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goblin

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Cobra DNA in new products...Brrr :D
RIP Beltronics :).
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Is there ever going to be an option to let us choose between Beltronics and Escort Alert tones?

Alot of us like the Beltronics alert tones because they cut through loud noise easier and allow a quicker response time, plus X band alert is a Star trek sound off the original show.
What he said. Beltronics tones please. Or better yet - customisable ones, uploaded as wav files or whatever.
 
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Theichiban

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I like this approach and the leadership it shows. Well done @GailFromCedar and TEAM. Now about the backordered stuff that we have had ZERO communication on......;)
 

benzr

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Hi Cedar/Escort crew,
Thanks for taking the time to answer some of our questions in the video.

I'd like to address one thing that may have been misunderstood in relation to patents. There aren't many here that begrudge a company protecting their investment via patent. There are a lot of nuances that go into the reason some feel as they do about certain patents in particular but I'd like to just focus on one thing that hopefully you can follow up with.

The problem that many forum members have is the patent surrounding Escort live, US8373588B2 which makes these claims:

1. A police activity detector, comprising:
a receiver for detecting electromagnetic signals generated in the context of police activity,
a processor coupled to said receiver and evaluating electromagnetic signals received by said receiver to determine whether a warning is to be issued, the processor operating under control of software and/or data, and
a first wireless device interface comprising a radio compliant with one or more of: Bluetooth, Zigbee, 802.11, and wireless personal area network communication protocols,
the processor interacting wirelessly with an external device via said first wireless device interface and connecting to a cellular device providing an Internet connection, the cellular device exchanging data with a remote server via said Internet connection,
wherein the external device comprises a global positioning receiver, a display, and a second wireless device interface connectible to the first wireless device interface, the display generating alerts of radar when detected by the radar detector, and presenting a map representing the geographic location of the external device.

2. The detector of claim 1 wherein the processor receives signal information data from said remote server via said cellular device and Internet connection and uses the same in determining whether to issue a warning to a user of the detector.

3. The detector of claim 1 wherein the first wireless device interface is located in a housing that incorporates a cigarette lighter plug for obtaining 12 volt power from a cigarette lighter connector.

4. The detector of claim 1 further comprising at least one toggle button which may be activated by a user to indicate the presence of police activity at a current position.

5. The detector of claim 1 wherein the data exchanged with the remote server includes information on speed trap locations.

6. The detector of claim 1 wherein the data exchanged with the remote server includes information on electromagnetic signals generated in the context of police activity obtained by another receiver.

7. The detector of claim 1 wherein the data exchanged with the remote server includes information on speed camera locations.

8. The detector of claim 1 wherein the data exchanged with the remote server includes firmware for said processor.

9. A position-responsive police activity detector upgrade device, for use with a radar detector having a power and data connection, the radar detector receiving electrical power and communicating data over the connector including at least an indication of an alert generated upon detection of police radar, and the radar detector responding to data received over the connector including at least a muting signal for muting of an alert, the upgrade device comprising
a housing that incorporates a cigarette lighter plug for obtaining 12 volt power from a cigarette lighter connector,
a power and data connection for connection to a radar detector power and data connection,
a position indicating circuit for detecting a current position of the upgrade device,
storage identifying locations at which alerts otherwise generated by a radar detector are to be muted,
the upgrade device including circuitry coupling power obtained from said cigarette lighter connector to a connected radar detector, receiving an indication of an alert from a connected radar detector, and providing a muting signal to a radar detector in the event a location identified by said position indicating circuit correlates to a location at which an alert is to be muted.

10. The detector upgrade device of claim 9 wherein upon indication of an alert generated by a radar detector, said upgrade device stores a current location as identified by said position indicating circuit.

