Redline 360c 1.3, Red Barn Retest 7-15-20

87GN

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We can probably do that. I think Vortex did test with KV off in his initial testing of the V1G2, and it was just short of the R7 in Hwy mode.
Thank you!
 

Vortex

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My thinking about the R7 potential to scuttle RL360c sales revolves around previous information about the marketplace.
The V1G2 is not a significant player in global market sales. The volume is not a threat to Escort.
Radenso has been eating into Escort.
Uniden has taken huge bites out of Escort since the R series debut.
Escort has now launched its counter strikes.
With the Escort sales nemesis R7 costing half or less then the RL360c, the potential to keep evolving features as Uniden has so clearly been doing, does Escort run the risk of being double teamed by the R7 value leader and the game changer Theia?
Looks like a nasty tag team on Escort sales could evolve. If your willing to spend $750 on a detector that offers little more than a $350 one, but there is a $850 to $900 that absolutely crushed everything on multiple levels, you'd go with the $850 one right?
I still see Escort between a rock and a hard place.
Will their name and 2 good new models save them from serious trouble?
I won't overestimate the average consumer and write them off, the Escort name will keep them going a while more yet.
But there may be some personnel changes at corporate if sales aren't booming.
A reason for the recent participation here?? A little panic in their eyes?

Well said. The RL360c looks great now, but it’s likely just for a small window of time until Theia is released. If it surpasses the Escort for just a little $$ more, it’ll be the way to go for people who want the best. I can’t see a good reason to get the RL360c after that.

We may be looking at Theia for the best and R7 for the bang for the buck (and the V1 with an app for the enthusiast). I also wonder about the original Max360 at $500 or even the Cobra DP360 for the even more affordable option, especially for the everyday driver.

Either way, Theia’s release is quite likely to make the RL360c kind of pointless...
 

fishing66

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Now that you have $399-750 detectors all being terrain limited, do you have any plans to find a new test course?

Hmnnnn, we RDF pests parse and mince every word you folks say. Might your question imply that Theia will have such mind-numbing range that we need the detector testing equivalent of the Bonneville Salt Flats to separate it from competitors?
 

DrHow

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My thinking about the R7 potential to scuttle RL360c sales revolves around previous information about the marketplace.
The V1G2 is not a significant player in global market sales. The volume is not a threat to Escort.
Radenso has been eating into Escort.
Uniden has taken huge bites out of Escort since the R series debut.
Escort has now launched its counter strikes.
With the Escort sales nemesis R7 costing half or less then the RL360c, the potential to keep evolving features as Uniden has so clearly been doing, does Escort run the risk of being double teamed by the R7 value leader and the game changer Theia?
Looks like a nasty tag team on Escort sales could evolve. If your willing to spend $750 on a detector that offers little more than a $350 one, but there is a $850 to $900 that absolutely crushed everything on multiple levels, you'd go with the $850 one right?
I still see Escort between a rock and a hard place.
Will their name and 2 good new models save them from serious trouble?
I won't overestimate the average consumer and write them off, the Escort name will keep them going a while more yet.
But there may be some personnel changes at corporate if sales aren't booming.
A reason for the recent participation here?? A little panic in their eyes?
I suggest that anyone who has been eating into potential ER RD user market IS Valentine Research (by sale volume), not Radenso (yet). G2 provides way to protect their market share while expanding it. I predict G2 sales volume significant over the volume of Pro M or whatever since G2 introduction. You Canadians might under estimate the domestic US market. Too bad VR does not have thriving CA sales channel (or MRXX).

ER is still the sales leader, I would guess, for the premium market? There is a surge over at VR now. which should change the market totals and who has this market. Pro M is good contender. Plus the other Radenso products, like remote systems, are doing well enough to partially fund the Theia effort.

I do agree in our RDF sphere, Radenso marketing and brand development (based on Theia) is taking it to ER. Halting some sales until Unicorn comes out (like me with RL 360c, I am waiting), and so many others stating they are waiting.

Uniden R7 sales, assuming going through the RDF looking glass, should be the run away seller in premium market. However, don’t know outside this space where the sales are going. They are taking market that both VR and ER would want. Plus better international channel Increase volume?

Again, you do not seem to accept my (+Vortex and others posts) why people of a different view than you have (non woke) would spend $750 in droves. There are more features they want (not you), more design attributes they want (not you) in something like a RL 360c (or Theia for that matter when it comes out), and are willing to pay almost double. Just the way it is, you can not like it, get that. Most people who may want “more” than what you want, normally will not insult you for your decision. They would expect the same back.

