HD Livewire

DrHow

Going “Plaid” ASAP (Tesla S) RDT refugee
Corgi Lovers
Advanced User
Lifetime Premium Member
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
3,663
Reaction score
6,114
Rode one today, charity ride. The best ride of my life. Local dealer. Anyone own one? I already have a long distance HD, this would be for local metro and rural cruising. Eco mode, looks like it beats it published range. Any thoughts?
 

Signal Environment

Learning to Fly
Beginner User
Joined
Apr 2, 2020
Messages
187
Reaction score
431
Haven't ridden one, but saw an interesting comparison in cycle world vs one of the Zero offerings. Just looking at price and spec sheet, the Zero looked like the obvious favorite, but in the real world they far preferred the Livewire
 

DrHow

Going “Plaid” ASAP (Tesla S) RDT refugee
Corgi Lovers
Advanced User
Lifetime Premium Member
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
3,663
Reaction score
6,114
Haven't ridden one, but saw an interesting comparison in cycle world vs one of the Zero offerings. Just looking at price and spec sheet, the Zero looked like the obvious favorite, but in the real world they far preferred the Livewire
Yea, got a chance to quick ride a Zero. Not the latest highest end model. No comparo with the experience, quality, function. HD much better. But, the price. Might get a bit off sticker, Plus gets the $2500 tax credit with LW. First year model for HD, in reverse of logic can hold resale value well. I am wondering if resale value loss in actual $$ will be about the same or less with HD over zero. Matters to me because, I am betting by 2022-23 model, HD will announce later battery design cells for which will add another 75-100+ miles to highway (non regen) range.

the range right now exceeds specs. For most purposes works well for me. However, I have a “benchmark”. Going from Custer SD, to Custer State Park, take the loop, and back on one charge. Or one of the many twisty tours in the Black Hills. Right now due to less regen on these loops, iffy doing on one charge. I cannot wait to go through these areas in silence listening to the natural sounds (with a slight turbine sound in background). Kind of a unusual benchmark for range. However, many sites to visit where the bike(s) would be trailered to, would want a round trip range without fear or of juice. In Custer, the place we stay has Fast DC charging (Livewire has standard, very cool). Tesla owners will come out this far and use for base camp to travel all around.
 
Last edited:

gwing

Learning to Fly
Beginner User
Joined
Aug 20, 2019
Messages
186
Reaction score
214
Location
Central Ohio
The livewire had a number of ECU and charging issues at launch. Those issues have been resolved, but sales are still lagging. Most people who have $30k for a motorcycle are not shopping for an electric one. With the departure of their CEO, they've shifted gears (no pun) and are re-thinking their future line-up.
 

DrHow

Going “Plaid” ASAP (Tesla S) RDT refugee
Corgi Lovers
Advanced User
Lifetime Premium Member
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
3,663
Reaction score
6,114
The livewire had a number of ECU and charging issues at launch. Those issues have been resolved, but sales are still lagging. Most people who have $30k for a motorcycle are not shopping for an electric one. With the departure of their CEO, they've shifted gears (no pun) and are re-thinking their future line-up.
Livewire for me is amazing development, and execution. Nothing like it in biking history. I made this post NOT to debate the merits. Asked if anyone owned one. With possible discussion with people who have experienced it, own one, or are interested. As the OP, I do not want you or others to distract the conversation into theories that are supposed backed up by events. That is not the point of this post. If you want to pile on with impunity, go to VR or EL area and bash them. :)
 

gwing

Learning to Fly
Beginner User
Joined
Aug 20, 2019
Messages
186
Reaction score
214
Location
Central Ohio
Livewire for me is amazing development, and execution. Nothing like it in biking history. I made this post NOT to debate the merits. Asked if anyone owned one. With possible discussion with people who have experienced it, own one, or are interested. As the OP, I do not want you or others to distract the conversation into theories that are supposed backed up by events. That is not the point of this post. If you want to pile on with impunity, go to VR or EL area and bash them. :)
Those are facts related directly to the OP topic. I have a business relationship with the Motor company, such that my livlihood depends on them selling product so that I can eat. We have one in our R&D center and I have had the opportunity to ride it as much as I wanted. I was not impressed. I want to get on my bike and go 300 miles and have the ability to go another 300 miles by just filling up at a gas station which costs about $13 and takes less than 5 minutes. I might be different from the average MC rider in that my bike takes me where I go, not the other way around. If you take factual information as a bash, then I apologize.
 

DrHow

Going “Plaid” ASAP (Tesla S) RDT refugee
Corgi Lovers
Advanced User
Lifetime Premium Member
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
3,663
Reaction score
6,114
Those are facts related directly to the OP topic. I have a business relationship with the Motor company, such that my livlihood depends on them selling product so that I can eat. We have one in our R&D center and I have had the opportunity to ride it as much as I wanted. I was not impressed. I want to get on my bike and go 300 miles and have the ability to go another 300 miles by just filling up at a gas station which costs about $13 and takes less than 5 minutes. I might be different from the average MC rider in that my bike takes me where I go, not the other way around. If you take factual information as a bash, then I apologize.
You continue to belittle. Apology not yet accepted. Cut that out, and all is well.

thank you for your feedback on what you use a bike for, and why LW is not for you because how you use a bike.
 

LouG

PSL +5
Intermediate User
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Messages
4,427
Reaction score
6,290
Volts are not for me. I want soaring revs, induction howl, a power band that starts at 6K and runs to 11, 6 gears, a clutch.
I want madness, that's why I started riding bikes 52 years ago. I also want to refuel in 3 minutes.
Common sense is just no fun.
 

