Will Mike Valentine be doing a firmware update anytime soon for the Gen.2?

Bloovy One

130,000+ miles with JBV1!
Advanced User
Lifetime Premium Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2016
Messages
6,005
Reaction score
12,534
Location
Western NC
Hardware is latest, firmware one behind latest (basically the one where the default out of box for Junk isn’t On and I have to flip it On). Mute lever is at 10 o’clock and volume goes from 2 to 3 or 4 o’clock depending on “at the moment“ needs. It’s not a muting issue, it’s just a detection issue. K anything is always there and alerts, doesn’t matter if it’s 1 bar or 3 bars... it’s mostly door opener issues, sometimes we use BSM incorrectly. GMCs, some Honda’s, Mazda’s, Acura’s will have BSM hits, but mostly door openers, depending on area. It’s not that big a deal, I know where everything that alerts is and how it alerts pattern wise, so I don’t miss a legit K band, but I really thought the gen 2 was going to have better filtering and from what I’m reading, it addresses maybe 10–15% of it in A mode and that’s simply not enough for me. Hopefully K is just buggy at the moment and a firmware update can address things on the gen 2, but who knows.

The other thing is, I also tend to drive much closer than most and hearing some of the short distance punch through stories even on filtered new ones makes me think I’ll still cross within that threshold and it’ll still alert.
The picture for me is getting clearer now. :)

If you have to turn on Junk-K-Fighter then you are using v3.894. (Starting late 2014 - Early 2015 I believe)
There was also a third firmware released before shutdown; v3.8952 that came out after mine.

I have some tests (and even unposted videos) about TMF2 that most likely directly applies to what your experiences are. :)

Normally for me, TMF2 combined with the built-in K-band muting features means that I'd barely hear a muted alert from a BSM vehicle before I passed it. "Beep", "beep", done.

Over a period of a few weeks Brainstorm69 and I were discussing how TMF2 works. One morning I had a great opportunity to repeatedly test TMF2 by following a new Honda Pilot for roughly 20 miles at desolate highway speeds (70-80 MPH) and mostly straight roads.
Using my own car's distance-measuring cruise-control system, I was able to determine that TMF2 would completely resist alerting to the Honda in front of me until I got to about 25 yards behind it. ONCE the alerts started though, it would continue to alert until I backed off to around 100 yards. I did the test something like 15 times in a row and got the same results each time. I also noted that I could stay around 35 yards away for minutes at a time and never get an alert. I believe I could stay that same distance the entire trip and not hear a peep.

Turning off TMF2 showed that I would get the Honda's BSM even farther than 100 yards and there was no relief until I backed off even further. (Beyond 110 yards. Couldn't measure any farther away than that.)

Note that Custom Sweeps mode is very much like All Bogies, but you can enable and disable K-band by holding down the mute button. In Custom Sweeps, the Logic modes are off I'd say.

I don't believe that TMF2 has any sense of speed so I'd say that the same distances would apply at 25 MPH, etc.


Having said all of that, in my experience, the Gen2 K-Verifyer is tremendously better at not alerting to Honda/Acura at 24.200+/-. I can go days and not get a single beep from a Honda and even the occasional false Honda beep is due to saturation of the band from other sources.
It also seems quieter against Mazda at 24.125+/- but isn't entirely silent up close.

GM's are still an issue. What I notice now is that one signal of the pair is often not showing an alert. That's causing the BSM filter that looks for those pairs to fail to activate.

I'd bet that if you are in situations where you drive close behind BSM cars, you might not be able to tell much of a difference. TMF2 is the primary "filter" in those instances, not the Logic modes.
Post automatically merged:

I don't think anyone has had both v4.1018 and v4.1019 available to them to test yet.
 