11. A position-responsive police activity detector upgrade device, for use with a radar detector having a power and data connection, the radar detector receiving electrical power and communicating data over the connector including at least an indication of an alert generated upon detection of police radar, and the radar detector responding to data received over the connector including at least a muting signal for muting of an alert, the upgrade device comprising
a housing that incorporates a cigarette lighter plug for obtaining 12 volt power from a cigarette lighter connector,
a power and data connection for connection to a radar detector power and data connection,
an 802.x compliant radio for communicating with a mobile telephone, to cause the remote telephone to store information regarding a radar encounter in a remote database via cellular communication,
the upgrade device including circuitry coupling power obtained from said cigarette lighter connector to a connected radar detector, receiving an indication of an alert from a connected radar detector, and providing a signal to a mobile telephone via said 802.x compliant radio to a mobile telephone in response to an indicated alert.

12. The detector upgrade device of claim 11 wherein upon indication of an alert generated by a radar detector, said upgrade device causes said mobile telephone to store a current location in said remote database.

13. The detector upgrade device of claim 11 wherein the upgrade device receives an indication of police activity from a user of the device and provides a signal to the mobile telephone via said 802.x compliant radio to cause said mobile telephone to store a current location in said remote database.

I won't get into whether or not this patent is overly broad as many believe or the chilling effect it has on the app developers and the CM community as a whole so instead I'd like to make an appeal on dollars and cents. After all, your patents are there to make you money right?

1. If the app ecosystem surrounding alerts from countermeasures and crowd sourced alerts is fragmented, it's essentially worthless. People who use countermeasures are already rare enough that segmenting it further into what brands they use is extremely counterproductive.

2. So far Escort has not done well, putting it mildly, with Escort live. You've seen many of the complaints here so I won't rehash but it's clear that you could use some help from other developers.

3. We've heard all the Escort Live iRadar marketing speak before and nothing has really changed:

4. Data collection is great and that data can be worth a lot of money, but only if the data is GOOD. False alerts getting reported to the app without better checks doesn't just annoy users by crying wolf all the time, it also makes the data worthless for analytics.

So why not figure out a way that makes sense for you to license a portion of this to create an API that 3rd party developers can use both with your detectors and either their own servers or yours for Escort live. If you can do that, you'll get a much better ROI on your patent. There are several ways that this could work. One of the easiest and least cost prohibitive ways that I can think of would be a licensing requirement that 3rd party apps must report any crowd sourced alert that they receive from their users to the Escort Live server regardless of whether they have their own server or not. Suddenly you have data from every BT connected radar detector instead of just your own. This "leverages" (yay buzzwords) way more data that your users can enjoy and helps sell your detectors. It really seems like a no-brainer to me.

I think that you guys are using an archaic way of thinking on this patent like it's protecting a physical product or piece of software but if you think about it as a patent on collectable information instead, the more good data you can get, the more good data you can sell.

This type of thinking has already shut down a community project that instead you could have profited from. Maybe thinking outside the box a little can help with the best solution for everyone.
THIS ....... ^^^^€€^^^^^^^^^^^
THIS .... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Gail ... Get on the .... :bandwagon: !!

Impress us !!!

Lets work TOGETHER for a Better more profitable
FUTURE for ALL OF US !!!

You get to SELL OUR GATHERED INFO and we get to continue to innovate our apps SAVING US RDF'rs Biiiiiig $$$$$$$$ from fines.

Try thinking OUTSIDE the box for a change. 🧐🧐
🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓😎😎😎😎😎😎 !!

Just sayin'
Post automatically merged:

I like this approach and the leadership it shows. Well done @GailFromCedar and TEAM. Now about the backordered stuff that we have had ZERO communication on......;)
Wow !!

Ya just can't say enough about Cedar "leadership"


Hmmmmmm ??????

Please state it some more 🙄🙄

Maybe THIS TIME they will listen to you. !!

#PleaseStateGreatLeadershipSomeMore
#QuestionMe

Benzr
 
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TonyPHX

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Hi Cedar/Escort crew,
Thanks for taking the time to answer some of our questions in the video.

I'd like to address one thing that may have been misunderstood in relation to patents. There aren't many here that begrudge a company protecting their investment via patent. There are a lot of nuances that go into the reason some feel as they do about certain patents in particular but I'd like to just focus on one thing that hopefully you can follow up with.

