Seeking Assistance with Escort Ci 360 Laser Coverage on Nissan Leaf

kancel22

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Hello. I want to introduce myself. I got a laser ticket in Portland, OR last week and this was actually AFTER I had pondered the purchase of a radar detector and laser jamming system.

I knew of the typical chains here that sell these systems. Car Toys and StereoKing and Outrageous Audio and others.

I got the escort Max 360 system from your typical chain store (I prefer not to say which one for obvious reasons)

After I installed this system I came across Vortex Radar's YouTube videos regarding building his test vehicle for best laser jammers of 2019 and Testing the best laser jammers of 2019.

I noticed he mentioned he was local to Portland, OR and he even mentioned a local Portland, OR shop he used to build his test vehicle which he then used to test essentially every major laser jamming system. I was appalled... terrible laser jamming performance on any and every laser gun used on the max 360 laser system.

He put THREE heads in the front of his Audi Q5 slightly larger SUV system and got terrible results on his max360 laser jamming tests... professionally installed by a local audio shop who knew exactly what they were doing. The most professional shop in the area by far on the subject of laser jammers.

I went to this shop and asked them to test my two head system on the front of my 2019 Nissan Leaf SV Plus (tiny little 4 door electric car) with two heads on the back (4 total) max 360 system. We got 100 percent punch through on the front and no jam to gun on a really old Stalker gun (might have been the XLR Stalker I don't know)

We had one Jam to Gun on the rear with at least two other punch throughs on the rear and there was no correlation with distance. Virtually instant punch throughs on all tests. There were at least 6 tests. 3 on the front 3 on the back at close medium and long range.

The punchthrough to JTG Jam to Gun ratio was 5:6 or 85 percent

The stated shop found a 9 degree tilt upward in the front

0.4 degree upward tilt in the rear (less than 3 degrees tilt in any direction is considered passible by manufacturer standard)

The dealer I got the system from was an authorized installer

Degree tilt had nothing to do with the poor performance. The size of the vehicle is quite small and also had little to do with my poor results.

I have run into one or two threads on this forum that finally answered my question. That executives at Escort after escalation from other forum posters recommended all 4 heads be placed on one side and that's how I will fix this now...with good but imperfect results on the dragoneyes and perfect results on all other guns that didn't have ant ECCM anti jamming capabilities. The dragoneyes only got punchthrough on this rdforum post at very very close range and the poster realized he needed two separate systems front and back just like me to fix his punchthrough issues he found were bad doing 2 heads front and 2 heads back

3 heads front doesn't seem to work either. VortexRadar did 3 heads in front in his testing with good placement as far as I know from a professional shop with poor results on every single gun at all ranges.

The only thing left for me to do now is move all heads to one side and adjust the placement that this chain shop did which is substandard on the issue of placement and labor quality.

TEST your setup! Why does it seem like 99 percent of people buy these systems and DON'T test them!

YouTube your setup tested first! If you did and are reading rdforum properly you will now realize Escort and K40 systems are potentially the most expensive and chain shops do a substandard job at best and they don't do any testing

Doing your research you will realize there are shops that won't sell an escort or k40 system to their own mother for laser jamming and they are much more expensive systems.

The proper best tested system by testing research seems to be ALP with 3 heads per side with one of those 3 heads being a transmit only head. The system has the best results in testing it seems and is one of the least expensive systems.

Also chain audio shops don't have a clue on placement or proper tilt alignment or any testing. Find a small shop who tests their work for 100 percent jam to gun performance on some or all guns before it leaves their shop!

Buyer Beware!!!

Buyer Beware!!!
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I got the system AFTER I got my ticket to be fair....but checked reviews only after I bought it and tested performance of install AFTER

I will have the chain shop move all heads to the rear now then have this other more competent shop move the placement and test everything front and rear

I will do a proper ALP system in the front now. We don't really have dragoneyes here in Portland Oregon

Had I just went only with ALP front and back I would have paid less with better results

Make sure your shop tests you. If not avoid them! You want 100 percent results every time and every distance!

I have an escort max 360 as the radar detector. I am happy with the radar performance as my main goal was a system that eliminated as many falses as possible and that's what I found with the escort max 360 radar detector.

