TXCTG – Testing the new Redline 360c – Low-Powered K, Ka 35.5, 34.7, and 33.8 - Waco Pioneer Pkwy 07-25-2020

Kennyc56

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Once again great testing Brian and Jag! I'll say this, that update that Escort came up with has to be the mother of all updates! Wow, what a difference it made for the Redline 360! I'm looking forward to seeing what we'll get for the V1G2 from VR to fix our issues with Ghosting and the ramp. If it's half as good as this update from Escort, we'll be golden! Thanks again for your time and effort you guys put into this test! Edit...Looks like Escort actually has a Redline to be proud of again!
 
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RadarScout

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INTRO

@Vortex (thanks!) recently sent me his Redline 360c so TXCTG could do some testing with it down in Waco. So @Jag42 and I met up in Waco yesterday to put put it through its paces for a comparison to both the V1G2 and the Uniden R7.

As is always the case, we had a limited amount of time to test (and in this case also the threat of rain in the afternoon), but were able to test low-powered K-band, Ka 35.5, 34.7 and 33.8. Knowing this, we did only test one unit of each detector. Not optimal, but sometimes you have to work with limitations. In the future, it would be great to see some testing with multiple copies of each detector to see if there is much variability across units. Maybe @hiddencam can have another "calling all detectors" blow-out like he has done in the past. Or maybe we can do something along those lines sometime.

THE DETECTORS

Escort Redline 360c (Vortex) – (fw 1.3) Settings: Hwy and Auto, Laser on, Ka seg’d 2/5/8, K Wide, MRCD off, MRCT off, Pop off

Valentine 1 Gen 2 (Jag42) – (fw 4.1018) Settings: A mode and Big L, CF on, K Verifier on, X off (but see note at end of K-band rear testing comments re doing a reset to default settings, which turned CF off and X band on)

Uniden R7 (BS69) – (fw 1.29) Settings: Hwy and Advanced, Laser on, Ka seg'd 2/4/5/6/8, X off, K Wide, KF on, TSF on, K Block on, MRCD off, all Pop settings off

THE RADAR GUNS

MPH Python II FS with antennas tuned for 35.5, 34.7, and 33.8

Kustom Signals Falcon HR Low-power K-band

In some of the Ka tests, we were forced to angle the antennas across the road to cut down signal strength (35.5 ~20*, 34.7 ~30* and 33.8 ~40*), or we would have run out of course or raised the suspicions of the rancher whose driveway we would have had to turn around in. Realize that these tests are not necessarily representative of the real world in terms of detection distances you are likely to see from any of these detectors from LEOs shooting straight down a straight road. But it does highlight sensitivity differences (or lack thereof) between detectors for the purpose of showing those that have a better chance of catching weak signals, whatever the cause (distance, foliage, hills, curves, etc.). Note that the antennas were angled out over fields with little to nothing to reflect off of to affect results.

THE COURSE


So, many of you have seen the Pioneer Pkwy test course before. It’s long, straight and flat. This time we ran it backwards since we had the threat of rain and could use the back my wife’s minivan to set up the equipment to keep it safe from rain. We set up in the driveway to a small pump station we normally just park one of the cars in anyway. We shot the radar out the side window at the back of the minivan.

Here’s an overhead of the course.

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Here's a picture of where we set up the radar car.

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Here’s a picture of the open fields towards which the radar was angled in the Ka testing.

