Do you show your MPH on your dashcam?

Deacon

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Guys, a friend of mine is a vehicular homicide detective. They don’t need your dashcam footage to reconstruct an accident or to get your speed. Even aside from all the physical evidence, every modern car has a black box that they have the equipment and training to access and download all the info. You’re overthinking the idea of dashcam video being the lynchpin that seals a case against you.

Evidence is evidence, and it may help or hurt, but it’s always helped me and never hurt me, so I’m going to leave it at that.
 

Boozehound

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1. Cop claims I was speeding, but it was a case of mistaken identity. He clocked another car that looks like mine. Video serves as proof that I wasn't actually speeding.

2. Cop tries to claim I was guilty of CVC 22348(b) (speed > 100 mph). To get the ticket dismissed, I should only have to prove that I wasn't going over 100 mph, since that's what I was written up for. Which could be the case if I actually maxed out at 95 (I'd expect some sort of scolding from the Judge in this type of scenario, but the Judge can only determine your guilt or innocence of the charges brought against you, and the officer is just a witness, and cannot file new charges).
Case #2 might depend on location. I once tried an 80 in a 65 case in MS. Two witnesses testified to seeing 67 on my onboard Decatur radar unit. The court ruled guilty of 67 in a 65 and reduced the fine to $20 or so and no points. I didn't argue with him at that point.
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I’m all for this. Do you know of any dashcams that do this? I don’t. It seems the only way to do this is to build your own DVR and USB camera system.
I just posed that question to @Vortex a few days ago and he replied that he wasn't aware of any that have that functionality. Of course it would require more processing horsepower and they're already fighting a tough battle trying to keep the 4k units cool.
 
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STS-134

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Case #2 might depend on location. I once tried an 80 in a 65 case in MS. Two witnesses testified to seeing 67 on my onboard Decatur radar unit. The court ruled guilty of 67 in a 65 and reduced the fine to $20 or so and no points. I didn't argue with him at that point.
Were you convicted under the same section of the vehicle code you were originally charged with violating? If yes, then it's consistent. For example, if I get charged with CVC 22348(b) and I get written up for 120 mph, but the Court finds that I was only doing 115, I would expect the charge to still stick. But 99 mph is another matter, since it's not a violation of CVC 22348(b) at all.
 

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I was just in an accident last summer. The dash cam was very helpful. Having the speed display on as proof of my speed took one more excuse away.

They couldn’t claim I was speeding as they pulled off the curb to pull a u turn in front of me. They had no defense.

I had witnesses, but the dash cam footage was all I needed for them to pay for damages out of pocket.
 

commonc3nts

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I dont display speed or coordinates. Dont need a record of my speed.
If I have to turn in video for something, I can slow it down.
 

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As @Deacon stated all modern vehicles have a CPU and buffers the data from throttle position, amount of brake, and many other operating details that can be retrieved - use an OBDII app to see, it's amazing.

I believe the amount of buffering varies, but there'll be at least some length present. Not a concern with a speeding ticket, but with a serious accident they'll be downloading it with a warrant I'm sure.

I think you'll find that if your dash cam has GPS activated, not having any details displayed on the screen is likely irrelevant as that data is often encoded in the file even if not displayed on the screen.
 
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Deacon

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I think you'll find that if your dash cam has GPS activated, not having any details displayed on the screen is likely irrelevant as that data is often encoded in the file even if not displayed on the screen.
It doesn’t have to remain that way. Don’t give them the raw original file. Upload it to Vimeo or YouTube
And give them the link (what I did for insurance), or output it with a dashcam viewer app and check the box to strip the metadata, or just convert it to a different format, etc. Or if you’re really that paranoid, unplug the GPS antenna or get a cheap one with no GPS. But guess what? If they wanted to, they could analyze the frames and extrapolate the speed.

Why are people acting like this is a big deal? If a dashcam video segment proves your innocence, burn it to DVD (and upload it to YouTube as a backup) and bring it with you to court. Start the segment at just after you weighed anchor, and cut it off after you pass the cop. Job done.

