Value of V1G2 + JBV1 approach vs. Theia approach?

dn325ci

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Perhaps a 2 or 3 beer question, but seeing how freakishly powerful the V1G2 + JBV1 combination is, it makes me wonder about the strategy of a Theia approach. Some would say the G2 should have had on-board GPS. I have come to the belief that on-board GPS is now 2000-late. Like so many industries and products that have been improved by the smartphone, is seems an efficient approach is great radar detection hardware and a great open-API way to connect to much richer capabilities of where phones are going and the incredible investment those giant companies are making in them.

I ponder what value comes from putting the computing/processing platform on the RD? It adds enormous cost and development inefficiencies for the RD manufacturers. My humble view is the small radar detector companies cannot possibly invest in hardware platforms & software like the phone guys & developer community can. I personally believe that Theia cannot possibly keep up and now I'd rather be on a phone platform for that stuff.

Just a thought that perhaps I should have kept to myself. If this has been discussed elsewhere, my apologies.
 

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The compute power in Theia is to allow positive Radar identification of all real threats rather than heuristic approaches with “Radar (of all kinds) Detector”. It so happens you can use that power for other things and possibly simplify the (optional) mobile phone side. Theia is a “Police Radar Gun Identifier” not a “Radar detector”.
 

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On-board GPS I think is a great idea. You can leverage a lot of the same capabilities from a phone, for sure, but why should we need to be tethered to an app? There's always a little latency between phone and RD interaction so even if you're relying on your phone for GPS-based filtering, often times you're going to get an initial alert from the RD before the phone can tell the RD to mute. Having GPS directly in the RD speeds up and simplifies the process. It works better out of the box and makes it easier non-enthusiasts to just plug it in and go.

I LOVE having a phone tied to a phone, but I'd rather it be for bonus features, not for basic features.

With Theia, I think that if you love what VR has done with the Open API, Radenso will let developers take it that much further. It'll not only offer an open API, but it'll also be open source so people can start customizing, tweaking, and tuning the detectors directly, no phone required. I think it'll be the best of both worlds... integrated GPS plus a phone to add more features, then making it better still by letting you customize the detector itself.
 

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The big selling point for Theia is the ability to discriminate between legitimate police radar signals and other signals appearing in the same frequency range. And that's where the on-board computer comes in.

The V1G2 has K band range that isn't super impressive. But that was a tradeoff in order to make it quieter. The R7 has better K range, but with full sensitivity it falses too much for many people and they turn the sensitivity down.

Now imagine a detector that only alerts to genuine police radar (maybe some on speed signs that use actual police radar units, but never to BSMs, door openers etc). You could crank the sensitivity up to much greater levels before it got overly noisy for the user. And with the ability to distinguish between I/O and C/O (demonstrated in the prototype), you'd be able to know which faint signals are OK to ignore for a while, and which ones should have you on your guard. That's what Radenso is telling us Theia will do.

Would it be technically possible to outsource the signal discrimination computing to a smartphone? Maybe? But even if you could, it would probably be less effective. Also if you did it that way, the detector would be an utter nightmare when not paired with a phone. The V1G2 is still a very good detector without a phone connected. Theia with "outboard" AI would not.
 

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Would it be technically possible to outsource the signal discrimination computing to a smartphone? Maybe? But even if you could, it would probably be less effective. Also if you did it that way, the detector would be an utter nightmare when not paired with a phone. The V1G2 is still a very good detector without a phone connected. Theia with "outboard" AI would not.
The main problem with outsourcing any kind of signal processing to the phone is that there is no practical way to get a meaningful amount of samples to the phone for it to process them. You can't just send the sample data over BT/WiFi for various technical reasons.

Where phones are awesome is adding context and doing heuristics on information that has ALREADY been processed.

Basically, you need to do the actual signal processing locally in the detector (any detector, not just Theia) but then phones can be incredibly powerful after that step.
 

cihkal

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Perhaps a 2 or 3 beer question, but seeing how freakishly powerful the V1G2 + JBV1 combination is, it makes me wonder about the strategy of a Theia approach. Some would say the G2 should have had on-board GPS. I have come to the belief that on-board GPS is now 2000-late. Like so many industries and products that have been improved by the smartphone, is seems an efficient approach is great radar detection hardware and a great open-API way to connect to much richer capabilities of where phones are going and the incredible investment those giant companies are making in them.