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RESULTS

Low-powered K-Band Front Detection (Table by detector; Table by ranked avg; Graph by ranked avg)


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Low-powered K-Band Front Detection Commentary

  • Radar gun (Falcon HR) was pointed on-axis
  • The Kill Zone was a rather short 325 meters, so all the detectors in all modes gave plenty of warning.
  • The biggest surprise was the Redline 360c’s front antenna K-band sensitivity in Hwy mode. But there were some drops of the signal between its initial alert and the point where the other detectors got their first alerts.
  • We (somewhat by accident as we weren’t intending to test it in Hwy) did do one run with the Uniden in Hwy mode with KF on and TSF on at the beginning of the K-band testing, and it was not out there with the RL360c. It was 3622 meters. As it was only one run, we did not include it in the results, but mention it here just as a data point.
  • Another noteworthy data point is that the RL360c in Auto mode at 55-60 mph not appear not as sensitive as Hwy mode, as you can see from the results. It even lagged a bit behind the R7 in City mode and the V1G2 in Advanced Logic Mode.
  • The R7 in Adv mode K=40% lagged just a bit behind V1G2 in A mode.

Low-powered K-Band Rear Detection (Table by detector; Table by ranked avg; Graph by ranked avg)

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Low-powered K-Band Rear Detection Commentary
  • On the rear detections, thing were a little more even between the detectors.
  • The RL360c still led the pack, but not by that much. Strangely, in Auto mode, it actually beat its rear detections in Hwy mode. That’s a head scratcher.
  • The V1G2 in A mode was barely behind, and the R7 in Adv K=40% was a bit further behind still.
  • City mode didn’t cost the R7 much in the long, straight, flat course.
  • The V1G2 in Advanced Logic mode lagged behind, which seems a bit strange given that on the front detections, the V1G2 in Advanced Logic was right there with the R7 in City and RL360c in Auto.
  • At first, Jag42’s V1G2 wasn’t alerting at all from behind. We used JBV1 to figure out he had rear X&K muted. So we told JBV1 to reset it to factory defaults and that did the trick. That said, we didn’t think about the fact that that also turned X on. So from this point forward (i.e., for all the rear K-band V1G2 testing, and all the Ka testing, the V1G2 had X-Band on, and the other detectors did not). However, it is my understanding that the V1G2 still scans X-Band even when it is turned off, so it should not have affected the results.
  • I really think we need to reevaluate how we test rear detections and find a good way to mount the detectors with the rear antenna facing forwards. We noticed several instances during testing we could drive away from the gun at a particular distance and not get a rear detection, but when we drove back far enough to get a rear detection and then drove away from the guns, the detector would continue to alert considerably beyond the point where it had failed to alert from the rear if we drove away from the radar source without having already acquired a signal. Due to this, as well as time considerations, we decided not to do rear detections for Ka.

Ka 35.5 Front Detection (Table by detector; Table by ranked avg; Graph by ranked avg)

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Ka 35.5 Commentary

  • We initially had the radar antenna pointed on-axis down the course, but initial couple of detections by the V1G2 were far enough down the course (3912 and 3924 meters) that we were going to have to be turning around in the driveway of one of the ranchs/farms rather than at an intersection or other public turn-around. The owner had already seen us make some turn-arounds in his driveway previously and had given us the “evil eye.” So rather than have him potentially call the cops on us for suspicious activity, we decided to angle the antenna and attenuate the signal.
  • Not much to say otherwise here, except that all the detectors were pretty darn close in detection range. The V1G2 did manage the longest 35.5 detection of the day, but not by a lot.

Ka 34.7 Front Detection (Table by detector; Table by ranked avg; Graph by ranked avg)

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Ka 34.7 Commentary
  • For 34.7, we knew we would have to attenuate the signal a bit more, so we increased the angle of the antenna across the road to ~30 degrees.
  • Again, not much to say here as the detections were all pretty close. But the R7 did lag by a little bit.

Ka 33.8 Front Detection (Table by detector; Table by rank; Graph by rank)

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Ka 33.8 Commentary
  • For 33.8, we knew we would have to attenuate the signal even a little more, so we increased the angle of the antenna across the road to ~40 degrees.
  • We got a tiny bit more separation here, but not much. The Redline 360c lead the pack.
  • One thing to note here is that as we started the R7s runs (the last of the day), it started raining on the course, so the R7 may have been hampered a bit by the rain, but still did pretty well anyway.

