2021 Ford Bronco

DrHow

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Sorry, just saw this. The COBB 1+. Our problem here is that we cannot get 93 Oct, so I have to run a 91 Oct tune.

The truck was exceptionally good stock. The lag was not an issue in Normal mode, to be sure it was there but very minor and not an issue day-to-day, significantly less than other EB motors I have driven, and it was essentially none-existent in Sport or Baja mode. I threw the tune at it more out of curiosity than anything else. A 5 second 0-60 truck running 35" tires is simply a lot of fun.

I have about 56000 miles on my 2018 now (I have owned it for about 28 months), and thousands of miles of that are off road. It is in the dirt near daily and on the trail every other week or so, at least once a month. The only complaints I have about the truck are it really should have a V-8 in it, even if just for the sound (it makes plenty of power with the V-6, even on the stock tune, but come on man, it sounds like a Honda on steroids), and it is simply too big for a lot of the places I like to take it.

Don't get me wrong, even if I get a Bronco, I will not be getting rid of the Raptor (although I could talk myself into replacing it with another Raptor, if Ford goes V-8 in the Raptor). As a travel truck, over the road, it is unsurpassed. The soft off-road suspension and the big tires make it glide on the highway. For comfort it is like driving my living room couch, if my couch had heated and air conditioned seats, 500+ HP, and Sport mode. If we have a long trip planned my wife always assumes we will take the Raptor vs anything else we own. Her Lincoln has one fifth the miles on it, and is the same year. Then again, we like fun vehicles, the Miata has more mileage than the Raptor and has gone coast to coast a few times ;) and most of my other vehicles are pre-smog classics.

And we got the Raptor on a lark. I was looking at Chevrolet trucks, my wife wanted to just see what the Raptor looked like inside. The sales guy talked us into a test drive (as is their job) and before we had gone a mile in the truck my wife told me "if you don't buy this thing I am going to".

T!
Ditto on everything complimentary indicated above. I will add, nothing better for chuck hole ridden winter streets, and cold patched chuck holes in summer. No bent rims, no jarring, just glides along. Wife and engineers that go with me for biz trips, request the Raptor over anything else. Unless they want to sit in the back of the G90. The mild LFP/Roush tune added right at 100hp, plus another 100lb of torque. easy pump gas. It is fast for such heavy beast. Until the Cyber Truck on order is built, this is King Kong of fleet. I do not miss a V8 at all. This version is the Ford GT motor detuned. Fathouse fabrication here in Indiana, or Lebanon Ford Performance, next door in Ohio have these running 700hp+ at wheels for daily use, higher for the extreme. Ford will not sit on their arse for next gen. In meantime, us Raptor owners bask in our high resale value when the day comes to make a change.
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Yeah, but I was talking about that motor for the F-150 Raptor as an answer to the Ram TRX. The F-150 Raptor is not a crawler, it is much more of a Baja truck. They took a street legal, very near stock (safety gear and modified versions of the factory shocks added), 2017 Gen 2 Raptor to the Baja 1000 and finished, placing 3rd in class. They drove that truck to and from the Baja 1000, and (I think) it was the only truck in class that was not trailered to and from. The truck can handle other types of off-roading, but high speed desert running is its forte (and barroom/online bragging). I think the GT500 motor might be a fair fit, especially if they are aiming to compete with the TRX using something they already have in house. To do that they need something in the 600+ HP range, and really over 707 HP. Doing that with any of their other V-8s will end up costing them a lot of weight.

With regards to the Bronco, and a possibly Raptorized version of it, the current F-150 Raptor HO 3.5 EB would fit pretty neatly, be in the 450 HP / 510 lb-ft region, and probably lighter than any V-8 making equal power. To make a special version of the Bronco they need more power than what the 2.7 EB gives, but they also need to not fatten the Bronco up a lot. It seems to me a larger V-6 EB is much more in line with Fords thinking these days than a V-8.

I would love to see Ford develop a V-8 EB, maybe a TT 4.0L or something like that. Augmenting their NA V-8s with something a bit more modern could be interesting. But I just don't think it will happen.