I ponder what value comes from putting the computing/processing platform on the RD? It adds enormous cost and development inefficiencies for the RD manufacturers. My humble view is the small radar detector companies cannot possibly invest in hardware platforms & software like the phone guys & developer community can. I personally believe that Theia cannot possibly keep up and now I'd rather be on a phone platform for that stuff.

Just a thought that perhaps I should have kept to myself. If this has been discussed elsewhere, my apologies.
I agree, a very interesting topic to discuss. Maybe more appropriate over a beer, or fine herb.

I will say, tough sell for me to consider others when I can spend $500 on a powerful platform that currently I can run in essentially default mode (X+K rear mute on) without worrying about performance or BSM falses, stationary for that manner as well... all while living in Chicago and commuting out!

Clean in-home updates and the V1 G2 utilizes a FPGA... am I set for years? 😜
Screenshot_20200803-115255~2.png
 
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LouG

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There is no selling point. There is no Theia. There is an electronic foetus at Radenso though.
With the lack of any real world comparison, Gen 2 is the better device, Gen2/JBV1 is in another league to anything else, and more than likely remain so if/when Theia goes on sale.
If nothing else, you will be able to have two Gen2's for the price of one Theia for your fleet.

And, Vortex. You ask why we should be tethered to an app, then praise the possibilities of Theia being tethered to an app.
Which is it?
Besides, you need a great, totally dedicated app designer to truly explore the possibilities of an app system.

You also seem to have forgotten about packaging. I can have a stealthy, almost unnoticeable positioning of my Gen2, and a 5.5" display sitting in open view on the dash that looks just like a......cellphone. With the dimensions I've seen discussed of Theia to be, that will be impossible. It'll have to be on the dash, or in the middle of the windscreen. Both completely unacceptable to me.
And then you want to add a phone too?

The bottom line is that no detector can approach the capabilities of a well designed app based system.
 

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With the open API and the onboard GPS.... will rock some of the manufacturers to their core. I look forward to it. I just started working so Theia may become a reality for me......
 
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Kennyc56

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My only problem with apps was that they can't make up for a lack of range or off axis. My R1's, Redline-O's and several other detectors could still spank the old V1G1 with or without an app. The V1G2 is a whole different story! I've come full circle. My R1's and Redline's made me put my V1G1 in the closet! Guess where my V1G2 /JBV1 combo has put my R1's and Redline's now?
 
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Signal Environment

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There is no selling point. There is no Theia. There is an electronic foetus at Radenso though.
With the lack of any real world comparison, Gen 2 is the better device, Gen2/JBV1 is in another league to anything else, and more than likely remain so if/when Theia goes on sale.
If nothing else, you will be able to have two Gen2's for the price of one Theia for your fleet.

And, Vortex. You ask why we should be tethered to an app, then praise the possibilities of Theia being tethered to an app.
Which is it?
Besides, you need a great, totally dedicated app designer to truly explore the possibilities of an app system.

You also seem to have forgotten about packaging. I can have a stealthy, almost unnoticeable positioning of my Gen2, and a 5.5" display sitting in open view on the dash that looks just like a......cellphone. With the dimensions I've seen discussed of Theia to be, that will be impossible. It'll have to be on the dash, or in the middle of the windscreen. Both completely unacceptable to me.
And then you want to add a phone too?

The bottom line is that no detector can approach the capabilities of a well designed app based system.
;)

1596476443030.png
 

alloy00

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There is no selling point. There is no Theia. There is an electronic foetus at Radenso though.
With the lack of any real world comparison, Gen 2 is the better device, Gen2/JBV1 is in another league to anything else, and more than likely remain so if/when Theia goes on sale.
If nothing else, you will be able to have two Gen2's for the price of one Theia for your fleet.

And, Vortex. You ask why we should be tethered to an app, then praise the possibilities of Theia being tethered to an app.
Which is it?
Besides, you need a great, totally dedicated app designer to truly explore the possibilities of an app system.

You also seem to have forgotten about packaging. I can have a stealthy, almost unnoticeable positioning of my Gen2, and a 5.5" display sitting in open view on the dash that looks just like a......cellphone. With the dimensions I've seen discussed of Theia to be, that will be impossible. It'll have to be on the dash, or in the middle of the windscreen. Both completely unacceptable to me.
And then you want to add a phone too?