FINAL THOUGHTS

It’s always exciting to take a new detector out for some initial TXCTG testing. We’ve seen some testing from others, and it’s always fun for me to see how the TXCTG results compare to others’ testing.

One thing I do want to note is that the similarity of the Ka band results may have people wondering if the was some course limitation causing the similar results. I don’t think that’s the case, as the V1G2 did have a couple of considerably longer 35.5 runs when it was pointed on-axis down the course on 35.5. However, I can’t see radio waves, so I could be wrong. ;-)

While the new Escort Redline 360c had a very rocky launch, with the 1.2 fw update Escort seems to have corrected some of the most problematic issues experienced by RDF members at launch. It looks like the Redline is right up there with the current best when it comes to sensitivity and range performance. I am beginning to thing that with the current crop of top-line detectors, detection distance is much less of a buying factor then personal preferences with respect to other matters, like features, price, app availability, BSM filtering, and reactivity.

I will end with my usual admonishment: This is just one test. Don’t ever base your opinion of a detector on just one test. You need to look at various tests, by various people, at various times, on various courses to try to get to a complete picture of any detector. So make sure to look at as many tests as you can, and find out as much information as you can so you can make an informed opinion about a detector. Hopefully, we’ll see even more testing of these detectors, so you can get an even better picture of their relative performance against each other.
Great work guys! It's great that we have 3 detectors, (soon to have another), that perform at extremely high levels. It's really nice that we all have more choices, based on desired features, without sacrificing sensitivity/performance. It's also great that we have dedicated testers that invest their own time and money for the benefit of the CM community AND manufacturers.
 

nomore55

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Vortex

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Thanks so much for the testing gents! It’s a ton of time and energy and I appreciate you doing all this for all our benefit. :)

Great showing again by the RL360c, especially on K band.

I also agree that the big differences with these detectors are in all the other features besides range. It’s good to see we have another top performer available as an option.
 

RoadDogg

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As others have said, great job on the testing.
Thanks for taking the time, effort, and hard work for theses tests for the RDF.

The R7 did really great with K-band at 40% against the R360c and the V1G2 at full K-band sensitivity. I did see the mention of the one run with the R7 on Highway mode. The R360c did very well on K-band.

Ka band testing showed all three detectors are right there with each other. It is like three heavyweight contenders or three legendary pro wrestlers battling out it out in the ring. All three detectors represented.

As people have mentioned, all three of these detectors are strong performers, it just boils down to the features, price, design, and personal preferences as which is the best choice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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asleeper

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Tighter than I would've thought, especially on Ka. For real world purposes you could say they're all equal. Pretty much rules out range as a deciding factor between them. K was a bit more surprising with the RL360's notable edge. @nomore55, yeah wouldn't be the first time juiced units have been sent to testers. Thanks again for the test results.
 

fishing66

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Blown away by the redline's k-band. it's used all around me on country side roads in the form of instant on where this crazy long distance would be a huge plus. Thanks guys. really having a hard time waiting for Theia!

The R7 was at 40% sensitivity for the K band runs whereas the Redline was at Max (pun intended) sensitivity. It was essentially a dead heat when the R7 was in City Mode and the Redline was in Auto mode. If memory serves correctly, City Mode on the R7 cuts sensitivity down to 15%. The test course looks flat and open and hills, buildings, vegetation, humidity, curved roads etc will cut down on detection distance. Many encounters will be terrain-limited depending on where you live and drive.

K band has become such a bleeping nuisance that I would take a detector with dead-on filtering over one that had longer range but suboptimal filtering. As always, K band came from Satan's anus.
 
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surprisinguy

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Awesome job, thanks to you both for all the time, energy and gas!
Great write up - graphs and info spot on
 

Vortex

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A few more thoughts as I read over this again. :)

In the future, it would be great to see some testing with multiple copies of each detector to see if there is much variability across units. Maybe @hiddencam can have another "calling all detectors" blow-out like he has done in the past. Or maybe we can do something along those lines sometime.