The problem that many forum members have is the patent surrounding Escort live, US8373588B2 which makes these claims:

1. A police activity detector, comprising:
a receiver for detecting electromagnetic signals generated in the context of police activity,
a processor coupled to said receiver and evaluating electromagnetic signals received by said receiver to determine whether a warning is to be issued, the processor operating under control of software and/or data, and
a first wireless device interface comprising a radio compliant with one or more of: Bluetooth, Zigbee, 802.11, and wireless personal area network communication protocols,
the processor interacting wirelessly with an external device via said first wireless device interface and connecting to a cellular device providing an Internet connection, the cellular device exchanging data with a remote server via said Internet connection,
wherein the external device comprises a global positioning receiver, a display, and a second wireless device interface connectible to the first wireless device interface, the display generating alerts of radar when detected by the radar detector, and presenting a map representing the geographic location of the external device.

2. The detector of claim 1 wherein the processor receives signal information data from said remote server via said cellular device and Internet connection and uses the same in determining whether to issue a warning to a user of the detector.

3. The detector of claim 1 wherein the first wireless device interface is located in a housing that incorporates a cigarette lighter plug for obtaining 12 volt power from a cigarette lighter connector.

4. The detector of claim 1 further comprising at least one toggle button which may be activated by a user to indicate the presence of police activity at a current position.

5. The detector of claim 1 wherein the data exchanged with the remote server includes information on speed trap locations.

6. The detector of claim 1 wherein the data exchanged with the remote server includes information on electromagnetic signals generated in the context of police activity obtained by another receiver.

7. The detector of claim 1 wherein the data exchanged with the remote server includes information on speed camera locations.

8. The detector of claim 1 wherein the data exchanged with the remote server includes firmware for said processor.

9. A position-responsive police activity detector upgrade device, for use with a radar detector having a power and data connection, the radar detector receiving electrical power and communicating data over the connector including at least an indication of an alert generated upon detection of police radar, and the radar detector responding to data received over the connector including at least a muting signal for muting of an alert, the upgrade device comprising
a housing that incorporates a cigarette lighter plug for obtaining 12 volt power from a cigarette lighter connector,
a power and data connection for connection to a radar detector power and data connection,
a position indicating circuit for detecting a current position of the upgrade device,
storage identifying locations at which alerts otherwise generated by a radar detector are to be muted,
the upgrade device including circuitry coupling power obtained from said cigarette lighter connector to a connected radar detector, receiving an indication of an alert from a connected radar detector, and providing a muting signal to a radar detector in the event a location identified by said position indicating circuit correlates to a location at which an alert is to be muted.

10. The detector upgrade device of claim 9 wherein upon indication of an alert generated by a radar detector, said upgrade device stores a current location as identified by said position indicating circuit.

11. A position-responsive police activity detector upgrade device, for use with a radar detector having a power and data connection, the radar detector receiving electrical power and communicating data over the connector including at least an indication of an alert generated upon detection of police radar, and the radar detector responding to data received over the connector including at least a muting signal for muting of an alert, the upgrade device comprising
a housing that incorporates a cigarette lighter plug for obtaining 12 volt power from a cigarette lighter connector,
a power and data connection for connection to a radar detector power and data connection,
an 802.x compliant radio for communicating with a mobile telephone, to cause the remote telephone to store information regarding a radar encounter in a remote database via cellular communication,
the upgrade device including circuitry coupling power obtained from said cigarette lighter connector to a connected radar detector, receiving an indication of an alert from a connected radar detector, and providing a signal to a mobile telephone via said 802.x compliant radio to a mobile telephone in response to an indicated alert.

12. The detector upgrade device of claim 11 wherein upon indication of an alert generated by a radar detector, said upgrade device causes said mobile telephone to store a current location in said remote database.

13. The detector upgrade device of claim 11 wherein the upgrade device receives an indication of police activity from a user of the device and provides a signal to the mobile telephone via said 802.x compliant radio to cause said mobile telephone to store a current location in said remote database.

I won't get into whether or not this patent is overly broad as many believe or the chilling effect it has on the app developers and the CM community as a whole so instead I'd like to make an appeal on dollars and cents. After all, your patents are there to make you money right?