I recommend the escort max 360c radar but to avoid all escort laser jamming products and add a properly installed ALP laser system front and back with 6 heads. With two of those heads being transmit only with the optional HiFi Sound upgrade and no additional Bluetooth add-on.
 
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sdrawkcaB

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Welcome to RDF!

We got 100 percent punch through on the front and no jam to gun on a really old Stalker gun (might have been the XLR Stalker I don't know)

The older Stalker LIDAR guns are the Stalker LZ-1, and the Stalker LR. Later they came out with the Stalker XS, XLR, and the most recent Stalker RLR.

Perhaps you can call the shop and ask them to tell you what model it is? If they aren't sure, then have them snap a few photos of it and text them to your cell, then post here and we can identify it for you.

I'm actually really curious as to which gun it was. A two-head ShifterMax equipped compact car like the Nissan Leaf shouldn't have any trouble with any of the above guns except for the RLR. Reading into @Vortex 's laser test results here, I'm beginning to wonder if the ZR5 & ZW5 with the ShifterMax heads is handling performance better than the Max Ci system with the same ShifterMax heads. If so, this would indicate that there is a difference in software that is making or breaking it.... I'm not sure. I'm just thinking out loud here myself.

Degree tilt had nothing to do with the poor performance. The size of the vehicle is quite small and also had little to do with my poor results.

Perhaps not on the back of the vehicle, as the tilt wasn't enough to make a difference. Can you post some photos of your front setup? Please post a few, enough to give us some different angles to see the heads, how they are tilted up and down, toed in or out, and if they are level, side to side. If you think of beam patterns they put out as being like a flashlight, the light is strongest in the center of the throw of the optics, and gets darker as you get to the edge of the throw of the beam pattern. Being improperly aligned can make a huge difference. Even on high-end ALP setups with a Tx head, a single degree or 2 has been found multiple times in the past 2 years to be the difference between punch thru or not. Yes, just 1 or 2 degrees can make all the difference.

I'd ask you to make some corrections in your post, specifically with the product names you've used. While I'm 95% sure I know what product you meant to say, there is a high possibility that you may be confusing others who come here to read and follow along.
  • The Max 360 is a windshield mount RADAR detector with BlueTooth connectivity.
  • The Max 360C is an updated version of the Max 360, with WiFi and BlueTooth connectivity.
  • The Max Ci Platform is a remote mount RADAR detector platform which can optionally support up to (2) antennas; both a front and rear RADAR antenna, as well as up to (4) ShifterMax LIDAR sensing heads. The ShifterMax heads are the same as the ones used on the ZR5 and ZW5 system. Since the optional rear remote RADAR head and LIDAR heads are not included, it makes this a cheaper way to get into the Max Ci setup, and purchase only the components that you want.
  • The Max 360 Ci is a remote mount RADAR detector and LIDAR sensing system. It is a fully built out Max Ci Platform that comes with all optional components.
That said, I'm under the impression that the system you had installed was an Escort Max 360 Ci with (4) ShifterMax LIDAR sensing heads. I'm unsure if you have both the front and rear RADAR remote antennas or not, but I digress that it isn't really what matters since you're asking for help with the LIDAR ShifterMax heads.
 

kancel22

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I will post pics Monday at the earliest. I am in touch with at least one executive at Escort.

Original shop will fix work to ALL rear Tuesday but I don't really care much then about placement

The shop Vortex uses will be tasked on replacement, fixing, aligning, testing on the quad sensor rear system and the new ALP system on the front

There IS in fact a thread here on rdforum of a quad max ci 360 system or ZR5 system and he got JTG every time....except with the dragoneyes they were JTG every single time except for less than about 185 feet. So JTG above 185 feet or so only on both dragoneyes available on the market used in the testing. I can link if forced to. Too lazy now.

You will get pics Monday. It WILL likely help but escort executives and a very competent shop is on this....

Your advice likely help me with the first shop fixing it for free so I don't pay a second time to have the competent shop fix it anyway.