The bottom line is that no detector can approach the capabilities of a well designed app based system.
I never quite can tell if the V1 is your preferred radar CM. ;)
 

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And, Vortex. You ask why we should be tethered to an app, then praise the possibilities of Theia being tethered to an app.
Which is it?
Besides, you need a great, totally dedicated app designer to truly explore the possibilities of an app system.
If there's any confusion, simply reread what I said. I said I don't want to have to be tied to a phone for basic functionality (ie. GPS). However, I like it as an addon for bonus features. I do like that phones can do some of the basic things better (ie. more sophisticated lockouts), but I personally don't want to have to tether to a phone for what I feel are basic features. This applies to the V1 Gen2 since it lacks built in GPS, but it doesn't apply to Theia which has GPS built in. I also mention how Theia may be able to do a lot of the cool third party stuff directly and without a phone at all because it will be designed to be open source itself.

You also seem to have forgotten about packaging. I can have a stealthy, almost unnoticeable positioning of my Gen2, and a 5.5" display sitting in open view on the dash that looks just like a......cellphone. With the dimensions I've seen discussed of Theia to be, that will be impossible. It'll have to be on the dash, or in the middle of the windscreen. Both completely unacceptable to me.
Size-wise it'll be comparable to the Max 360c. If that's a dealbreaker for you, that's totally fine. Your preferences and needs determine what's optimal for your specific use case.

The smaller size of the V1 Gen2 is nice. It fits above my RVM and my RL360c doesn't so I gotta run the RL on my Blendmount. Again, pros and cons to everything.

The bottom line is that no detector can approach the capabilities of a well designed app based system.
Lou, IMHO you really gotta take a step back sometimes and consider that there's pros and cons to everything. Plus we all have different needs and use cases. There's a lot of advantages to using a phone for sure. There's also many disadvantages.

For me, I love the V1 Gen2, but as an iOS user who runs a second Android for JBV1 to get the features I want, that means an extra phone, mount, and power cable. It means more to put up and take down every time I drive if I don't want a phone visible to criminals. It means that with Covid, my phone sits on my dash for days at a time while my car is parked in my garage and if I don't take the phone home to charge, I may come back to my car with a dead phone battery and so I have to mess with getting everything going again when I just want to drive. It means that now that it's summer, when the phone overheats in my car while it's parked, my phone will refuse to start JBV1 until it cools off. It just doesn't work as seamlessly and smoothly as other options that are available.

Don't get me wrong. I love the functionality that a phone offers. I just am not a fan of the many of the downsides that using a phone the way I use it brings. In my experience, using a phone is simply not the end-all-be-all. If it is for you, I'm thrilled for you and happy that you've found a solution that meets all of your needs.
 
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dn325ci

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Super interesting viewpoints here. I'm very impressed with the V1G2 + JBV1 combination, and so I'm wondering how far that model can be taken. Agree with @Jon at Radenso and @Vortex and others making their point as there is plainly obvious value and limitations to tethering in a smart phone. The display alone for data makes it a far richer system.

I think the @Jon at Radenso point is interesting about how far you can take it depends upon the speed of the connection between the RD and the phone. Some computers have gone to external GPUs enabled by high speed transfer. Hmm.

It also seems possible to me that Theia will be great for the first 2 years then the computer part of the system becomes outdated due to the inevitable march of technology. If you could find a way to utilize the phone platform, seems more viable for a longer time. Anyway, what do I know - newbie.
 

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The comparison to V1G2 + JBV1 needs to be vs Theia + jbv1 or a similar app, so yes we will have to wait for that, but I dont think much longer...
Post automatically merged:

“It also seems possible to me that Theia will be great for the first 2 years then the computer part of the system becomes outdated due to the inevitable march of technology. If you could find a way to utilize the phone platform, seems more viable for a longer time”

Radenso curious to hear your thoughts on this ^
 

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The comparison to V1G2 + JBV1 needs to be vs Theia + jbv1 or a similar app, so yes we will have to wait for that, but I dont think much longer...
Post automatically merged:

“It also seems possible to me that Theia will be great for the first 2 years then the computer part of the system becomes outdated due to the inevitable march of technology. If you could find a way to utilize the phone platform, seems more viable for a longer time”

Radenso curious to hear your thoughts on this ^
I would be happy to elaborate in the Radenso section if you want to start a thread there, but I don't want to steer this off-topic in the Valentine section. I would suggest everyone keep on-topic so this thread doesn't get locked.
 

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