In reality, Radenso wants to tap into this high end market. With something transformational. From the top, Radenso seeks excellence, not benchmarking others as top priority, instead change the whole thing. As Jon and others say... they are hard core next gen users of the tech, seek nothing but the best. And know others want the same thing.
 

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Hmnnnn, we RDF pests parse and mince every word you folks say. Might your question imply that Theia will have such mind-numbing range that we need the detector testing equivalent of the Bonneville Salt Flats to separate it from competitors?
That's where my expectations are headed.

Words from SEMA that come to mind.
"Obscene Range"

"Obscene, but not heard" for falses...
 

DrHow

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Well said. The RL360c looks great now, but it’s likely just for a small window of time until Theia is released. If it surpasses the Escort for just a little $$ more, it’ll be the way to go for people who want the best. I can’t see a good reason to get the RL360c after that.

We may be looking at Theia for the best and R7 for the bang for the buck (and the V1 with an app for the enthusiast). I also wonder about the original Max360 at $500 or even the Cobra DP360 for the even more affordable option, especially for the everyday driver.

Either way, Theia’s release is quite likely to make the RL360c kind of pointless...
Maybe pointless, not concluded... Devil is in the detail. Until it is real and has a track record, there will be people who choose now. Like you “I believe”... Soon, I hope, we will see the outcome.
 

DC Fluid

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I suggest that anyone who has been eating into potential ER RD user market IS Valentine Research (by sale volume), not Radenso (yet). G2 provides way to protect their market share while expanding it. I predict G2 sales volume significant over the volume of Pro M or whatever since G2 introduction. You Canadians might under estimate the domestic US market. Too bad VR does not have thriving CA sales channel (or MRXX).

ER is still the sales leader, I would guess, for the premium market? There is a surge over at VR now. which should change the market totals and who has this market. Pro M is good contender. Plus the other Radenso products, like remote systems, are doing well enough to partially fund the Theia effort.

I do agree in our RDF sphere, Radenso marketing and brand development (based on Theia) is taking it to ER. Halting some sales until Unicorn comes out (like me with RL 360c, I am waiting), and so many others stating they are waiting.

Uniden R7 sales, assuming going through the RDF looking glass, should be the run away seller in premium market. However, don’t know outside this space where the sales are going. They are taking market that both VR and ER would want. Plus better international channel Increase volume?

Again, you do not seem to accept my (+Vortex and others posts) why people of a different view than you have (non woke) would spend $750 in droves. There are more features they want (not you), more design attributes they want (not you) in something like a RL 360c (or Theia for that matter when it comes out), and are willing to pay almost double. Just the way it is, you can not like it, get that. Most people who may want “more” than what you want, normally will not insult you for your decision. They would expect the same back.

In reality, Radenso wants to tap into this high end market. With something transformational. From the top, Radenso seeks excellence, not benchmarking others as top priority, instead change the whole thing. As Jon and others say... they are hard core next gen users of the tech, seek nothing but the best. And know others want the same thing.
You seem to misunderstood the intent of my ramblings.
I'm simply stating facts as they have been, and asking the question of where things will go.
V1G2 is a great detector, no real good Canadian distribution. But historically their share of the market has been small. @Jon at Radenso posted a while ago global sales figures and VR is a niche or enthusiast model.
Radenso sells way more.
Escort was huge, now Uniden is huge.
A positive thing I see is globally the market is growing. Perhaps the proliferation of revenue making machines is getting more people to look.
Any ideas on how to get them to look here?

And nobody get me wrong, I wish the RL360c great success.
I would own one if it was priced $600USD. $950CDN.
Right now $1,350CDN in this economy leaves me saving for Theia as I only see spending that sort of money on one detector this lifetime.
I'm sure less expensive detectors will continue to dominate sales, perhaps as things evolve R3, R7, Pro M, Max 3, etc. will slide down into the mid-tier economical scale as they get replaced with newer models and tech.
I can never see the RL360c priced as a mid-tier, based on how expensive the 9500ix is being milked for.
 

DrHow

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You seem to misunderstood the intent of my ramblings.
I'm simply stating facts as they have been, and asking the question of where things will go.
V1G2 is a great detector, no real good Canadian distribution. But historically their share of the market has been small. @Jon at Radenso posted a while ago global sales figures and VR is a niche or enthusiast model.
Radenso sells way more.
Escort was huge, now Uniden is huge.
A positive thing I see is globally the market is growing. Perhaps the proliferation of revenue making machines is getting more people to look.
Any ideas on how to get them to look here?