You may save me an hour of labor with the competent shop...then again this shop is really smart and any advice you give may not necessarily help as they will likely already know what to do and cost me money since the original chain shop even if I told them exactly what to do they're unlikely to laser measure tilt and even understand placement at all matter how many pics I send them or instruct them

They probably won't redo the rear heads tilted up 0.4 degrees but the new shop will. Chain shop has no jammer. New shop does and tests. Big difference.

If anyone wants me to use business names for the anonymous business names just PM me

This post isn't as much for me as it is for all other newbies.

This post isn't so much designed to bash Escort. Their record of outsourced laser shifters they don't make themselves speaks for itself. It costs more to do their system right and it is an inferior system with no advantages. Since I can't really return it it has to go in the rear at a significantly higher cost with slightly poorer results on dragoneyes.

Big thanks to Vortex Radar. And to the seasoned poster who replied above. The pics I post Monday won't really be for me. It will DEFINITELY be for newcomers as I want to actually show them in a very NEWCOMER friendly way what happened to me.

You MUST test! You must align! Avoid chains! Avoid Escort and K40 and look at VortexRadar and his website and YouTube videos on laser jamming 2019 to find what you need which is likely ALP 2 heads regular plus 1 transmit head with HiFi sound upgrade and a non chain competent shop. If you want a good shop reference just PM me.

I don't like calling companies out publically if I don't have to. With Escort I did.

VortexRadar already had a shop do Escort for him with 3 heads in front. Escort sucks for laser jamming. You need all 4 to get passable results. It is expensive. And requires a second system on the other side of the car. Not good.

Yes it's the Escort Max Ci 360 with all 4 shiftermax heads the rear radar antenna as well as front

Radar detector included in the system is escort max 360 (not 360c) as far as the radar portion of this $3500 all in one kit system I got.

Firmware was absolutely updated to latest before any testing was done.
 
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jdong

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Jammer heads in general are highly sensitive to placement and install. Without seeing your particular install that performed poorly, it's hard to determine if it is the product or the install. We've tested ALP systems where a recessed install or one where a transmitter fires near chrome trim results in very poor performance.


FWIW I still have the Max360Ci heads on one of my cars and they test very well against TSS and Stalker, but mediocre against newer DragonEye. Escort's solution to the DragonEye would be to move more heads to the front but honestly if I cared to improve my Dragoneye performance I would just switch to a different system.

If you are seeing poor performance across all guns, then I would suspect an install, configuration, or hardware issue.


(Note that my 360ci/ShifterMax setup has a 3 digit serial number back when they were first released. Since then I've heard the radar performance has gotten better but they did make hardware changes to the shifters, so maybe the shifters now perform differently. But to date, my setup continues to test well with 2 heads on each side of the car against everything except certain ECCM guns that cannot be defeated with 2 heads)
 

poolmon

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(Note that my 360ci/ShifterMax setup has a 3 digit serial number back when they were first released. Since then I've heard the * * * * they did make hardware changes to the shifters, so maybe the shifters now perform differently.
Escort has indicated that the recent hardware change in the shifter heads (that requires a new/matching bridgebox) does not affect performance plus or minus, and was made due to a necessary component swap out.
See post # 4 below:
 
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kancel22

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I intentionally wrote this post to give VortexRadar's consumer reviews more exposure. They are priceless. And I want to thank him. I would not have the luxuries I have today without him. There really is no other consumer reviewer offering such consumer protection out there and I think I'm speaking to the choir here.

Pics shortly. I'm fairly certain I won't need help in this forum but still curious as to opinions.

Escort executives and reps have admitted four heads on one side is the optimal solution for dragoneyes. They have an inferior product. And more expensive.

Granted we won't have dragoneyes here anytime soon. I feel the escort max system being professionally installed by a very competent shop (I worked with the same shop) absolutely trashing escort laser products (and they did 3 heads on the front during testing) is bad news.

Escort will be sending placement advice on the 4 head setup. It's funny...I and others have gotten their executive support after escalation to admit that four heads is actually the optimal solution...and my suspicion after vortex tested three heads against low end guns that four is what is needed even on small cars for all guns.