Or if it doesn’t prove your innocence, you don’t need to hand it to them. This isn’t a big deal.
 

benzr

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Greetings. Recently I got my dash cam setup running with a Viofo A119v3
front and testing out a rather unknown for the rear, the Ultradash C1.

But to my question, do you all let your cams also display your speed? I'm currently letting mine document my speed but have been thinking if something happens, even if not my fault could bite me if I'm over PSL? Or if 10 minutes before the incident I was well over PSL even if it had nothing to do with what happened later would it cause an issue?

Curious to see what you all think. I'm seriously considering disabling speed on my cams.
I never speed ... ever .. Neither should you
Exhibit A. You're DEAD ON RIGHT. 🤓

Benzr
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Wouldn't you be in trouble regardless of what's on the video? The whole reason you're in trouble in this scenario is that your vehicle caused someone else to die. The speed you were going isn't really relevant at that point, it's more exactly what unfolded before the crash.

Note that a dashcam video, without the speed, can be used against you too, if it shows you driving recklessly or otherwise clearly at fault for a crash from which you got hauled away on a gurney and the cop found the camera in your vehicle, in plain sight. And if you're so concerned about that, you shouldn't have kept a running dashcam in your vehicle in the first place.

Furthermore, certain landmarks on the side of the road are clearly visible and it's not hard to reconstruct the speed from the time delta at which you passed the landmarks. The speed indication on the camera's GPS isn't really showing anything that isn't already on the video that a prosecutor wouldn't be able to figure out if he or she really wanted to.


There's a technological solution here. Have the cam encrypt the videos with your public key, and the videos can only be decrypted with your private key.


You could always refuse to provide it and plead the fifth.
Two Words

Plausible Deniability

Why provide Help ?

Benzr
 
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JayyyR

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Wow, I wasn't expecting or meaning this to blow up like that. Everyone has valid points and good reason why or why not.

The biggest things I'm getting from this is they can calculate your speed if absolutely necessary by analyzing the video. And also burn or copy to separate media and format the SD card so there is no other evidence after the fact if need be.

I'd never say I have a recording or offer up my SD for no reason. I'm just thinking if the officer or court demanded it because the officer seen the cam in my vehicle.

I guess there is a 100 ways to spin this but thanks for all the feedback.
 
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OBeerWANKenobi

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Furthermore, certain landmarks on the side of the road are clearly visible and it's not hard to reconstruct the speed from the time delta at which you passed the landmarks. The speed indication on the camera's GPS isn't really showing anything that isn't already on the video that a prosecutor wouldn't be able to figure out if he or she really wanted to.
This, in fact, as an experiment I did exactly that to an RDF member who didn't display dashcam speed by using the dashed lines that are uniformly spaced per highway code. IIRC, he said that my calculation was very accurate.

I dont display speed or coordinates. Dont need a record of my speed.
If I have to turn in video for something, I can slow it down.
You'd have to do more than slow it down. You'd have to obscure how many FPS it was filmed at.


I thought about this quite a bit too and the only argument I could think of is that displaying a speed makes it easier for someone to see that you are over the limit, so it may help not to display it for casual observers that may become more interested. If however, someone really wants the speed, unless you do some obfuscation, they'll get it, with or without it displayed.
 

STS-134

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This, in fact, as an experiment I did exactly that to an RDF member who didn't display dashcam speed by using the dashed lines that are uniformly spaced per highway code. IIRC, he said that my calculation was very accurate.



You'd have to do more than slow it down. You'd have to obscure how many FPS it was filmed at.


I thought about this quite a bit too and the only argument I could think of is that displaying a speed makes it easier for someone to see that you are over the limit, so it may help not to display it for casual observers that may become more interested. If however, someone really wants the speed, unless you do some obfuscation, they'll get it, with or without it displayed.
Yep. They can estimate the speed of an airplane, meteor, flood water, etc., based on security camera footage. And they figured out that the first manmade object to reach escape velocity of the Earth (before Sputnik was even put into orbit) based on a single frame of video! So yeah, they can easily figure out the speed of a car, regardless of whether or not the speed is displayed in the video.