1. If the app ecosystem surrounding alerts from countermeasures and crowd sourced alerts is fragmented, it's essentially worthless. People who use countermeasures are already rare enough that segmenting it further into what brands they use is extremely counterproductive.

2. So far Escort has not done well, putting it mildly, with Escort live. You've seen many of the complaints here so I won't rehash but it's clear that you could use some help from other developers.

3. We've heard all the Escort Live iRadar marketing speak before and nothing has really changed:

4. Data collection is great and that data can be worth a lot of money, but only if the data is GOOD. False alerts getting reported to the app without better checks doesn't just annoy users by crying wolf all the time, it also makes the data worthless for analytics.

So why not figure out a way that makes sense for you to license a portion of this to create an API that 3rd party developers can use both with your detectors and either their own servers or yours for Escort live. If you can do that, you'll get a much better ROI on your patent. There are several ways that this could work. One of the easiest and least cost prohibitive ways that I can think of would be a licensing requirement that 3rd party apps must report any crowd sourced alert that they receive from their users to the Escort Live server regardless of whether they have their own server or not. Suddenly you have data from every BT connected radar detector instead of just your own. This "leverages" (yay buzzwords) way more data that your users can enjoy and helps sell your detectors. It really seems like a no-brainer to me.

I think that you guys are using an archaic way of thinking on this patent like it's protecting a physical product or piece of software but if you think about it as a patent on collectable information instead, the more good data you can get, the more good data you can sell.

This type of thinking has already shut down a community project that instead you could have profited from. Maybe thinking outside the box a little can help with the best solution for everyone.
@GailFromCedar - I just want to add a gentle nudge on the perspective and request of @OBeerWANKenobi. CEO's in all industries are recognizing that an open solution with open API's and data interchange benefit the entire industry and the companies participating in them are rewarded with a higher valuation. Please take a look at the Open Data Initiative, (ODI) where you see a joint effort from Adobe, Microsoft, SAP and others to securely combine data. And note, these are companies that typically would be bitter combatants.

A modern approach is to get your API's out there so that they are consumed, leveraged and then baked in to innovation going forward. I truly believe @OBeerWANKenobi is giving you good advice not just from an enthusiast of these products, but also the only way to keep Escort Live and detectors relevant going forward. As a consumer with more money than intelligence and is ready to spend, I can tell you I will always buy the device with the most extensibility and openness. Using Radenso as an example, the Theia promises to be just that. Valentine also fits the bill of open API's, so it is clear the model has not damaged them, but rather helped them. I believe a lot of V1G2 shortcomings are corrected by their open API capability and the appearance of add on applications.

I know there are many opinions on the forums about your products, but even though some may debate me, here is something to consider - Escort is great at making devices but not so great at software. (sorry, but Escort Live is meh at best.). Make and support the API. The community and other developers will use them and do magic with your devices. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. You could even latch on to subscription revenue for the purposes of selling API access...and you certainly know that subscription revenue gets you a 3x valuation over a one time transaction. How is that for deal valuation?
 

Dodgediesel

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Thanks for answering the question about a future Max 360c update for K Notch. Appreciate it!

Has anyone at Cedar have an answer to why my Compustar Alarm sets off multiple Ka alerts?? Never did this until the last MRCD update software....
 

6thgear

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During the video, it was suggested that some of the recent improvements (eg AutoJTK, K Block) would make their way to the M360c, will the same apply for the M360? Some favor the arrow layout on the older M360, and do not need WiFi. (Yes, the mag mount on the newer models is quite sweet!)
 

Bluelinex

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To Cedar/Escort:
Just saw the test results video from Vortex Radar. The Red Line 360c is now performing as it should but the MAX 3 looks like it needs a firmware update. On K band when set to AUTO or AUTOLoK the detector gives very little warning or no warning at all until the radar unit has your speed. NOT GOOD! In Hway mode it's performing well but that's ok if your not running the detector around town. Take a look at the video.
 