Does anyone have any evidence a two or three head escort ZR5 ZW5 or max ci 360 quad laser shifter system actually works? I believe escort knows their system doesn't even work unless you put all four heads on one side...for JTG on all guns including dragoneyes down to 185 feet then you start getting punchthroughs only then.
Because there is at least one other post on rdforum and YouTube videos by vortex to prove that it doesn't...on ALL guns.

Will snap some pics within the hour. Thank you all for your input.
 

jdong

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Works against which guns? If you don’t take my word, @OpenRoad tested my 360ci (2 heads on each end) against the Truspeed S. I believe @RedRocket has tested other vehicles with Escort shifters too.

I understand you’re frustrated with how Escort’s shifters have performed on your vehicle but they are capable with two heads on each side of performing strongly against all but the latest DE guns.

The product doesn’t perform as strongly as a proper ALP setup but it isn’t typical that it performs as poorly as you’ve described.
 

RedRocket

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@kancel22 - I suspect the 9 degrees upward tilt is why you had such dismal results. The typical Lasing Diodes used today only have ~7-9 degrees vertical IR divergence ! (Typical divergence in Horiz. divergence is ~30 degrees).
In your case, you would likely be shooting skyward over the Head of the LEO or whomever is targeting you.

Here's what the IR output would look like:
Post automatically merged:
 

Jon at Radenso

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I intentionally wrote this post to give VortexRadar's consumer reviews more exposure. They are priceless. And I want to thank him. I would not have the luxuries I have today without him. There really is no other consumer reviewer offering such consumer protection out there and I think I'm speaking to the choir here.

Pics shortly. I'm fairly certain I won't need help in this forum but still curious as to opinions.

Escort executives and reps have admitted four heads on one side is the optimal solution for dragoneyes. They have an inferior product. And more expensive.

Granted we won't have dragoneyes here anytime soon. I feel the escort max system being professionally installed by a very competent shop (I worked with the same shop) absolutely trashing escort laser products (and they did 3 heads on the front during testing) is bad news.

Escort will be sending placement advice on the 4 head setup. It's funny...I and others have gotten their executive support after escalation to admit that four heads is actually the optimal solution...and my suspicion after vortex tested three heads against low end guns that four is what is needed even on small cars for all guns.

Does anyone have any evidence a two or three head escort ZR5 ZW5 or max ci 360 quad laser shifter system actually works? I believe escort knows their system doesn't even work unless you put all four heads on one side...for JTG on all guns including dragoneyes down to 185 feet then you start getting punchthroughs only then.
Because there is at least one other post on rdforum and YouTube videos by vortex to prove that it doesn't...on ALL guns.

Will snap some pics within the hour. Thank you all for your input.

It is interesting they have told you four heads are optimal. I have been going around with dragoneyes to dealers and typically shoot an Escort system as part of my sales demo (to show it punching through). After I shredded a four head front system at one particular shop, Escort told the shop owner that 4 heads up front was worse than three, and to have me retest with three heads. This was on a Toyota Tacoma. Sure enough, three heads performed better in this particular test by a couple hundred feet. Went from PT at 700-900ft to 500-600. Very repeatable.
 

kancel22

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I intentionally wrote this post to give VortexRadar's consumer reviews more exposure. They are priceless. And I want to thank him. I would not have the luxuries I have today without him. There really is no other consumer reviewer offering such consumer protection out there and I think I'm speaking to the choir here.

Pics shortly. I'm fairly certain I won't need help in this forum but still curious as to opinions.

Escort executives and reps have admitted four heads on one side is the optimal solution for dragoneyes. They have an inferior product. And more expensive.

Granted we won't have dragoneyes here anytime soon. I feel the escort max system being professionally installed by a very competent shop (I worked with the same shop as VortexRadar used in his 2019 best laser jamming videos) which VortexRadar's videos were absolutely trashing escort laser products (and they did 3 heads on the front during testing in VortexRadar's videos) is bad news.

Escort will be sending placement advice on the 4 head setup. It's funny...I and others have gotten their executive support after escalation to admit that four heads is actually the optimal solution...and my suspicion after vortex tested three heads against low end guns that four is what is needed even on small cars for all guns.