And nobody get me wrong, I wish the RL360c great success.
I would own one if it was priced $600USD. $950CDN.
Right now $1,350CDN in this economy leaves me saving for Theia as I only see spending that sort of money on one detector this lifetime.
I'm sure less expensive detectors will continue to dominate sales, perhaps as things evolve R3, R7, Pro M, Max 3, etc. will slide down into the mid-tier economical scale as they get replaced with newer models and tech.
I can never see the RL360c priced as a mid-tier, based on how expensive the 9500ix is being milked for.
Get all that. For the time being, I am in same boat as you. Freezing RD spending until Theia comes out. I have all I need for the vehicles used.


Well, maybe not sure Radenso USA (or whatever their holding company is) sells their own branded RD in higher quantity that VR right now. If including their OEM that makes the PRO M global sales under OEM OEM brand, maybe?
 

G37X Jockey

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Hmnnnn, we RDF pests parse and mince every word you folks say. Might your question imply that Theia will have such mind-numbing range that we need the detector testing equivalent of the Bonneville Salt Flats to separate it from competitors?
I really hope you're right about Theia's range stomping the Red Barn course. Jon may also mean that Theia would be terrain limited on the Red Barn course just like the current best RD's, and it will take a much longer, straighter course to separate Theia from everything else.
Hopefully we won't have to wait too much longer to find out.
 

DC Fluid

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The Red Barn course is still relevant.
Vortex has been deliberately attenuating the signals to reduce distances and create very difficult to receive traps.
Great way to see how a low powered K Band trap could get such reduced warning time.
I have used my Bushnell many times doing this and have received distances between 8000 meters and 500 meters on the same detector (R7 Hwy Mode), depending on off axis setup, terrain and obstructions.
A Straight long distance course provides more seperation between detectors and makes a nice graph.
Terrain limited can have all detectors all show first alerts very close together.
Simply put, if there is no signal there, you can't see it no matter what.
Who catches the surprise first is important information.

If I was to ask anything of Vortex in these tests it would be to not attenuate quite as much, some where between older tests and the most recent, for a bit more separation in results.
In my next test I'm going to set up an actual police trap, as I see around here, with a genuine kill zone and view the LEO uses.
Now I can use actual K and Ka band police gun. :p
 

venom690

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Yeah the R7 is definitely a better value when it comes to range for the dollar. No doubt. The R1 is better still at performance for the dollar. If all you’re looking for is range, the RL360c isn’t the best way to spend your money. I think it only makes more sense when you factor in everything else it offers, especially the other features the R7 doesn’t.

I’ve got both and at this point, I’m scratching my head wondering why I’d run the R7 anymore, and that’s really surprising to me...

Well, if money is not an issue the R360c is clearyl the winner. but .. the r360 did not beat the R7 in range in all categories so to say that "the R360C is the best for range" is just not accurate . your own test proves that statement to be wrong.

And BSM... well if your unit has 30% of the R7s K band range then just run the R7 in city mode and watch it go quiet as a church mouse. but you still have the option to crank the R7 to 100% highway mode for some insane K band range.

The only reason why i would get the R360C over the R7 is because of the blue tooth and wifi updating.. but really. how often do you get an update to warrant having to update on the go.

Blue tooth is mostly valuable to motorcycle users.other than that why? on the V1s case it uses its blue tooth to use the open API V1 driver and JBV1 but on the redline? no point..

The V1G2 is stealth .. the R7 is spectre resistant . but only 2 states have to worry about spectres and even on those states it is not very commong for cops to be running one more electronic in their car taking up one more 12V outlet and chirping around in their car.

So as far as usable features go.. V1G2 is probably best. followed very closely by the R7. and if you take into account that the R7 is a plug and play unit .. vs the V1 that is a more enthiusast type unit that requires downloading an app, getting an android phone and configuring it on top of setting up the phone every time..

I would still declare the R7 the winner general purpose since 95% of people wont install the apps nor get a second phone for the V1G2
 

DC Fluid

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I really believe the number one advantage Escort has, beyond a doubt, is AUTO LOCKOUTS.
I believe this because of my own expereiences and the many, many family and friends and casual meetings, all so many people care about is "Is it quiet? Does it work? Can I just leave it alone and drive without annoyance?"
To me, that doesn't describe a knowledgeable RL360c buyer willing to pay for what it delivers, but the average consumer who just wants plug and drive, beep at police when needed.
Most of those buyers would be fine with a Max II or 3.
I know others who would buy anything regardless of price if the retailer declared it the best of the best. They would plunk down money for the RL360c on that alone.

