V1G2 Lasted Maybe 15 Minutes of Powered Up Time- FIXED (Powering on now)

Boozehound

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I agree with @SwankPeRFection.

You can go back and reference where 3 of the 4 big players are located. The amount of information released about Theia. It’s a small world. Especially when your competition is also your neighbor.

It’s a kick at the can before something comes out that will do as much more than the V1G2 will be able to do..... with or without an app.

It’s only advantage will be price point. Best to rush it out and recoup as much R&D capital back before you lose those potential sales/customers.

There’s not going to be any metric, (outside price) that the V1G2 will be able to compete with Theia.... on any level. You even get a knob with Theia.

The advantage use to be build quality. Built like a tank. It’s a stone axe.....Well that’s out the window
Open API for 3rd party developers. Metal case... I’m struggling to see where Valentine would have an advantage.

Oh wait..... found one.
Time. Maybe sooner than it should of. Maybe it needed more testing and vetting to work out all the QC and other issues.... but, “Those that wait.... Masterbate”
Get as many crumbs from a fairly small pie while you can.
Everyone has their opinion. Didn't even Jon say Theia wasn't competing with V1 and others? Most people won't pay $500 for a detector. If you think that number is small, what percentage of those do you think will pay a grand or more? I also think the "in the neighborhood" point is flawed. Where these companies are located makes zero difference. Sure, lot's of info on Theia is out there on.....wait for it....the internet!

While I also disagree that G2 was "rushed out", that might be semantics as I totally agree that it clearly needed more work. The failure rate observed on RDF is abysmal. I don't know what the actual failure rate is but what we've seen here clearly represents a major financial cost to VR. I'd still buy mine again because I expect VR to straighten it all out.

I'll also buy Theia. How many G2 owners will do the same? Bottom line is that many of us who can afford a $500 RD can also afford to buy a thousand dollar RD later this year or next year. Those who cringed at plunking down 5 bills on a detector were never going to buy Theia in the first place. Ditto those who bought the R7 not on features or performance but because it was 70 or 80 bucks cheaper than V1.
 

L4D44

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Just speculation but I highly doubt that the Radenso Theia will be a thousand bucks. From a business standpoint that would be a huge (stupid) gamble. Sorry off-topic. Back to the QC disaster known as the V1G2. Carry on!
 

Boozehound

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Just speculation but I highly doubt that the Radenso Theia will be a thousand bucks. From a business standpoint that would be a huge (stupid) gamble. Sorry off-topic. Back to the QC disaster known as the V1G2. Carry on!
Are you aware of the Theia BOM thread? Are you expecting Radenso to sell it at a loss? Jon said it would be expensive and I believe him. Any discussion of price is speculation. They could sell it for $500. And we could get hit by a giant meteor. No one will know for sure until it does or doesn't happen. @Heywood it may be even higher than a 2:1 ratio. All speculation until it's available. Just going on Jon's comments about it.

@L4D44 , are you sure this is a QC problem? Did anyone receive a DOA unit? How long would you expect any manufacturer to power up test a unit before shipment? This looks more like a QA or design verification problem to me. Or possibly a vendor problem related to a bad batch of parts. I wish VR would explain but I'm not holding my breath.
 

Buz

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Unless radenso can get Theia on the market for under $700, I suspect MV will not be losing one wink of sleep.
$700-$1000 for a w/s mount RD is just a whole different league of buyer than the historical $399 V1 buyer who may stretch the extra $100 for a V1G2.
 

Heywood

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Are you aware of the Theia BOM thread? Are you expecting Radenso to sell it at a loss? Jon said it would be expensive and I believe him. Any discussion of price is speculation. They could sell it for $500. And we could get hit by a giant meteor. No one will know for sure until it does or doesn't happen. @Heywood it may be even higher than a 2:1 ratio. All speculation until it's available. Just going on Jon's comments about it.

@L4D44 , are you sure this is a QC problem? Did anyone receive a DOA unit? How long would you expect any manufacturer to power up test a unit before shipment? This looks more like a QA or design verification problem to me. Or possibly a vendor problem related to a bad batch of parts. I wish VR would explain but I'm not holding my breath.
Like I said... I definitely have no idea.
I too believe it’s going to be up there. I don’t know their margins. I also don’t know the quantity/ cost agreements they have with their suppliers.

I do feel that at the most, it would make sense they would target $999.99. Just like most places.

It’s that last penny on almost everything you buy that psychologically has an effect.
$5.99 $49.99
It was less than 6 bucks. It was just under $50 bucks.

I think at the high scale, that’s as far as I’d push it.

That said. Escort did go after them with the 2nd lawsuit. I don’t know the settlement, but they could take a lower margin and put it within $100 of the Max360C. Make it up by volume.

Your discounting personal face to face interaction among a small industry. Your being delusional if you think they don’t.
If it’s not in Cincinnati Ohio, it’s at a trade shows like SEMA. Maybe CES.

Even if some certain manufactures that do not have a booth there, they go. Same with the vendors and distributors, they go.
Same with quite a few RDF members.
That’s 4 days a year.... every year. You meet people.

Then you bump into the same people at the supermarket when you go back to Cincinnati. The Bestbuy, the Starbucks.

It’s not the Internet. You can get a lot more information when your sitting across from someone and reading their body language and facial expressions than just the Internet. The spoken... and unspoken meaning that you can’t get through print.

