V1G2 poor/non existant detection against laser cameras

[Mayuri Krab]

Hi guys

As per this thread:

Western Australia [Edit : RD's now illegal from 12 Oct 2020] - Section 111 - Possible RD ban via overly broad stealth legislation

A Shit, looks like stealth units are mandatory now Crazy to ever think otherwise mate. Save the coin for the fine. 1593185131 Always wondered if active ljs were detectable eg by a particular equivalent to spectre? Or more of an inspection thing? 1593185333 Guess shops are about to shut too...

www.rdforum.org

I recently got a V1gen2 to replace my old gen1, however since getting it I've noticed it was very quiet (not one laser faults against laser crusie control from other cars vs my old Gen1 which would fault to them frequently) & twice I went past 2 mobile cams (hidden in ute) and it didn't alert anything.

I bought a laser tester as per advice from that thread and the gen 2 seem to pick up that ok, however apart from picking up that laser tester at close range (the rear side seem to be hit & miss) it can't seem to pick up anything else.

Just today after work, I noticed a mobile camera (again hidden in a ute) setup on a pretty straight stretch of road near my house so I grabbed my old V1Gen1 along with the new Gen2 and looped around the block and did a few testing myself and the results were pretty poor/disappointing.

Having the detector setup in my usual high spot next to rear view mirror on passenger side, majority of the time the gen 2 would be completely blind to the mobile camera the entire stretch even as I drove right past it. The 1 to 2 other times it gave a quick laser alert for 1/2 second from about ~100m and then never picks up the alert again even as I drive right past the camera.

This was in stark contrast with my old gen1 which would lock onto the camera not only from a longer distance but also consistently picks it every time and gave laser alert all the way till I drive pass the camera (sometimes even slightly pass it).

Tried both in a different mounting postion (center of windscreen) and again same disappointing result for the Gen 2, 4/5 passes it was blind to the camera and the one time it picked it up, again only a quick 1/2 second alert & never picked up again. Again the old gen 1 gave consistently picked the camera up everytime & alerted the whole way.

Tried the Gen 2 in both USA and Euro mode and still the same poor result and there doesn't seem to be any setting for laser anyway, the old gen 1 was preprogrammed by the shop that I bought it from (in euro mode with some k band filtering I believe)

Anything else I might have misconfigured causing the poor performance? At this point I'm thinking of returning it back to the shop I bought it and see if it can be checked for faults via warranty only bought it about ~2 weeks ago).

But I'm not sure whether anything can be found if they just use a normal laser tester to test like the one I bought (both the gen 2 & 1 picks up the tester ok).

I thought the Gen2 was basically a stealth Gen1, however the laser detection against mobile camera is piss poor in my unit, makes me wonder whether mine was faulty or the stealth tech used has a draw back of range?

Any ideas?

Thanks

 

[Smirnoff]

Send it back for repair.

 

[Bloovy One]

@Mayuri Krab,

Elaborate for me please.

Do you have radar threats too, Or are your concerns mostly laser?

The things you said about USA mode, eUro mode, etc. have nothing to do with laser so I'm hoping we are all on the same page in this discussion.

Older Gen1 units would alert and false more easily to laser. Do you know what firmware you had on your Gen1? (or last 4 of the serial number might help)

I don't encounter laser in my areas hardly at all and I no longer have laser enabled on my Gen1 or Gen2. I use a laser jammer system for laser hits.

 

[Mayuri Krab]

@Mayuri Krab,

Elaborate for me please.

Do you have radar threats too, Or are your concerns mostly laser?

Hi, I'm in Australia (Western Australia) threats are mixed depending where I'm driving to.

Roads/freeways/highways near the city is mostly always mobile speed cameras (that are usually hidden in the bush or in a camera car) which are laser based (mixture of Poliscan and Jenoptik), there are also police with Laser speed guns, although I hardly encounter them in my travels.

Out in rural/remote highways, it would mostly be police highway patrol cars running some sort of Ka or K band moving radar from their vehicles as they drive around in loops.

The things you said about USA mode, eUro mode, etc. have nothing to do with laser so I'm hoping we are all on the same page in this discussion.

Older Gen1 units would alert and false more easily to laser. Do you know what firmware you had on your Gen1? (or last 4 of the serial number might help)

I don't encounter laser in my areas hardly at all and I no longer have laser enabled on my Gen1 or Gen2. I use a laser jammer system for laser hits.

I thought Euro mode wouldn't affect laser, but was just stabbing at the dark with different settings when I did my around the block mobile camera test today.

Not sure about firmware sorry, I bought the gen1 years ago from a local shop and they programmed it for Australia before hand (Euro mode + some k/ka filtering I think), last 4 digits is 1335.

Unfortunately laser Jammers carries a whopping $1200 fine + 9 demerit points here, RDs are currently still legal, however that might change later down the month with our over zealous anti speeding government trying to introduce a even more ridiculous $3200 to $4800 fine for using/having a RD in your car. Which is why I got the gen2 as it was RDD immune.