Don't get me wrong, I love NA or superchargers much more than I like Turbos. But, I think Ford is on the EB bandwagon for the long run. Or EB hybrid combined with electrics.

T!
Don’t sell the Raptor short for average Joes like me regarding rock crawling, or sand. The Raptor Experience showed me that. Great school. And we got to run a “Baja“ like course at high speed. When someone asks how fast mine is if needing to run from the law. I suggest it doesn’t matter much. Hard for LEO to follow at 85-120 through the corn fields, dips, Dirt roads, or outback. :)
 
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GotWake

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I’m certain the aftermarket willPeople call every little vibration on their mall crawler “death wobble” and don’t understand why throwing the Quadratec catalog at their junk doesn’t go smoothly. Rough Country lives up the name, and not all heavy and poorly balancing “mud” tires on spacers are going to work well on otherwise stock running gear. So they blame the manufacturer.
True, but they had some loose steering issue with the 2019/2020 that would cause it to wobble and I remember some of the new ones would huge amount of play in the steering.

I’ve always wanted a Wrangler. But, I think they are way too expensive for what they are, they should top out at 40k.
 

Heywood

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Been reading and watching a lot on the new Bronco.

I think it’s going to be great. Looks like a lot of thought was put in to it. I wouldn’t mind having one in the driveway.

Full disclosure, my wife bought her JK bone stock. Zero options. I’m pretty proud how I built it. I prefer it use different parts from different manufactures to get it where I wanted it.

I just prefer aftermarket companies that specialized on certain parts, since that’s what they’re known for, than a factory built system.

I guess it all depends what you use it for. It’s my wife’s DD, but it definitely is no “Mall Crawler”.

I think we this Jeep is our 6th or 7th? We even had an H2 Hummer in there as well.
 

GotWake

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So, anyone grab a reservation??

giphy.gif
 

GotWake

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I think the Sport looks fine. Everyone just pushed past her to see the prettier girl. :rofl:
 

CobawLT2010

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How many times have you had death wobble in a Jeep you've owned? Zero?

It happens primarily because people don't maintain wear parts to the point that they no longer function (ball joints, TRE, Drag Link), or because people don't lift/upgrade properly (tires way too heavy for stock running gear, improper steering geometry).

You hear about it on forums because people mod improperly or own shitboxes with 200k on original ball joints that need maintenance.

To the rest of the world it's not a concern unless they do something stupid that would cause issues in any vehicle regardless.
Never owned a Jeep... but when one does it on the highway when you’re test driving a brand new one (2 door)... that’s when you steer clear... I’ve also had a Dodge Ram truck do a instance of death wobble on me... granted that was a fleet truck. FCA vehicles suck in general with their suspension setups.

I would rather have a bronco over a Jeep. Especially with all their minivan engines... I have dealt with the pentastar enough to know it’s a shit engine. I’ve had 2 engine rebuilds, an AWD system failure (Jeep design/FCA vehicle), multiple oil leaks, transmission issues with dog clutches to know FCA build quality sucks. I could go on but that’s just one car...
 
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robbyb413

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Their thought process and explanation are dead on. IFS is better for everything in every way. There are only two advantages to a live axle in the front on a vehicle like this: greater theoretical flex characteristics when modded heavily and cheaper to lift. This isn’t your early 2000’s Explorer IFS. Everything from Baja trucks to Razors run IFS for a reason.
Their thought process is dead on... For a car. Great if your priorities are on-road manners. Not for an offroad vehicle. I'm thinking you may have a experience off roading out west, but don't have a lot of experience out east, is that correct? I say this because having spent a lot of time off roading in CA, UT, NV, and AZ myself I think it's very different out there when compared to ME, NH, VT, CT, and MA for example which are the other places I offroad. I love it out west. I'm barely even sore the next day when compared to a day on the trails here. In areas like the Northeast though the gap between IFS/IRS and solid axles is illustrated in great relief. It's not just about flex, it's about droop/drop and leverage. In rough uneven terrain, real offroading... not Instagram off roading, not running through a mud pit, not ripping through dunes, not running down fire roads and thinking you're having a big day off-road, which are your Baja/trophy trucks and side-bys in action there, you have odd angles and with IFS (or IRS too) if the vehicle is going through uneven terrain a wheel can lose contact with the road and since their is both limited flex and certainly not enough droop until the vehicle shifts or terrain changes to bring that wheel back to earth it's not coming down. However with solid axles, they're able to overcome this because they have more flex and the ability to droop further plus the forces on the wheel in contact with the surface plus gravity and the weight of the vehicle itsels will enable the axle to be a lever which forces the other side down towards the surface in order to achieve more traction sooner. It's a clear advantage to have solid axles.