Last edited:

Boozehound

PSL +5
Intermediate User
Lifetime Premium Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2016
Messages
543
Reaction score
1,104
The picture for me is getting clearer now. :)

If you have to turn on Junk-K-Fighter then you are using v3.894. (Late 2014 - Early 2015 I believe) There was a third firmware released before shutdown; v3.8952 that came out after mine.

I have some tests (and even unposted videos) about TMF2 that most likely directly applies to what your experiences are. :)

Normally for me, TMF2 combined with the built-in K-band muting features means that I'd barely hear a muted alert from a BSM vehicle before I passed it. "Beep", "beep", done.

Over a period of a few weeks Brainstorm69 and I were discussing how TMF2 works. One morning I had a great opportunity to repeatedly test TMF2 by following a new Honda Pilot for roughly 20 miles at desolate highway speeds (70-80 MPH) and mostly straight roads.
Using my own car's distance-measuring cruise-control system, I was able to determine that TMF2 would completely resist alerting to the Honda in front of me until I got to about 25 yards behind it. ONCE the alerts started though, it would continue to alert until I backed off to around 100 yards. I did the test something like 15 times in a row and got the same results each time. I also noted that I could stay around 35 yards away for minutes at a time and never get an alert. I believe I could stay that same distance the entire trip and not hear a peep.

Turning off TMF2 showed that I would get the Honda's BSM even farther than 100 yards and there was no relief until I backed off even further. (Beyond 110 yards. Couldn't measure any farther away than that.)

Note that Custom Sweeps mode is very much like All Bogies, but you can enable and disable K-band by holding down the mute button. In Custom Sweeps, the Logic modes are off I'd say.

I don't believe that TMF2 has any sense of speed so I'd say that the same distances would apply at 25 MPH, etc.

Having said all of that, in my experience, the Gen2 K-Verifyer is tremendously better at not alerting to Honda/Acura at 24.200+/-. I can go days and not get a single beep from a Honda and even the occasional false beep is due to saturation of the band from other sources.
It also seems quieter against Mazda at 24.125+/- but isn't entirely silent up close.

GM's are still an issue. What I notice now is that one signal of the pair is often not showing an alert. That's causing the BSM filter that looks for those pairs to fail to activate.

I'd bet that if you are in situations where you drive close behind BSM cars, you might not be able to tell much of a difference. TMF2 is the primary "filter" in those instances, not the Logic modes.
Post automatically merged:

I don't think anyone has had both v4.1018 and v4.1019 available to them to test yet.
Looks like VR used hysteresis with TMF2.
 

jfr0317

PSL +5
Intermediate User
Premium Member
Joined
May 10, 2011
Messages
271
Reaction score
484
Location
Houston
The picture for me is getting clearer now. :)

If you have to turn on Junk-K-Fighter then you are using v3.894. (Late 2014 - Early 2015 I believe) There was a third firmware released before shutdown; v3.8952 that came out after mine.

I have some tests (and even unposted videos) about TMF2 that most likely directly applies to what your experiences are. :)

Normally for me, TMF2 combined with the built-in K-band muting features means that I'd barely hear a muted alert from a BSM vehicle before I passed it. "Beep", "beep", done.

Over a period of a few weeks Brainstorm69 and I were discussing how TMF2 works. One morning I had a great opportunity to repeatedly test TMF2 by following a new Honda Pilot for roughly 20 miles at desolate highway speeds (70-80 MPH) and mostly straight roads.
Using my own car's distance-measuring cruise-control system, I was able to determine that TMF2 would completely resist alerting to the Honda in front of me until I got to about 25 yards behind it. ONCE the alerts started though, it would continue to alert until I backed off to around 100 yards. I did the test something like 15 times in a row and got the same results each time. I also noted that I could stay around 35 yards away for minutes at a time and never get an alert. I believe I could stay that same distance the entire trip and not hear a peep.

Turning off TMF2 showed that I would get the Honda's BSM even farther than 100 yards and there was no relief until I backed off even further. (Beyond 110 yards. Couldn't measure any farther away than that.)