And if your video has any audio along with it, it will be very obvious if you tried to speed it up or slow it down, especially if you recorded a radio broadcast whose speed is known. Even if not, there are a limited number of frame rates that most cameras record at and you can probably detect interpolation artifacts if you try to change the effective frame rate.
 
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jon5

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So the video is used in a case filed against you for vehiclular manslaughter as it turns out a person in the other vehicle ended up passing away.

I’d rather not track speed information. My point supports your statement. We don’t have control over when the information we collect will be taken from us and used against us, as we don’t have control over all scenarios.
If it's possible [more likely than the average speeder] you may end up in this situation, it's definitely not worth recording your speed (or probably even a video at that point...).

Like the coronavirus, everyone has their threshold of risk. The only wrong is thinking there is a right and wrong.

As for me, my dash cams have always been phones with passwords. Nobody gets the footage unless i want them to get it.
Edit: I don't record speed. But that's for technical and battery-saving reasons, not an ideological one.
 
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STS-134

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If it's possible [more likely than the average speeder] you may end up in this situation, it's definitely not worth recording your speed (or probably even a video at that point...).
...and then you end up in a situation where someone backs into you and you need the evidence that you didn't read end someone else, and if you aren't recording video, you won't have it.

Simplest solution is to just record everything, and only provide the evidence if it is in your favor to do so. This covers basically all scenarios except the one where you are incapacitated, and in that case, you probably have much better things to worry about than what happened to your dashcam video. Worst case scenario, you die, but best case scenario within that worst case scenario is there's something on the dashcam that allows your estate to sue the other driver and win.
 

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I think some of you are in a full panic of what “could” happen and what “might” happen.

If your uncomfortable having the speed displayed on the video..... turn it off or edit it out. There’s the option for it and there’s no right or wrong answer.

It’s not like your driving at Mach 3 everyday.

You do you. 😂
 

jon5

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...and then you end up in a situation where someone backs into you and you need the evidence that you didn't read end someone else, and if you aren't recording video, you won't have it.

Simplest solution is to just record everything, and only provide the evidence if it is in your favor to do so. This covers basically all scenarios except the one where you are incapacitated, and in that case, you probably have much better things to worry about than what happened to your dashcam video. Worst case scenario, you die, but best case scenario within that worst case scenario is there's something on the dashcam that allows your estate to sue the other driver and win.
I don't disagree with you. I thought that would be obvious - but you seem to have ignored the rest of my post. Or maybe i'm not as clear as i think i am. Go figure.

Like i said, the only wrong opinion is one that asserts there is a right opinion.
 

benzr

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Yep. They can estimate the speed of an airplane, meteor, flood water, etc., based on security camera footage. And they figured out that the first manmade object to reach escape velocity of the Earth (before Sputnik was even put into orbit) based on a single frame of video! So yeah, they can easily figure out the speed of a car, regardless of whether or not the speed is displayed in the video.

And if your video has any audio along with it, it will be very obvious if you tried to speed it up or slow it down, especially if you recorded a radio broadcast whose speed is known. Even if not, there are a limited number of frame rates that most cameras record at and you can probably detect interpolation artifacts if you try to change the effective frame rate.
Yes that is True, BUT the COST FACTOR is pretty much cost prohibitive in a Court case to expertly assess the exact speed. Way too costly.

So back to my orig argument ..

WHY give them Exhibit A ?? without any cost or Expert witnesses paid.

Just sayin'

Benzr
 

jon5

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Yes that is True, BUT the COST FACTOR is pretty much cost prohibitive in a Court case to expertly assess the exact speed. Way too costly.

So back to my orig argument ..

WHY give them Exhibit A ?? without any cost or Expert witnesses paid.

Just sayin'

Benzr
Good point, but isn't cost rarely a factor when it's "you vs the state?". This also gets worse depending on the severity of the case, too. So as the stakes for you go up, so does the likelihood of this happening.

Man, i feel like i'm playing devils advocate today. I guess it's one of those days.
 

STS-134

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Yes that is True, BUT the COST FACTOR is pretty much cost prohibitive in a Court case to expertly assess the exact speed. Way too costly.

So back to my orig argument ..

WHY give them Exhibit A ?? without any cost or Expert witnesses paid.