Signal Environment

Learning to Fly
Beginner User
Joined
Apr 2, 2020
Messages
187
Reaction score
431
Volts are not for me. I want soaring revs, induction howl, a power band that starts at 6K and runs to 11, 6 gears, a clutch.
I want madness, that's why I started riding bikes 52 years ago. I also want to refuel in 3 minutes.
Common sense is just no fun.
Very much a personal decision on bikes. People are looking for widely differing things from the machine and the experience. I wouldn't want electric bikes to replace their internal combustion counterparts, but I'd probably try riding one if the opportunity arose.

I think electric would work well for the way a lot of people ride: relatively short trips mostly for fun, with plenty of time in between for a recharge.
 

LouG

PSL +5
Intermediate User
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Messages
4,427
Reaction score
6,290
Yeah, I can see they'd be good for the 10 km coffee run and pose. But I like to ride and if I decide to go further I don't want to have to do range calculations.
And, given that I hadn't ridden one, I can't see how a huge slug of low down torque is exactly ideal on a bike. It sounds like a recipe for a high side. The mid 2000's Gixxers were buggers for that due to their big mid range shove.
But I doubt that I won't be able to buy an IC before I'm too decrepit to ride.
 

InDecay

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Intermediate User
Joined
Dec 20, 2019
Messages
269
Reaction score
390
Location
Phoenix, AZ
I got to see a truck full of them about a 2 years before the official release, but the HD store wasn't doing demos that day. I ended up riding a Zero SR and thought it was poorly put together, especially for the price. With the refreshes and the SR/F and SR/S, I think the rest of the traditional motorcycle parts have caught up with the tech of their battery packs and motor. Still, the price is too high. Which is how I feel about the Livewire. I'm still waiting for the Lightning Motorcycle's Strike to hit full production. It seems like an excellent value if the build quality is good.
 

Signal Environment

Learning to Fly
Beginner User
Joined
Apr 2, 2020
Messages
187
Reaction score
431
Yeah, I can see they'd be good for the 10 km coffee run and pose. But I like to ride and if I decide to go further I don't want to have to do range calculations.
And, given that I hadn't ridden one, I can't see how a huge slug of low down torque is exactly ideal on a bike. It sounds like a recipe for a high side. The mid 2000's Gixxers were buggers for that due to their big mid range shove.
But I doubt that I won't be able to buy an IC before I'm too decrepit to ride.
Range definitely remains a limiting factor. It's clearly not for you, or anyone who wants to cover big distances without meticulous planning. It's pretty obviously a niche product due to both range and price.

But I think you're overly dismissive with the "10 km coffee run and pose" comment. It would be a perfectly nice daily commuter for someone who wanted to use it for getting to work and the occasional weekend back road blast. And there's no shame in that.

I'm not an EVangelist, but I like to give credit where it's due. And it seems like the Livewire, taken for what it is, is an enjoyable machine.

The way it's tuned, it's not just a giant slug of low end torque. I haven't heard anyone who rode one saying it felt like a recipe for a high side.

Cycle world Dyno results:
92.8 hp @ 9,900 rpm
74.2 lb.-ft. @ 5,900 rpm

 

LouG

PSL +5
Intermediate User
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Messages
4,427
Reaction score
6,290
How can they get that torque figure from an electric motor? They just don't work like that, they make peak torque right from initial power on and then drop.
Anyway, you are right, there are people who'd buy an EM and a lot of bikers who won't.
Just like EV's I guess.
 

Signal Environment

Learning to Fly
Beginner User
Joined
Apr 2, 2020
Messages
187
Reaction score
431
Yeah electric motors naturally make max torque right from zero rpm. And if you look at the graph of the dyno the torque does ramp up fast and then taper down.

Something in design and or testing protocol is skewing it a bit from what we'd expect. But either way the power delivery seems to be pretty friendly.
 

LouG

PSL +5
Intermediate User
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Messages
4,427
Reaction score
6,290
If they made an EM with 6 "gears" and triple howl I might be tempted.
Porsche has put 2 speeds in the Taycan, and starship noise.
 

InDecay

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Intermediate User
Joined
Dec 20, 2019
Messages
269
Reaction score
390
Location
Phoenix, AZ
If they made an EM with 6 "gears" and triple howl I might be tempted.
Porsche has put 2 speeds in the Taycan, and starship noise.
Kawasaki EV Endeavor will have a manual transmission. I'm very eager what the Big 4 in Japan have brewing up since they're sharing battery tech.
 

LouG

PSL +5
Intermediate User
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Messages
4,427
Reaction score
6,290
Sorry, I should have added - refuel in 5 minutes max.
 

DrHow

Going “Plaid” ASAP (Tesla S) RDT refugee
Corgi Lovers
Advanced User
Lifetime Premium Member
Joined
May 18, 2018
Messages
3,663
Reaction score
6,114
Yeah electric motors naturally make max torque right from zero rpm. And if you look at the graph of the dyno the torque does ramp up fast and then taper down.

Something in design and or testing protocol is skewing it a bit from what we'd expect. But either way the power delivery seems to be pretty friendly.
Taper down is linked to battery heat. From what I am told.
 

LouG

PSL +5
Intermediate User
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Messages
4,427
Reaction score
6,290
I'm not so sure. I remember rewinding electric motors decades ago and learning that you can get high rpm or high torque but not both.
 

Discord Server

Latest threads

Forum statistics

Threads
87,810
Messages
1,335,831
Members
22,117
Latest member
MrGuy58
Top