TonyPHX

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To Cedar/Escort:
Just saw the test results video from Vortex Radar. The Red Line 360c is now performing as it should but the MAX 3 looks like it needs a firmware update. On K band when set to AUTO or AUTOLoK the detector gives very little warning or no warning at all until the radar unit has your speed. NOT GOOD! In Hway mode it's performing well but that's ok if your not running the detector around town. Take a look at the video.
Well, was thinking of this as a upcoming gift for my teen driver. Given how much better the R360 is, I actually have hope that firmware can fix this, but my recent Uniden experience tells me too that R7 for sure and possibly the R3 would be just as good. For the modest price increase, the R7 is a big punch for value.

It would be nice though to have him have a magnetic type mount in his car so I could drop mine in if I have to drive his. : )
 

6thgear

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No a question, but a suggestion. Verify your ad copies before they are sent out. I believe I am not the only member who has received an advertisement in the past few months where there have been errors - as in either the incorrect price point, a photo of one model, but the copy is adverting for another model.

For instance, this arrived earlier today - save $50 on the iXc - now only $599! If I recall, the iXc is generally $449, not $649....
When I click on the hyperlink, I am taken to a page for just the iXc and its listed on sale for $399...

Again, not trying to bash, but assist in the customer experience...
81FFCA5D-63EB-4E2B-9226-A5A08DCE8D06.jpeg
 

Cedar Electronics CTO

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All,

JTK and K notch will be added to the MAX 360 and MAX 360C.

We have received the feedback on the MAX 3 AUTO mode, and we are changing the thresholds and overall speed curve to be more sensitive. Both of these should be out soon.

John
 

Vortex

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All,

JTK and K notch will be added to the MAX 360 and MAX 360C.

We have received the feedback on the MAX 3 AUTO mode, and we are changing the thresholds and overall speed curve to be more sensitive. Both of these should be out soon.

John
Awesome, thank you on both points!
 

Dodgediesel

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All,

JTK and K notch will be added to the MAX 360 and MAX 360C.

We have received the feedback on the MAX 3 AUTO mode, and we are changing the thresholds and overall speed curve to be more sensitive. Both of these should be out soon.

John
Wooooooooooooo
 

goblin

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...
JTK and K notch will be added to the MAX 360 and MAX 360C.
I don't like to presume, so I'll have to ask

- Will the Cobra Dual Pro 360 fall under the umbrella of the Max 360, and when you say Max 360 - does that cover it as well ? So far most updates seen on the Max 360 have been seen on the DL360, but will this be the rule ? MRCD actually came to the DL360 before it came to the Max 360, maybe a couple of weeks earlier

- Same question for the Beltronics GT-360 (the Cobra being one) ?

- Same question about iRadar - will it automatically follow the updates of the EL app.

- And another one: is the current iRadar app ("fed" with data by the DL360 and RoadScout) the same iRadar app that we were seeing with previous Cobra products which were feeding it data too, or is it a copy of the EL app which is isolated from the older Cobra range ?

Having a database fed by older models that are known to joyfully false would look like a contamination. Screenshots of iRadar from years ago look completely different - I'm wondering if we're talking about two separate apps ? Is the current iRadar app accepting data only from the DL360 and RoadScout ?

Thks
 

InDecay

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Hi @GailFromCedar and @Cedar Electronics CTO , thank you very much for taking the time and resources to put together answers to some of our questions.

I appreciate the information on how you're using your AI. I'd love to see a deeper dive into it, along the lines of what your competitor has documented with their AI training. Do you see on-device / edge-inference coming within the next generation of your detectors?

I do hope you'll discuss what your plans are for an API, as @OBeerWANKenobi made a great suggestion. There's no doubt that the V1G2 is so incredibly popular here, not just because of its base performance that competes with your best detectors, but for the extensibility the API allows.