It’s the same with the whole manual transmission debate. Crawling with a manual makes you feel manly, but it’s a disadvantage compared to an automatic. You can set it up with a lower first gear if you want, but having to resort to a hand throttle and feathering a clutch just isn’t as nice and capable as a basic torque converter automatic. I even put everything together to swap my crawler TJ manual to an auto before I had to sell it. The case for manuals comes down to a personal preference rather than any objective advantage, and too few people these days are interested in a manual for daily driving or really anything else. I don’t blame them for not trying to add the complication of a low-volume option just for the sake of saying they have it, especially when it will probably make almost no difference to perception or sales numbers.
Again I'm thinking that you're maybe thinking in a mindset that stands for some off roading but not all. Plenty of use cases exist for automatics. Plenty exist for longer stretched wheelbases too. So the people who primarily off road in an environment that is well suited to autos and long chassis can have them, and people with other needs like the manual or shorter chassis can choose those. On tighter more technical trails and especially in dealing with water hazards having the control of if or when a shift happens can make a difference, which ultimately the manual has the edge with 1 extra pedal and more freedom with the gearbox.

People call every little vibration on their mall crawler “death wobble” and don’t understand why throwing the Quadratec catalog at their junk doesn’t go smoothly.
This though I think can't be stated enough. And it brings it right back around to Ford's flawed reasons for the IFS choice.



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Deacon

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Their thought process is dead on... For a car. Great if your priorities are on-road manners. Not for an offroad vehicle. I'm thinking you may have a experience off roading out west, but don't have a lot of experience out east, is that correct? I say this because having spent a lot of time off roading in CA, UT, NV, and AZ myself I think it's very different out there when compared to ME, NH, VT, CT, and MA for example which are the other places I offroad. I love it out west. I'm barely even sore the next day when compared to a day on the trails here. In areas like the Northeast though the gap between IFS/IRS and solid axles is illustrated in great relief. It's not just about flex, it's about droop/drop and leverage. In rough uneven terrain, real offroading... not Instagram off roading, not running through a mud pit, not ripping through dunes, not running down fire roads and thinking you're having a big day off-road, which are your Baja/trophy trucks and side-bys in action there, you have odd angles and with IFS (or IRS too) if the vehicle is going through uneven terrain a wheel can lose contact with the road and since their is both limited flex and certainly not enough droop until the vehicle shifts or terrain changes to bring that wheel back to earth it's not coming down. However with solid axles, they're able to overcome this because they have more flex and the ability to droop further plus the forces on the wheel in contact with the surface plus gravity and the weight of the vehicle itsels will enable the axle to be a lever which forces the other side down towards the surface in order to achieve more traction sooner. It's a clear advantage to have solid axles.



Again I'm thinking that you're maybe thinking in a mindset that stands for some off roading but not all. Plenty of use cases exist for automatics. Plenty exist for longer stretched wheelbases too. So the people who primarily off road in an environment that is well suited to autos and long chassis can have them, and people with other needs like the manual or shorter chassis can choose those. On tighter more technical trails and especially in dealing with water hazards having the control of if or when a shift happens can make a difference, which ultimately the manual has the edge with 1 extra pedal and more freedom with the gearbox.



This though I think can't be stated enough. And it brings it right back around to Ford's flawed reasons for the IFS choice.