Ooh that'd be great! They're on back order at the moment so it's tough to get these right now (though they did resume shipping a few days ago), plus I'm sure that everyone who has a RL360c right now is eager to put it through its paces and get some seat time out of the gate. Hopefully as time goes on, we'll be able to get multiple copies of the detector together to do a big shootout like that. :)

We (somewhat by accident as we weren’t intending to test it in Hwy) did do one run with the Uniden in Hwy mode with KF on and TSF on at the beginning of the K-band testing, and it was not out there with the RL360c. It was 3622 meters. As it was only one run, we did not include it in the results, but mention it here just as a data point.

I'm really glad you had a chance to do a run with the Uniden in Hwy mode so we could see how it compares to the RL360c in Hwy mode. They performed the same for me in my last test, but I was also terrain limited so it's nice to learn that the RL360c can give longer detections when it has the opportunity.

Another noteworthy data point is that the RL360c in Auto mode at 55-60 mph not appear not as sensitive as Hwy mode, as you can see from the results. It even lagged a bit behind the R7 in City mode and the V1G2 in Advanced Logic Mode.

Interesting... IIRC, someone else has mentioned this before as well. Maybe even you with another Escort detector in another test? Either way, it looks like there is some filtering that's going on that isn't fully disabled, even at speed? @JSherbondy @Cedar Electronics CTO

The RL360c still led the pack, but not by that much. Strangely, in Auto mode, it actually beat its rear detections in Hwy mode. That’s a head scratcher.

I saw the same thing in my test. It seems like once the detector alerts, even with Auto/AutoLoK, it continues to hold onto the signal at full sensitivity and so the sensitivity reductions are just for the initial alert.

I really think we need to reevaluate how we test rear detections and find a good way to mount the detectors with the rear antenna facing forwards. We noticed several instances during testing we could drive away from the gun at a particular distance and not get a rear detection, but when we drove back far enough to get a rear detection and then drove away from the guns, the detector would continue to alert considerably beyond the point where it had failed to alert from the rear if we drove away from the radar source without having already acquired a signal. Due to this, as well as time considerations, we decided not to do rear detections for Ka.

Interesting... Yeah I've thought about the best way to do rear tests as well. @ferius has suggested putting a box on the dash and setting the RD on it backwards, listening for the alerts. That might be the quickest/easiest way to do it.

We initially had the radar antenna pointed on-axis down the course, but initial couple of detections by the V1G2 were far enough down the course (3912 and 3924 meters) that we were going to have to be turning around in the driveway of one of the ranchs/farms rather than at an intersection or other public turn-around. The owner had already seen us make some turn-arounds in his driveway previously and had given us the “evil eye.” So rather than have him potentially call the cops on us for suspicious activity, we decided to angle the antenna and attenuate the signal.

lol, having good turn-arounds is SO key... no neighbors getting upset, a convenient location relative to where you need to turn around, paved roads instead of gravel, good visibility in both directions as you turn around, the ability to stop and mess with settings or whatever for a bit before doing the next run, etc.
 

Brainstorm69

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@Brainstorm69 Thank you for all the time and energy you put into doing these tests. I personally appreciate everything you and vortex have done for this community. Would you be doing any bench testing with 34.7 to see reactivity with R360C?
Thanks for the reminder! I need to do this before I have to send @Vortex's detector on to its next destination. Work is keeping me really busy, but I'll see what I can do.
 

BagNDrag

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Is it possible Escort sent Vortex a ringer? They'd never do something like that, would they
I agree it would be great to have multiple units for testing, but the results found with this latest test are right inline with the results I've been getting and reporting for the Redline 360c. I think so far, the results have been pretty consistent.

-Mark
 

VariableWave

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Too bad one run with the R7 on K band, wasn't at Highway with the others, to show what stretching that RD can do over others tested.... would of like to see.

Other than that, nice job.....till your next times of testings.
 
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