I always thought the gen2 was just be a gen1 with stealth/RDD immunity, and somewhere I read on this forum confirms that the laser sensors/filter was unchanged between the 2 generations, which is what made me question whether I got faulty laser sensors in my unit or there's a laser sensor sensitivity/filter setting I need to change (although I can't seem to see any).

As my old gen1 was very consistent at picking up those (hidden) laser mobile speed cameras where as this gen2 seem to be blind to them 90% of the time.

 

[Bloovy One]

I'm of the opinion at this point and time that your Gen1 is likely filtering less laser than the newest Gen1 would have. Therefore, the Gen2 also won't alert as much.

Many years ago my Gen1 from 2002 would alert to the neon 3rd brake light of a GM SUV. Later versions of Gen1's did not do that anymore. (I have similar observations about a DVD remote that used to cause alerts in my older Gen1 and not my newer Gen1.)

So many people are clamoring for laser filtering on the V1 and it might be in this case that the newer filtering is working against you.

How is the radar detection of the Gen2 vs your older Gen1? You could run the older Gen1 in laser only mode and the newer Gen2 in radar only mode if there's benefit to doing so.

 

[LouG]

There was one case on here of a Gen 2 with laser detection problems.
I've found that I get a bit less falsing than my Gen 1 3.8952 version. I mainly noticed falsing from Mazdas.
My pre ESP V1's were a nightmare for laser falsing, neon signs, brake lights, refracted sunlight, you name it.
Jammers are illegal here too, but with Jam To Kill and/or JBV1 with Brake Force Detection and a tidy install they may not raise cops suspicions.

 

[sparrow34]

I have just received my gen2 and have noticed the same thing. I am in QLD so have not had a gen1 running to compare it with. I did several runs past a Poliscan in the back of a van and got nothing. I have mine mounted high and I drive a Ute, not sure if the height means it never ‘sees’ the laser. I managed to get a Laser warning testing with a remote control.

 

[DocTJ]

Poliscan is a pain even for laser jammers.
I wouldn’t , again, as is always stated , depend on a “radar” detector to detect a very small beam of light.

 

[dudeinnz]

We all know a radar detector is pretty useless against laser, however, Australians have been reliant on the V1s laser sensitivity to help them out with Poliscan for years, @winterbrew will confirm and other Australians will as well.

We do not have Poliscan in NZ yet, however my experience with the V1G2 and laser falses has actually been the other way round. I have had several laser false alerts from my V1G2 in various vehicles and mounting positions (one example - https://www.rdforum.org/threads/98151/post-1439835) - I would have gladly sent it over to you to test with the Poliscan, but unfortunately my V1G2 which I bought at the initial release died during a road-trip a few days ago, so have sent it back to the US.

I am not much of a technical man when it comes to electronics, and I do not know if laser signals get "filtered" by the V1G2 or V1G1 so to speak, but this may be the reason as bloovy mentioned.

I'm of the opinion at this point and time that your Gen1 is likely filtering less laser than the newest Gen1 would have. Therefore, the Gen2 also won't alert as much.

 

[winterbrew]

I have just received my gen2 and have noticed the same thing. I am in QLD so have not had a gen1 running to compare it with. I did several runs past a Poliscan in the back of a van and got nothing. I have mine mounted high and I drive a Ute, not sure if the height means it never ‘sees’ the laser. I managed to get a Laser warning testing with a remote control.

Are you sure they are actually Vitronic Poliscan, and not Jenoptik S350M?

In their original configuration like we had in WA before they were withdrawn from service for inaccuracy, the S350 had much lower output than poliscan, and were hard to detect even for the ALP and V1. Jenoptik re-wrote the firmware for WAPOL, and they were re-introduced 18 months later, and now have a higher lidar output.

I think @Dragons can confirm the QLD units are still tricky

 

[Dragons]

I think @Dragons can confirm the QLD units are still tricky

It seems like they are changing S350 firmware one by one, some are still bitches to detect at range, others are just spewing IR like a Poliscan..
When you drive past them the difference is obvious in appearance.

 

[Mayuri Krab]

I did several runs past a Poliscan in the back of a van and got nothing. I have mine mounted high and I drive a Ute, not sure if the height means it never ‘sees’ the laser. I managed to get a Laser warning testing with a remote control.

Sounds similar to my unit, I can say that my old Gen1 mounted up high will always alert to laser, even if the range is not great sometimes depending on how the camera is setup (at a sharp 45 deg angle or hid behind something)

We do not have Poliscan in NZ yet, however my experience with the V1G2 and laser falses has actually been the other way round. I have had several laser false alerts from my V1G2 in various vehicles and mounting positions (one example - https://www.rdforum.org/threads/98151/post-1439835) - I would have gladly sent it over to you to test with the Poliscan, but unfortunately my V1G2 which I bought at the initial release died during a road-trip a few days ago, so have sent it back to the US.

With those lasee falses, were they long alerts or very short <1 second falses?

What location (high, low, center) was your gen2 mounted on the windscreen?

Your case makes me think that my unit could have a laser sensor problem as I got no laser falses at all in the 2 weeks I had my unit.

 

[dudeinnz]

With those lasee falses, were they long alerts or very short <1 second falses?