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I crawl rocks. If you want a manual, go for it. I had to put a hand throttle and abuse my clutch even with a granny gear first and a 4:1 4LO. I don’t know what you’re suggesting your off road experiences are, but a well designed IFS cover 98% of all cases better than a solid axle. It’s just more expensive. In my case I built a Ford HP60 with kingpins for the front and 14b for the rear because it was way the hell cheaper even moving to tuned coil movers than any IFS, and in extreme situations would offer more useful flex (not just bragging rights posing on a flex ramp). In buggies a solid axle is great, but the bias against IFS as a concept is largely campfire wisdom. When we’ll designed to be sufficiently strong and sufficiently dexterous, it will satisfy the commuters, the mall crawlers, AND the vast majority of the off-road crowd who don’t immediately poo-poo anything different than their own junk. How many high end buggies do you see with manual transmissions? Are they running autos because they’re wussies? Or because it’s a better tool for the job?
 

GotWake

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No doubt that SFA is going to be better in the rocks. It all comes down to where you live. Around me something like the Wildtrak is going to be better. I would love to go down to uwharrie, but I doubt very seriously I would go. If I did, I'm not beating the crap out of nice velocity blue 60k vehicle. :D
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One thing from reading on the Bronco forum. It sounds like the 33s on the Badlands has better articulation than adding the sasquatch package with the 35s. I imagine aftermarket will add some suspension goodies to help with the bigger tires. The thing I'm like with Ford is you can basically get what you want 35s and optional 2" lift and have warranty. I think the sasquatch package has a 1.2" lift.
 
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GotWake

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Wanting a 4 door Sasquatch badly.

But wondering if it will be 2022 or 2023 when the 5.0 Coyote option comes out.... 🤔

Lol
You can get 400 hp out of that 2.7. I love V8s, but that 3.5 from the Raptor would be badass.
 

robbyb413

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Never owned a Jeep... but when one does it on the highway when you’re test driving a brand new one (2 door)... that’s when you steer clear...
I didn't notice this post before... did this really happen? My guess is it didn't. Given how people, and lawyers, are in 2020, if this was something that was occurring there would be headlines and soccer moms freaking out. That's not happening, so sorry, I'm going to have to question the validity of the claim.

I crawl rocks. If you want a manual, go for it. I had to put a hand throttle and abuse my clutch even with a granny gear first and a 4:1 4LO. I don’t know what you’re suggesting your off road experiences are, but a well designed IFS cover 98% of all cases better than a solid axle. It’s just more expensive. In my case I built a Ford HP60 with kingpins for the front and 14b for the rear because it was way the hell cheaper even moving to tuned coil movers than any IFS, and in extreme situations would offer more useful flex (not just bragging rights posing on a flex ramp). In buggies a solid axle is great, but the bias against IFS as a concept is largely campfire wisdom. When we’ll designed to be sufficiently strong and sufficiently dexterous, it will satisfy the commuters, the mall crawlers, AND the vast majority of the off-road crowd who don’t immediately poo-poo anything different than their own junk.
My point was that you're thinking about your use case, not everyone's use case. You state yourself you have a limited scope of experience there to support the point. It's great that something works for you. Does that mean it works for all?

This thinking persists because it's true. It's not campfire tales. The physics are on the side of the solid axles in many scenarios, well beyond 2% of them by any measure. It's probably more the reverse... IFS "best" for a very low percentage of scenarios, maybe some washboarded fire roads they excel for comfort and control then that's the only place they're the ideal configuration. There isn't a way to design IFS so that it can deliver what a regular old solid axle can do on the trail. IFS is limited in travel and is limited in it's ability to maintain traction off axis. The're really isn't any way to overcome that no matter what you do or how much money you throw at it. You might be able to compromise and get away with it, sure. And yeah maybe some extreme buggy scenario where you have a massive investment in suspension for some niche off road activity it performs well, but baring those edge cases a basic solid axle will be best.

How many high end buggies do you see with manual transmissions? Are they running autos because they’re wussies? Or because it’s a better tool for the job?
Every time I'm on the trail with a buggy it has a manual, because the only time I have gone out with any of them is in the north east, and that would be the correct tool for the job there. Again, if you like to run an auto and IFS go for it, Nobody is forcing you to change. It's about the option for those that need it and want it. It's about providing options to meet all needs, not just your needs. There is a difference and that is why Ford missed the mark with IFS and limiting manual on the Bronco.
 
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