Does anyone have any evidence a two or three head escort ZR5 ZW5 or max ci 360 quad laser shifter system actually works? I believe escort knows their system doesn't even work unless you put all four heads on one side...for JTG on all guns including dragoneyes down to 185 feet then you start getting punchthroughs only then.
Because there is at least one other post on rdforum and YouTube videos by vortex to prove that it doesn't...on ALL guns.

Will snap some pics within the hour. Thank you all for your input.

Getting punchthroughs on the back even though the tilt is off by 0.4 degrees. I mean I'll fix it. Try all kinds of different positions. Higher on the vehicle...lower....I'll redo everything till the punchthrough stops. Plenty of funds...

But there really isn't anybody who should be buying escort laser products for any reason. They cost more. They are reviewed inferior by more than one source. Other rdforum posts my own post and YouTube. So my anger is with Escort.

I don't think I have time to prove anything. Once my setup is fixed it doesn't necessarily prove anything. I feel that VortexRadar already proved my point though...that only four escort heads work on one side.

He proved three on one side doesn't work. I'm sure install and alignment was perfect. Same shop I'm using...they really are a reliable shop as they did all the work in 2019 for VortexRadar in all his laser testing videos.

When I make pics available. I'm not so much asking for help. I will let the new shop and escort figure that out. I'm asking to inform others and newbies that escort laser products don't really work well with less than four heads per side or that you really have no reason to buy their products cost or quality rise when you do things the way they recommend as optimal (escort reps have been known to recommend on numerous occasions that four heads is their optimally recommended option if money was no issue. And VortexRadar has already proven ALP can do this with only 2 heads plus one TX head (3 heads, one transmit only)

So...it's not so much a I need help post. Which I can't say that I do. It's a Escort kinda sucks for laser post and I wasted money costing me more than if I did ALP on both sides.

It's a chain stores absolutely suck post. Avoid chain stores that have more than one store.

It's a avoid shops that don't even laser gun test your car leaving.

It's a 99 percent of laser jammer installs that see no testing...your typical k40 trash and escort trash are not only expensive but often found in testing to really not work.

Any consumer like me who reviews and tests products for the optimal brand and product and placement and alignment and number of heads absolutely WILL win the war.

Do we agree 99 percent of people who install these systems don't test and are punchthrough city?

I will post pics BEFORE and AFTER and results as best as I can. I feel like I don't have to prove Escort dual and triple shiftermax tests because they have already been proven by at least two others as sucky. If you insist I link on other rdforum posts saying anything less than four heads per side sux despite install quality I'll be happy to show you. Will just require a little more work on my part.

This is more an Escort sucks post. I can't say I'm really looking for help although the comments will definitely be helping others avoid Escort laser. Help is not really for me here. Even though I like all your comments. They intrigue me.

Amazing that install is not easy at all. And that consumers may have to repeatedly visit and revisit their local shop and even do their own testing. Even a good shop only does a few minutes of testing and maybe that's just not enough.

Isn't there a Meetup group that does local Meetup and punchthrough testing but it's cancelled this year due to coronavirus? Does anyone know who they are?

The point: it takes four escort heads likely to even come close to performance of ALP with 3 heads of which 1 ALP head is Transmit only (TX)
It is interesting they have told you four heads are optimal. I have been going around with dragoneyes to dealers and typically shoot an Escort system as part of my sales demo (to show it punching through). After I shredded a four head front system at one particular shop, Escort told the shop owner that 4 heads up front was worse than three, and to have me retest with three heads. This was on a Toyota Tacoma. Sure enough, three heads performed better in this particular test by a couple hundred feet. Went from PT at 700-900ft to 500-600. Very repeatable.

I have seen evidence of 4 being better than three and I'm certain you could prove evidence of 3 being better than four and both of us could easily prove our point easily

I think it really comes down to placement.

Escort radar company account poster on their own forum admitted four heads are really needed with updated firmware for best results against dragoneyes. If you really need a link I can link you.

You could be right. But why did VortexRadar get such horrible results on his Audi Q5 from Musicar Northwest installers who did the work with 3 heads in YouTube "testing best laser jammers of 2019" get such horrid results on the max ci 360 3 head frontal system?