A new question I had is what are you plans for Escort Live? It's a great feature to have community-sourced alerts and updated red-light cameras, and providing that information definitely has an overhead price. However you have to compete with the free Waze. Obviously there isn't Ka signal reporting in there, but I would argue the reporting of spotted police is far more valuable to drivers simply due to the multi-validation required and the sheer number of drivers running Waze (just ask your staff how many of them solely use Escort Live and not a combination of Waze or the awesome Highway Radar). I was an Escort Live subscriber for years due to the fact of purchasing new Escort detectors but never cared to renew it or even run it due to the non-existent user base I saw in Montana at the time. In order for your SaaS offering to be a profit generator (or at least a product differentiator) there needs to be more features. You're relatively unmatched in this offering so I don't think it would be a competitive disadvantage to discuss ideas you might have for the future. Perhaps even having a poll that asks for community feedback. I know if my money was on the line with a yearly subscription fee right now to Escort Live I would be coming up with plenty of suggestions.

And that leads into why I personally didn't care to hear much about "connectivity" as the future differentiator. Yes, firmware and RLC updates are nice via wifi, but most of us care much more about features we'll see ever day making our radar detector more accurate and useful. I was hoping to hear your thoughts on future ideas, like perhaps integrating into cars deeper. I was able to experience how Amazon integrated their devices within two weeks into the QNX OS running on a Karma Revero GT. Perhaps there's some CANBUS or OBDII data you could pull and integrate that with the radar detector, laser jammer, and dash cam products you specialize in. Or CarPlay and Android Auto integrations you could do. I love inter-product connectivity as an Apple user and think product integration is a great way to keep your customers within the Escort ecosystem.

Which nexts brings me to wanting to hear more on your laser jammers (shifters) and DragonEye testing. I hope that comes up in a future video. You face stiff competition in that product segment so I'm sure you've got stuff brewing in development.

And finally, since this is near and dear to me, where is the SmartRadar2? That was completely ignored, and while it's likely the least asked question on RDF, I will be the vocal minority in demanding answers!

Again, thank you for taking the time for the responses and I look forward to the next video.
 

eric15178

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That's cool you all from escort/cedar are back on the forum. I'm sure this crowd can be brutal to you all at times, but lot of good information and people here. Haven't been on for a bit. I know in the past they never had a presence here. Know at least once or twice, came, said they were looking for input and just dialogue whatever in general, probably just to give the impression they care and listen to the customers, and then just went away. I'm not an engineer, but as said in a few posts here, there is some highly intelligent people on here, hopefully actually listen to some of the things said. I'm 30 now, been running a detector since about 19. Started with a cobra, on my 2nd escort-max 2, got it after they discontinued it then brought it back for a bit. The few times i have called in, everyone was decent on the phones. Cool you have your own forum. Haven't been on it in awhile. But that's where i got my info before finding out about this. And a good place to ask your brand specific questions or if someone has a problem and needs to send it in. Ive never had bad service. My max 2 had a scratch when i got it. Wasn't going to send it back, ended up doing it cuz it bothered me and had a couple shoddy kband detections. New one had a scratch in the same spot so clearly something in the manufacturing. Said screw it, it's small, got a deal on it, and can't see it when on the glass, on the condenser cover. Don't trust the new ones as far as locking up. My tv shits out, the tv's gone. Doesn't get me a 6 point ticket, 400 dollar fine, then crazy i insurance for the next couple years. I would like to try the theia once that comes out and after it's tested and determined it works without issues. Then assuming i have the dough to buy it.

Do have a question about my max 2. Doubt there is anything that can be done, but had it happen a couple times. Last time got lucky the guy was nice cuz he definitely shoulda had me about 80 in a 65 but didn't get me. I set my volume to the max. However on a weak hit, it lowers the volume. Pretty much defeats the purpose of volume control. On a stronger hit you can hear it. Windows slightly down, music not even loud, it lowers the volume so much on a 1-2 bar hit you don't hear it even when set to the max. Came up on the squad, looked at the detector and had a full tilt 34.7 hit. Thought i was done. Anything that can be done? Not sure if I'd want to hook it up and update it anyway, wouldn't want to risk bricking it.

Been mia for the last couple months. Got your email this morning about the max 3, that led to me finding out about the new redline. Sounds pretty cool and should be the best unit out until if/when theia. As long as it doesn't fall asleep, better range than the max line and hardly a false. My data is maxed out so couldn't watch your video. Have to do more research. Not sure what there all were for issues but sounds like this newer firmware made it better.
 
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