All this RDF testing and discussion just doesn't get out there, even to the people selling detectors everyday.
I've only met one detector salesperson who ever heard of Vortex, and researching performance online before buying.
People research nearly every other purchase, why not detectors???
 

PHILBERT

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Great testing, @Vortex. Thank you!

I get Jon's point about Red Barn Course being somewhat of an equalizer, as it's terrain limited with a break point. Do we have these conditions in the real world? We do! And it's good to know how detectors respond. As far as "best range scenario", the flat and open course shows that. Both types of testing have their place, as some detectors will have delay alerting in the "instant signal acquisition" situation. Others do better in that situation.

And yes, the MAX 3 looked to be an improvement. But I also swear my MAX detectors lost range over the years I've had them. I remember them doing better.

As for Theia, I'm excited, and all in for one. Being so sensitive, my only concern is how it will handle a high RF environment. Will the front end handle signal overload? Will the infrencing work in high signal areas? What about multiple BSM signals that might overlap? I'm pretty sure Radenso will handle any such issues like that with the talent and dedication towards success they continue to demonstrate, but it is a new technology. I use sensitive spectrum analyzers for work, and I always have to question my test results based off of possible overload issues. In that case it's my brain making qualifying decisions, and not AI. But we usually have to use tuned filters to mitigate overload issues, as a broadband front end easily gets swamped with all the garbage out there. Time will tell.

Phil
 

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I am not a radio engineer, but I have always questioned the term "terrain limited". I understand that radio waves travel in straight lines and are reflected or absorbed by various surfaces, thereby increasing or decreasing the range of the signal.
But when we say, past a certain point on a given course there is no signal to detect, is that really the case? Absolutely no signal, or just an extraordinarily weak signal that no current RD can discern from the prevailing noise floor?
Back in the 1970's my original Bell Microeye (non-superheterodyne) might have given me 1 or 2 seconds warning of radar over the crest of a gentle hill. It was terrain limited. My first Escort (superheterodyne) on the same road could sniff out radar over several hills, it was amazing. The Escort's terrain limitation was there but vastly extended. I'm expecting Theia to redefine our understanding of the term "terrain limited" detection because it (hopefully) will be able to discern ultra weak signals that are simply "not there" for our current RD's.
Then again, I may be wanting the impossible and am setting myself up for disappointment. We shall soon see.
 

Vortex

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I am not a radio engineer, but I have always questioned the term "terrain limited". I understand that radio waves travel in straight lines and are reflected or absorbed by various surfaces, thereby increasing or decreasing the range of the signal.
But when we say, past a certain point on a given course there is no signal to detect, is that really the case? Absolutely no signal, or just an extraordinarily weak signal that no current RD can discern from the prevailing noise floor?
Back in the 1970's my original Bell Microeye (non-superheterodyne) might have given me 1 or 2 seconds warning of radar over the crest of a gentle hill. It was terrain limited. My first Escort (superheterodyne) on the same road could sniff out radar over several hills, it was amazing. The Escort's terrain limitation was there but vastly extended. I'm expecting Theia to redefine our understanding of the term "terrain limited" detection because it (hopefully) will be able to discern ultra weak signals that are simply "not there" for our current RD's.
Then again, I may be wanting the impossible and am setting myself up for disappointment. We shall soon see.

Right yeah, I’ve always figured “terrain limited” in this context meant that the signal suddenly drops off in strength so that it’s below the threshold of most detectors to pick up, not so much that it is eliminated altogether. I guess a more clear way to say it is that the terrain blocks enough of the signal to limit how far away detectors can pick it up, not it limits how far the signal itself can actually travel.

Perhaps Theia is sensitive enough to pick up signals that are still present, but too weak for any other detector to pick up. :)
 
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DC Fluid

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Right yeah, I’ve always figured “terrain limited” in this context meant that the signal suddenly drops off in strength so that it’s below the threshold of most detectors to pick up, not so much that it is eliminated altogether.

Perhaps Theia is sensitive enough to pick up signals that are still present, but too weak for any other detector to pick up. :)
Advice Yoda.jpg
 

spanky

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Vortex: Thank you for your very detailed test results.
Great work on your part to help keep us informed!!!
 
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fishing66

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Either way, Theia’s release is quite likely to make the RL360c kind of pointless...

At the current price point, agreed. If it was reasonably priced at perhaps $550.00 then it would be a great option. It is difficult to conceive of a situation where someone would get a ticket because they had a V1G2 or R7 on the windshield instead of a RL360. It is simply priced too high IMO at $750.00 to warrant purchase with Theia looming.
 
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