Note that Custom Sweeps mode is very much like All Bogies, but you can enable and disable K-band by holding down the mute button. In Custom Sweeps, the Logic modes are off I'd say.

I don't believe that TMF2 has any sense of speed so I'd say that the same distances would apply at 25 MPH, etc.

Having said all of that, in my experience, the Gen2 K-Verifyer is tremendously better at not alerting to Honda/Acura at 24.200+/-. I can go days and not get a single beep from a Honda and even the occasional false beep is due to saturation of the band from other sources.
It also seems quieter against Mazda at 24.125+/- but isn't entirely silent up close.

GM's are still an issue. What I notice now is that one signal of the pair is often not showing an alert. That's causing the BSM filter that looks for those pairs to fail to activate.

I'd bet that if you are in situations where you drive close behind BSM cars, you might not be able to tell much of a difference. TMF2 is the primary "filter" in those instances, not the Logic modes.
Post automatically merged:

I don't think anyone has had both v4.1018 and v4.1019 available to them to test yet.
This is a great analysis and corresponds with my V1G1 vs V1G2 experiences as well. Also, most of the times when I get close enough behind a BSM source for it to punch through, I am under my V1 Driver Savvy-emulated speed setting so they get muted that way.
 

SwankPeRFection

Learning to Fly
Beginner User
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
640
Reaction score
596
The picture for me is getting clearer now. :)

If you have to turn on Junk-K-Fighter then you are using v3.894. (Starting late 2014 - Early 2015 I believe)
There was also a third firmware released before shutdown; v3.8952 that came out after mine.

I have some tests (and even unposted videos) about TMF2 that most likely directly applies to what your experiences are. :)

Normally for me, TMF2 combined with the built-in K-band muting features means that I'd barely hear a muted alert from a BSM vehicle before I passed it. "Beep", "beep", done.

Over a period of a few weeks Brainstorm69 and I were discussing how TMF2 works. One morning I had a great opportunity to repeatedly test TMF2 by following a new Honda Pilot for roughly 20 miles at desolate highway speeds (70-80 MPH) and mostly straight roads.
Using my own car's distance-measuring cruise-control system, I was able to determine that TMF2 would completely resist alerting to the Honda in front of me until I got to about 25 yards behind it. ONCE the alerts started though, it would continue to alert until I backed off to around 100 yards. I did the test something like 15 times in a row and got the same results each time. I also noted that I could stay around 35 yards away for minutes at a time and never get an alert. I believe I could stay that same distance the entire trip and not hear a peep.

Turning off TMF2 showed that I would get the Honda's BSM even farther than 100 yards and there was no relief until I backed off even further. (Beyond 110 yards. Couldn't measure any farther away than that.)

Note that Custom Sweeps mode is very much like All Bogies, but you can enable and disable K-band by holding down the mute button. In Custom Sweeps, the Logic modes are off I'd say.

I don't believe that TMF2 has any sense of speed so I'd say that the same distances would apply at 25 MPH, etc.


Having said all of that, in my experience, the Gen2 K-Verifyer is tremendously better at not alerting to Honda/Acura at 24.200+/-. I can go days and not get a single beep from a Honda and even the occasional false Honda beep is due to saturation of the band from other sources.
It also seems quieter against Mazda at 24.125+/- but isn't entirely silent up close.

GM's are still an issue. What I notice now is that one signal of the pair is often not showing an alert. That's causing the BSM filter that looks for those pairs to fail to activate.

I'd bet that if you are in situations where you drive close behind BSM cars, you might not be able to tell much of a difference. TMF2 is the primary "filter" in those instances, not the Logic modes.
Post automatically merged:

I don't think anyone has had both v4.1018 and v4.1019 available to them to test yet.

