time at all. Anyone else noticed this issue? Ka is super quick but I'm concerned as I have K band in my area specifically the new Stalker at 21.123, who use instant on. With this delay I'm afraid I wouldn't pick up the signal. I've been using the R3 as a stopgap over the years as the range was better than my old V1. BTW the R3 doesn't have this delay at all on K band so wondering if my unit is defective...
While the V1G2 does have a delay on K-band (most detectors do due to BSM filtering), in my testing I have not seen any 2 to 3 second delays. Perhaps you are overdriving the detector when you are testing.
 

westwind77

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Unfortunately, there is fairly good delay, however not 2-3 seconds - at least with my unit. I have seen that happen if over-driving the unit though. The V1G2 is lightning quick with Ka and I only wish they could port that over to K band as well. Maybe the filtering algorithms just take that long to run through though. I know we have expressed concern over this on the forum many times. Hopefully VR is listening and will improve this with their next update.
 

aocsgil

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@Trinity...Yea I see that ... I am just going by what the V1Gen2 Manual says about the analyzer mode settings in particular All-Bogeys mode A "All bogeys will be reported at the initial volume as soon as they are detected. Use your judgement to decide whether or not they are threats."....Unfortunately the manual doesn't give any information on K verifier (that I could find) on how it works or how much of a delay is added...
 

flagator10

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I believe you mean 24.122 GHz because the V1G2 does not receive at 21.122 and the PR has a center frequency of 24.125GHz.

The Pocket Radar is a very lower power device and if its battery is low even lower output power. It is designed for use on a baseball at under 100 feet, not for simulated real world testing of RDs or accurately checking traffic speeds. From what I have read, it also doesn't operate exactly like a Police Radar Device (I don't have one to test to verify this) which I believe is due to wantng to save power and a need to not cause it to overheat. With all the new updates and firmware tweaking on the V1G2, I am betting it "Thinks" the PR is BSM and is fighting/trying its best to "Filter" it out instead of Alerting.

Just my thoughts without being able to actually test one.

.
Correct, typo on the frequency. The Pocket Radar actually transmits for a brief period which is less than what V1 is alerting to. However utilizing a Kustom or Stalker K band offers the same results. It takes some time as others have noted for it to pick up. Instant on is not detected with K-verifier on unless it is left to transmit.
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Unfortunately, there is fairly good delay, however not 2-3 seconds - at least with my unit. I have seen that happen if over-driving the unit though. The V1G2 is lightning quick with Ka and I only wish they could port that over to K band as well. Maybe the filtering algorithms just take that long to run through though. I know we have expressed concern over this on the forum many times. Hopefully VR is listening and will improve this with their next update.
Agree, with you on hoping they fix it as instant on would completely defeat it with k-verifier on. I'll time it tonight but it was a long period of time before it alerted...
Post automatically merged:

What is your mode setting?... If you are running the Gen2 set on Big "L" (advance logic ) mode... This will have a huge impact on K-band sensitivity... Advance logic mode (Big L) has a long delay on reporting K-band alerts, Logic mode (small l) has less of a delay and All bogeys mode (A) has no delay in reporting K-band alerts.... So you need to experiment with the 3 mode settings to see which setting works best for your situation/area.... Remember the reason for the delay is because the the detector computer is determining if a K alert is a genuine threat or not, K-band is where the majority of false alerts occur (BSM,CAS, electronic door openers, business security systems, etc.)... Additionally mode settings has little to no effect on Ka-band alerts...
Ran it in small L.
 
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Bloovy One

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I vote over-driving as well. I can replicate a long 2-3 second delay with close proximity testing. That doesn't mean that VR isn't working on improving the more well-tested delay concerns. Brainstorm was seeing some sporadic concerns below 1.3 seconds as I recall.
 
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Trinity

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I vote over-driving as well. I can replicate a long 2-3 delay with close proximity testing. That doesn't mean that VR isn't working on improving the more well-tested delay concerns. Brainstorm was seeing some sporadic concerns below 1.3 seconds as I recall.
This makes me feel better. Hopefully it was over driving.
 

OBeerWANKenobi

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@flagator10 , you can try to mitigate any overdriving concerns by putting the detector and gun in separate rooms or otherwise attenuating the signal. Also, certain guns, like my Decatur, give detectors more problems than others.
 

LouG

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In practice I can pass a Redflex facing away and get an instant K band alert on the rear antenna as I pass. A Mode, KV on.
I don't see delays.
 

flagator10

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Unfortunately, there is fairly good delay, however not 2-3 seconds - at least with my unit. I have seen that happen if over-driving the unit though. The V1G2 is lightning quick with Ka and I only wish they could port that over to K band as well. Maybe the filtering algorithms just take that long to run through though. I know we have expressed concern over this on the forum many times. Hopefully VR is listening and will improve this with their next update.

You are correct, KA is super fast!!! I don't feel like it's an over driving issue as I moved the units away from the V1G2 when testing at different distances and angles to see if there was an impact. Bottom line, my old V1 was definitely faster than the V1G2 on K instant shots, and as ObeerWanKenobi tested, the R series definitely alerts much quicker..... My worry is it appears Valentine is programming a timeout figure in the algorythym to diminish K band ( due to tremendous falsing in the K range) an it's affecting quick trigger K detection.... Ka.. No contest V1G2 is amazing for sure..
 

Bloovy One

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If you are close enough to observe the Gen2 alerting while pulling the trigger of the source, you might be overdriving it. ;)
 

OBeerWANKenobi

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I would say that generally, if your signal strength shows less than full on the detector, you're probably not overdriving it. Ideally get it down to a couple bars.
 

WildOne

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I have been a V1(G1) user since they first came out in the 90s. Escort before that. Both of those units responded to K IO in fractions of a second. The V1 is faster than what I remember the old escort being. V1G1 responds to K IO or Ka IO in much less than 100ms.... I can't easily measure the instantaneous response.

I just received the new V1G2. Very disappointed. With or without the K verifier on, modes A, l or L, it takes 1 sec to respond to an almost full power signal(ie not over driven). For a weak signal, it is faster- about .5 sec. Neither of these times is good.

Ka is instantaneous. The same as the V1G1.

This was measured in the lab with an HP/Agilent microwave signal generator.

Valentine needs to fix this ASAP, as I can't even run without the verifier to catch instant on radars. Did I mention if the radar is on for less than a second, it doesn't respond AT ALL!!

And yes, this one second does matter. Because in a good enough car, you can outbreak the Radar so that it doesn't get a consistent reading until you get off the brakes.... ask me how I know....

There is also a POP problem that I will post in a new thread.
 

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