After watching. And having two heads fail. The evidence leads me to believe with other posters here on our own forum that only four heads can really work

I have at least one escort executive recommending four heads on one side for best results. That doesn't mean I won't get results with three. But optimal with four is what I'm being told. I've seen independent forum posters on this forum and escorts own forum by their company account representative poster escortradar.

Remember! The rear is tilted up by 0.4 degrees per Musicar Northwest installer. With two heads that either is or isn't so significant that 67% of my runs short medium and long all had instant punchthrough.

I took a pic of the gun and the distance of the punch through in the rear I was getting. I don't know what Stalker gun this is.

The point of my post is only to provide anecdotal evidence of how easy it is to fail to jam anything at all...be it the installers fault to the manufacturer to different advice and excuses as to what the failure is.

Placement is everything. More heads are USUALLY better but not necessarily. You could get better results with 3 vs 4 for the sole reason that you moved the placement of the first three and got better results OR just had numerous other reasons where if you didn't move the first three....the placement of the four could have had some interference or placement issues all by itself to yield poor results

I've seen quad ci max 360 on one side generally JTG everything but both dragoneyes down to only PT below 180 feet. That's good but expensive to have to do with four heads on one side with escort products.

This post is purely intended as anecdotal and no statement I've made is considered fact. I just want newbies to see what can happen...and more seasoned veterans to comment as they wish.

The two rear heads are tilted up 0.4 degrees.

I'm betting the chain shop won't do any better with four because they needed to really spread out the shifters properly be it 2 3 or 4

Remember I'm moving all four now to the rear and the new shop vs the old chain shop is who I really expect to clean this up in the back and add ALP to the front.

Where would you put the four rear heads?

1 2 3 4 in a straight line in the rear but scattered around?

Like 1 by the rear left headlight elevated one by the lower left license plate number three on right side of license plate number four on rear right tail light but elevated just like head 1 on the rear left tail light???

Doesn't matter to me too much. A new shop will be taking over this project and won't send me home till I get full JTG on their Stalker gun which failed miserably last time.
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My guess is laser measure fix the license plate two heads plug them in to rear #2 and rear #3

Add the front two to rear port #1 elevated UP by the rear left headlight and rear port #4 elevated by the rear right tail light?

Would you move the current two heads on the license plate currently or just leave as is and laser measure fix the tilt to 0?
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I will find the link on rdforum of the quad system working well for another poster at my soonest convenience. I'm a bit new so my apologies for being wordy.

While I think part of this is that I don't find value in escort maybe the biggest issue here is install and placement and your typical chain shops that don't rest anything and don't really know what they're doing.

I keep hearing though that ALP systems are LESS sensitive to installer and placement quality. That is part of my complaint here mimicking other posters poor results on two and three heads per side on escort laser systems ZR5 ZW5 and escort ci max 360 laser systems

Will post some supporting data on quads per side on escort working well. Some other posters seem to have indicated they got sunk into escort laser the same way I did and adjusted by doing four heads per side and did a separate system on the other side just like me. Will post supporting links asap as I wish to expose this further.
 

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RedRocket

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I took a pic of the gun and the distance of the punch through in the rear I was getting. I don't know what Stalker gun this is.
haha - That's a Stalker LZ-1 (Gen.1 b/c of black pushbuttons) as it's commonly known around here, the other slang nickname is "Darth Vader"- lol.
It's no longer made & no repair service for it offered by Stalker if it's DOA !
It was a deadly Lidar in its day until AL-P came along.
 

jdong

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haha - That's a Stalker LZ-1 (Gen.1 b/c of black pushbuttons) as it's commonly known around here, the other slang nickname is "Darth Vader"- lol.
It's no longer made & no repair service for it offered by Stalker if it's DOA !
It was a deadly Lidar in its day until AL-P came along.

If memory serves right, this gun makes little pinging sounds as it got valid pulse returns which made it easier to find weak spots.


Regarding the install, unfortunately this is one of the harder to cover cars. The heads are too close together and also rather low to the ground
 

Stealthbull

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I intentionally wrote this post to give VortexRadar's consumer reviews more exposure. They are priceless. And I want to thank him. I would not have the luxuries I have today without him. There really is no other consumer reviewer offering such consumer protection out there and I think I'm speaking to the choir here.