What location (high, low, center) was your gen2 mounted on the windscreen?

Your case makes me think that my unit could have a laser sensor problem as I got no laser falses at all in the 2 weeks I had my unit.

The falses varied in length, from memory mostly short ones.
Those particular falses were with the V1G2 mounted up high near the visor.

Others have also commented on the V1g2 being quieter on laser. I guess for most this is an improvement, and in your case not good. Your description of the testing you conducted sounds like the V1G2, or your one in particular is less sensitive to laser.

See also what Dragons and Winterbrew have mentioned, could be relevant to your situation.

 

[Mayuri Krab]

Went to the place I bought it, they tested it with a blue LIDAR gun, not surprisingly it alerted fine.

They rechecked the configuration and re adjusted some settings and said to see if that helps & come back again if problem still persist, but I'm not having high hopes.

Did some more basic testing today with my laser tester, another observation to me, the gen2s laser field of view seems much narrower compared to the gen 1 especially for the rear sensor.

Old gen 1 I could place the tester at an ~30deg angle, fire away and it would still alert while the gen2 needs the tester to point pretty much straight at for it to register.

At this point It does indeed just looks like what ever new sensor/sensitivity/filter setting/construction used in the gen2 causes it to be very insensitive to the laser pluses used by either the poliscan or s350m,l conpared to the old gen1.

Plan on tracking another mobile camera and do more testing if one pops up around my area and see if the new settings the shop did would improve anything (doubt it), after that I'm kinda stuck as to whether I should return and exchange the unit for a another stealth RD (maybe Genevo M or escort EX), but I think that boat might have sailed as I have passed the change of mind period.

Bummer

Post automatically merged: Jul 27, 2020

Can the gen1 be modified to be RDD immune? Any electronic gurus? Lol

 

[Bloovy One]

They rechecked the configuration and re adjusted some settings and said to see if that helps & come back again if problem still persist, but I'm not having high hopes.

There are no laser settings to adjust. Nothing at all except ON and OFF.
If you'd rather have them make the adjustments, that's fine, but I feel it would be beneficial to your peace of mind to look at the programming options they have available to them and to know that you have the same ability to change those settings yourself easily.

Programming Your V1 | Valentine One | Radar Detectors

Simple V1 Gen2 programming changes are possible using only the front-panel controls, but the programming app allows for more subtle alterations.

www.valentine1.com

Can the gen1 be modified to be RDD immune? Any electronic gurus?

I'm suspecting that a Gen1 running Laser only does not emit the frequencies of concern. I'll check on that.

 

[GTO_04]

How old was your G1? Was it hardware version 1.7? If yes, it has a different laser sensor (photodiode) setup and IME it will have better off axis laser detection. That could be the difference. When I was running hardware (radar) 1.7 I got hit with laser from behind and my V1 still picked it up, even though it was mounted on my passenger side visor! During a 2008 test event, were were using laser to measure Spectre II detection range and my old V1 was picking up the laser at 114ft even though they were aiming the laser at my fog lights! BTW, that 114 ft. was the Spectre II detection range on my old V1.

GTO_04

 

[Bloovy One]

Can the gen1 be modified to be RDD immune? Any electronic gurus?

I'm suspecting that a Gen1 running Laser only does not emit the frequencies of concern. I'll check on that.

I stand corrected. It doesn't work the way I thought it did. Ignore this suggestion.

 

[Mayuri Krab]

How old was your G1? Was it hardware version 1.7? If yes, it has a different laser sensor (photodiode) setup and IME it will have better off axis laser detection. That could be the difference. When I was running hardware (radar) 1.7 I got hit with laser from behind and my V1 still picked it up, even though it was mounted on my passenger side visor! During a 2008 test event, were were using laser to measure Spectre II detection range and my old V1 was picking up the laser at 114ft even though they were aiming the laser at my fog lights! BTW, that 114 ft. was the Spectre II detection range on my old V1.

GTO_04

Serial number is 1335 which according to this thread would make it hardware version 1.86

I stand corrected. It doesn't work the way I thought it did. Ignore this suggestion.

That idea did came across my mind, dammit... lol

 

[GTO_04]

That’s not it then. 1.86 is a more recent hardware with the condenser lens for the front sensor.

GTO _04


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[winterbrew]

Can the gen1 be modified to be RDD immune? Any electronic gurus? Lol

One thing I found before with my V1 (G1/og) 3.8945, that if you run Ka custom sweeps 'C' mode, K on, X off, it greatly reduces the detectability down to about 10m / 30 feet running inside a vehicle with a Spectre III on max sensitivity on foot outside, than running factory default 'A' mode. This was confirmed vs a new out of box 3.8952 running Factory 'A". Never investigated so far which setting causes the large increase in detectability. Supposedly in EU they block off the rear horn with mesh, as that is supposed to be the worst culprit (then you lose the arrows).

Regardless, although I love my V1 (sold my 3.893, and bought the 3.8945 and V1C LE), I won't be running it when the WA ban comes in. If the V1G2 struggles with poli/S350, I won't be buying that either, even though its stealth.