That’s basically what I’m seeing too with Honda’s and like I said, if it weren’t for my driving habits, they’d be fine and I can back off or pass them and it’s not an issue. In all honesty, outside of of the Mazda’s who it’ll alert to if going the other way down a two lane road, it’s not like it’s crazy outside of stationary door openers and such with K band. And that’s why I was a bit disappointed with the BSM list where it doesn’t show anything for GMC or something else that didn’t come off the list. Trust me, I emailed Mike every time I’d stumble across a specific make and model of vehicle that K falsed. This is why I honestly feel the gen 2 (at current firmware level) won’t do much in my preferred mode of operation (A). It’ll still blare at the K sources that aren’t BSM and I’m not going to run L to quite it down for that, I prefer the A mode in terms of trust. In terms of Custom Sweeps, I thought about buying the dongle but didn’t because I knew the gen 2 was coming and I was getting BT on that anyway, so I wanted for it to come out. Was ready to purchase and something told me to wait a week or two and see the turnout... then that first unit failed and the test is history... still waiting and hoping. 🤞 Maybe Mike will get that patent finalized and upgrade firmware to take it into affect and possibly improve the filtering, but who knows. I keep telling myself the best things come to those who wait...
Post automatically merged:

Also, one last thing, the other firmware updates after mine did nothing for filtering or anything else of the sort, based on published info. Additionally, when I sent my gen 1 in to have a hardware issue fixed and paid for the service, I specifically asked them to go ahead and update the firmware and that didn’t happen. Guess Mike didn’t feel it was necessary given no functionality improvements were actually made, but I still felt it was crappy not to bench flash it if they had it in for service. Whatever Mike...
 
Last edited:

LouG

PSL +5
Intermediate User
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Messages
4,143
Reaction score
5,405
Much different I'd guess. I'm not sure how anyone could run it with K verifier off and not be completely desensitized to K band, even around me where it's fairly rural. I think there are a couple videos of people trying that on the forum somewhere. If you are going to run it without K verifier to get K range, the whole "quiet detector" selling point is moot which makes a different detector look more attractive.
I did the runs against the Redflex, then for s**ts and giggles ran KV off for the 35 km's back to home. The highway was moderately busy and as I got nearer home it got even busier, with a few GM Commodores on the road, it falsing was not obnoxious. Just the odd beep that JBV1 quickly silenced.
I have not used KV off in town, there's no point for the odd Redflex van.
 

Bloovy One

130,000+ miles with JBV1!
Advanced User
Lifetime Premium Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2016
Messages
6,005
Reaction score
12,534
Location
Western NC
Also, one last thing, the other firmware updates after mine did nothing for filtering or anything else of the sort, based on published info. Additionally, when I sent my gen 1 in to have a hardware issue fixed and paid for the service, I specifically asked them to go ahead and update the firmware and that didn’t happen. Guess Mike didn’t feel it was necessary given no functionality improvements were actually made, but I still felt it was crappy not to bench flash it if they had it in for service. Whatever Mike...
Agreed, versions 3.894 and 3.8945 are identical except 3.8945 has J on by default. They can't flash a 3.894 or 3.8945 with 3.8952 because there's slightly different hardware between the two. Even now, some Gen1s still get flashed with 3.8945 because it matches the hardware.
 

SwankPeRFection

Learning to Fly
Beginner User
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
640
Reaction score
596
^^^ Correct, I guess I was just hoping he’d flash the 45 build even though it was just an option change in the code and nothing else, especially since I asked on the call and in the notes with the repair return. 🙄 There should have been no reason to do so.

Anyway, I hope VR comes out with a user flashable option for the gen 2 sometime sooner rather than later because that’s one of the promised features.
 

n3xus

PSL +5
Intermediate User
Premium Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2016
Messages
200
Reaction score
169
Location
East Tennessee
Do we have any update on when VR will offer the ability to flash new firmware?
 

Discord Server

Latest threads

Forum statistics

Threads
86,604
Messages
1,317,412
Members
21,810
Latest member
CARTIndyCar
Top