Pics shortly. I'm fairly certain I won't need help in this forum but still curious as to opinions.

Escort executives and reps have admitted four heads on one side is the optimal solution for dragoneyes. They have an inferior product. And more expensive.

Granted we won't have dragoneyes here anytime soon. I feel the escort max system being professionally installed by a very competent shop (I worked with the same shop as VortexRadar used in his 2019 best laser jamming videos) which VortexRadar's videos were absolutely trashing escort laser products (and they did 3 heads on the front during testing in VortexRadar's videos) is bad news.

Escort will be sending placement advice on the 4 head setup. It's funny...I and others have gotten their executive support after escalation to admit that four heads is actually the optimal solution...and my suspicion after vortex tested three heads against low end guns that four is what is needed even on small cars for all guns.

Does anyone have any evidence a two or three head escort ZR5 ZW5 or max ci 360 quad laser shifter system actually works? I believe escort knows their system doesn't even work unless you put all four heads on one side...for JTG on all guns including dragoneyes down to 185 feet then you start getting punchthroughs only then.
Because there is at least one other post on rdforum and YouTube videos by vortex to prove that it doesn't...on ALL guns.

Will snap some pics within the hour. Thank you all for your input.

Getting punchthroughs on the back even though the tilt is off by 0.4 degrees. I mean I'll fix it. Try all kinds of different positions. Higher on the vehicle...lower....I'll redo everything till the punchthrough stops. Plenty of funds...

But there really isn't anybody who should be buying escort laser products for any reason. They cost more. They are reviewed inferior by more than one source. Other rdforum posts my own post and YouTube. So my anger is with Escort.

I don't think I have time to prove anything. Once my setup is fixed it doesn't necessarily prove anything. I feel that VortexRadar already proved my point though...that only four escort heads work on one side.

He proved three on one side doesn't work. I'm sure install and alignment was perfect. Same shop I'm using...they really are a reliable shop as they did all the work in 2019 for VortexRadar in all his laser testing videos.

When I make pics available. I'm not so much asking for help. I will let the new shop and escort figure that out. I'm asking to inform others and newbies that escort laser products don't really work well with less than four heads per side or that you really have no reason to buy their products cost or quality rise when you do things the way they recommend as optimal (escort reps have been known to recommend on numerous occasions that four heads is their optimally recommended option if money was no issue. And VortexRadar has already proven ALP can do this with only 2 heads plus one TX head (3 heads, one transmit only)

So...it's not so much a I need help post. Which I can't say that I do. It's a Escort kinda sucks for laser post and I wasted money costing me more than if I did ALP on both sides.

It's a chain stores absolutely suck post. Avoid chain stores that have more than one store.

It's a avoid shops that don't even laser gun test your car leaving.

It's a 99 percent of laser jammer installs that see no testing...your typical k40 trash and escort trash are not only expensive but often found in testing to really not work.

Any consumer like me who reviews and tests products for the optimal brand and product and placement and alignment and number of heads absolutely WILL win the war.

Do we agree 99 percent of people who install these systems don't test and are punchthrough city?

I will post pics BEFORE and AFTER and results as best as I can. I feel like I don't have to prove Escort dual and triple shiftermax tests because they have already been proven by at least two others as sucky. If you insist I link on other rdforum posts saying anything less than four heads per side sux despite install quality I'll be happy to show you. Will just require a little more work on my part.

This is more an Escort sucks post. I can't say I'm really looking for help although the comments will definitely be helping others avoid Escort laser. Help is not really for me here. Even though I like all your comments. They intrigue me.

Amazing that install is not easy at all. And that consumers may have to repeatedly visit and revisit their local shop and even do their own testing. Even a good shop only does a few minutes of testing and maybe that's just not enough.

Isn't there a Meetup group that does local Meetup and punchthrough testing but it's cancelled this year due to coronavirus? Does anyone know who they are?