Just sayin'

Benzr
My point is, you don't have to give them Exhibit A. It's your video, and therefore, your choice to provide or not provide it. If it's an extremely serious case, your attorney would be handling this. And if it's serious enough, the cost factor wouldn't be an issue on the other side either.

If you're worried about what happens in a very serious case where you're driving extremely recklessly AND you somehow get incapacitated AND you happened to capture the whole incident on video AND the cop happens to take the card from the camera at the scene, you just gave them Exhibit A regardless of whether the speed is on the video or not. The only thing that MIGHT save you is simply not having any video at all so if you're worried about that, don't even run a dashcam OR make sure your dashcam is encrypting the video in such a way that it can write the video but can't read it back (i.e. encrypt it with your public key and don't have your private key anywhere in the vehicle).

But that's a pretty specific, far fetched scenario in comparison with a whole bunch of other scenarios (mistaken identity, getting charged with violation of > 100 mph when you were only doing 98, getting charged with violation of maximum speed law when you were only violating basic speed law, etc.) where it would be to your advantage to have the speed on the camera. Because while you can hire an expert to extract the speed from your own video, in that scenario, the cost would be paid by you.
 

benzr

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My point is, you don't have to give them Exhibit A. It's your video, and therefore, your choice to provide or not provide it. If it's an extremely serious case, your attorney would be handling this. And if it's serious enough, the cost factor wouldn't be an issue on the other side either.

If you're worried about what happens in a very serious case where you're driving extremely recklessly AND you somehow get incapacitated AND you happened to capture the whole incident on video AND the cop happens to take the card from the camera at the scene, you just gave them Exhibit A regardless of whether the speed is on the video or not. The only thing that MIGHT save you is simply not having any video at all so if you're worried about that, don't even run a dashcam OR make sure your dashcam is encrypting the video in such a way that it can write the video but can't read it back (i.e. encrypt it with your public key and don't have your private key anywhere in the vehicle).

But that's a pretty specific, far fetched scenario in comparison with a whole bunch of other scenarios (mistaken identity, getting charged with violation of > 100 mph when you were only doing 98, getting charged with violation of maximum speed law when you were only violating basic speed law, etc.) where it would be to your advantage to have the speed on the camera. Because while you can hire an expert to extract the speed from your own video, in that scenario, the cost would be paid by you.
Hmm ... GREAT Point !!

I concur 🤓🤓

So what you're saying is .. LEAVE THE SPEED TURNED OFF 😜😜

The speed if needed in a high-risk situation can be obtained !! Albeit expensively obtained, but nonetheless obtained if required.

So I will restate my argument.

Do not leave leave speed enabled on your Video
To possiby prevent a lesser lesser infraction from EASILY or UNKNOWINGLY be obtained against your person.

Hows THAT for a compromise. 🤔🤓

And yes you changed my mind on my original argument. I look, see, analyze, and consider all sides, and all options with a non-partisan approach to my issues and grievances.

Benzr
 

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I've been reading up on this and the advice on legal sites re:dashcams.
In Canada, RCMP can take your dashcam as evidence if they suspect it has witnessed a crime. (Unclear but your speeding may be included here) They will however require a warrant to LEGALLY view the contents, like with a cell phone.
Viewing without consent or a warrant will probably let a lawyer get you off.

If RCMP suspect your camera witnesses a serious MVA say bye-bye to your memeory card. (That's if they notice it. Miss more than not)

My true story: I had a truck run a red light, go off the road onto sidewalks and almost hit me on side road at high speed.
I took that footage only containing the incident and me pulling out into the highway to catch the license plate & driver on film.
The nice RCMP officers said thank you, we will send him a warning, but it will go no further because then we will charge you with every infraction thay find on my dashcam clip.
Which was rolling stop at red light because I stoppped 2 car lengths back when truck cam etrough intersection then rolled onto highway without a full stop at the signal line. Then they said it would be analyzed for speeding after the truck (which I was very careful to limit as I knew I was filming, and used traffic that backed him up to me.).
I got no use for providing footage to LEOs now unless it's a serious incident or I'm fighting my own case.
If I catch something I try to contact the other driver not at fault and offer footage to be sent to them.
 

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