The point: it takes four escort heads likely to even come close to performance of ALP with 3 heads of which 1 ALP head is Transmit only (TX)


I have seen evidence of 4 being better than three and I'm certain you could prove evidence of 3 being better than four and both of us could easily prove our point easily

I think it really comes down to placement.

Escort radar company account poster on their own forum admitted four heads are really needed with updated firmware for best results against dragoneyes. If you really need a link I can link you.

You could be right. But why did VortexRadar get such horrible results on his Audi Q5 from Musicar Northwest installers who did the work with 3 heads in YouTube "testing best laser jammers of 2019" get such horrid results on the max ci 360 3 head frontal system?

After watching. And having two heads fail. The evidence leads me to believe with other posters here on our own forum that only four heads can really work

I have at least one escort executive recommending four heads on one side for best results. That doesn't mean I won't get results with three. But optimal with four is what I'm being told. I've seen independent forum posters on this forum and escorts own forum by their company account representative poster escortradar.

Remember! The rear is tilted up by 0.4 degrees per Musicar Northwest installer. With two heads that either is or isn't so significant that 67% of my runs short medium and long all had instant punchthrough.

I took a pic of the gun and the distance of the punch through in the rear I was getting. I don't know what Stalker gun this is.

The point of my post is only to provide anecdotal evidence of how easy it is to fail to jam anything at all...be it the installers fault to the manufacturer to different advice and excuses as to what the failure is.

Placement is everything. More heads are USUALLY better but not necessarily. You could get better results with 3 vs 4 for the sole reason that you moved the placement of the first three and got better results OR just had numerous other reasons where if you didn't move the first three....the placement of the four could have had some interference or placement issues all by itself to yield poor results

I've seen quad ci max 360 on one side generally JTG everything but both dragoneyes down to only PT below 180 feet. That's good but expensive to have to do with four heads on one side with escort products.

This post is purely intended as anecdotal and no statement I've made is considered fact. I just want newbies to see what can happen...and more seasoned veterans to comment as they wish.

The two rear heads are tilted up 0.4 degrees.

I'm betting the chain shop won't do any better with four because they needed to really spread out the shifters properly be it 2 3 or 4

Remember I'm moving all four now to the rear and the new shop vs the old chain shop is who I really expect to clean this up in the back and add ALP to the front.

Where would you put the four rear heads?

1 2 3 4 in a straight line in the rear but scattered around?

Like 1 by the rear left headlight elevated one by the lower left license plate number three on right side of license plate number four on rear right tail light but elevated just like head 1 on the rear left tail light???

Doesn't matter to me too much. A new shop will be taking over this project and won't send me home till I get full JTG on their Stalker gun which failed miserably last time.
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My guess is laser measure fix the license plate two heads plug them in to rear #2 and rear #3

Add the front two to rear port #1 elevated UP by the rear left headlight and rear port #4 elevated by the rear right tail light?

Would you move the current two heads on the license plate currently or just leave as is and laser measure fix the tilt to 0?
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I will find the link on rdforum of the quad system working well for another poster at my soonest convenience. I'm a bit new so my apologies for being wordy.

While I think part of this is that I don't find value in escort maybe the biggest issue here is install and placement and your typical chain shops that don't rest anything and don't really know what they're doing.

I keep hearing though that ALP systems are LESS sensitive to installer and placement quality. That is part of my complaint here mimicking other posters poor results on two and three heads per side on escort laser systems ZR5 ZW5 and escort ci max 360 laser systems

Will post some supporting data on quads per side on escort working well. Some other posters seem to have indicated they got sunk into escort laser the same way I did and adjusted by doing four heads per side and did a separate system on the other side just like me. Will post supporting links asap as I wish to expose this further.
Placement looks way to low and not spread far enough out on the front and both front sensors appear to be not sticking outward enough which renders these sensors in effective to protecting those headlights. 3 sensors would work better with those wildly reflective wrap around headlights on this Nissan Leaf also the rear placement is way to close to protect the rear. Many experts ( not me) are on this forum that can help you acquire better head placement.
I can’t see a front 3 head system doing a good job on this car unless you fabricate 2 sensors into the bumper mid height and one in the grill under the Nissan emblem all 3 heads sticking outward with no side interference.
 

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