I’m sure that each are aware of how far along Radenso is with Theia. They may not have an exact date, but I can almost say, with certainty, that it was part of the decision to release the V1G2. I don’t know how much that pushed the scale, even very little, but it could’ve been an consideration.

You waited 11 months. What would’ve 2 more made?
 
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Boozehound

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@Heywood your psychic intuition into VR's business decisions is something I don't have. MV said he'd been working on G2 for 20 years. Seems like they were a two week forever without product. My sense is that the unavailability of parts necessary to build G1 is what put the fire under their behinds to build G2.

Jon has put so much detailed info on Theia online that any body language at SEMA or Starcucks is moot. Others feel Jon is aiming at Escort and I tend to agree. Theia will be closer in price to the 360c than anything else. With all of Escort's douchiness I'd laugh if Jon pulled an endrun on their patents by releasing Theia without things like autolockouts and then a third party company offered magic software that made all that work. I'm all for patents on true innovation but some of Escort's are like patenting a chicken sandwich because you added cheese.

I didn't wait for anything or anyone. I was doing well with my G1 and NRDSP/ALP. But I like the company and when they released a new product and people here raved about the filtering and range, well...I bought it because I wanted it. It wasn't because I needed it. But like you, I'm an enthusiast so there it is. Same goes with Theia. I don't need one. But I want one. Can't get here fast enough for me. I hope it lives up to the hype. If it does I don't expect this to put Uniden or VR out of business any time soon. Many people will pay for a V1 or R7/R3/R1 but will not step up to the Theia plate because they want to stay married.
 
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Heywood

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@Heywood your psychic intuition into VR's business decisions is something I don't have. MV said he'd been working on G2 for 20 years. Seems like they were a two week forever without product. My sense is that the unavailability of parts necessary to build G1 is what put the fire under their behinds to build G2.

Jon has put so much detailed info on Theia online that any body language at SEMA or Starcucks is moot. Others feel Jon is aiming at Escort and I tend to agree. Theia will be closer in price to the 360c than anything else. With all of Escort's douchiness I'd laugh if Jon pulled an endrun on their patents by releasing Theia without things like autolockouts and then a third party company offered magic software that made all that work. I'm all for patents on true innovation but some of Escort's are like patenting a chicken sandwich because you added cheese.

I didn't wait for anything or anyone. I was doing well with my G1 and NRDSP/ALP. But I like the company and when they released a new product and people here raved about the filtering and range, well...I bought it because I wanted it. It wasn't because I needed it. But like you, I'm an enthusiast so there it is. Same goes with Theia. I don't need one. But I want one. Can't get here fast enough for me. I hope it lives up to the hype. If it does I don't expect this to put Uniden or VR out of business any time soon. Many people will pay for a V1 or R7/R3/R1 but will not step up to the Theia plate because they want to stay married.
Understood and he already has as far as I know.

Check out Escorts web site and see if you can spot any references to AI anymore.

There are no autolockouts. Not anything that comes close to Escorts patents anyway.
It does have GPS, but that’s not what it uses to eliminate false signals.
 

CobawLT2010

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ooof. sorry OP. can we get a bell ring button on the forum for every time a V1 departs us?
Teacher says every time a bell rings a V1 gets its wings...
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@Heywood your psychic intuition into VR's business decisions is something I don't have. MV said he'd been working on G2 for 20 years. Seems like they were a two week forever without product. My sense is that the unavailability of parts necessary to build G1 is what put the fire under their behinds to build G2.

Jon has put so much detailed info on Theia online that any body language at SEMA or Starcucks is moot. Others feel Jon is aiming at Escort and I tend to agree. Theia will be closer in price to the 360c than anything else. With all of Escort's douchiness I'd laugh if Jon pulled an endrun on their patents by releasing Theia without things like autolockouts and then a third party company offered magic software that made all that work. I'm all for patents on true innovation but some of Escort's are like patenting a chicken sandwich because you added cheese.

I didn't wait for anything or anyone. I was doing well with my G1 and NRDSP/ALP. But I like the company and when they released a new product and people here raved about the filtering and range, well...I bought it because I wanted it. It wasn't because I needed it. But like you, I'm an enthusiast so there it is. Same goes with Theia. I don't need one. But I want one. Can't get here fast enough for me. I hope it lives up to the hype. If it does I don't expect this to put Uniden or VR out of business any time soon. Many people will pay for a V1 or R7/R3/R1 but will not step up to the Theia plate because they want to stay married.
I can assure you Mike V has not been working on gen 2 for 20 years... that’s before ESP even... and before the SOC’s he’s using.

Mike likes to say that because there are technologies he’s been developing for 20 years in the new device.
 
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SwankPeRFection

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@Heywood your psychic intuition into VR's business decisions is something I don't have. MV said he'd been working on G2 for 20 years. Seems like they were a two week forever without product. My sense is that the unavailability of parts necessary to build G1 is what put the fire under their behinds to build G2.

Jon has put so much detailed info on Theia online that any body language at SEMA or Starcucks is moot. Others feel Jon is aiming at Escort and I tend to agree. Theia will be closer in price to the 360c than anything else. With all of Escort's douchiness I'd laugh if Jon pulled an endrun on their patents by releasing Theia without things like autolockouts and then a third party company offered magic software that made all that work. I'm all for patents on true innovation but some of Escort's are like patenting a chicken sandwich because you added cheese.

I didn't wait for anything or anyone. I was doing well with my G1 and NRDSP/ALP. But I like the company and when they released a new product and people here raved about the filtering and range, well...I bought it because I wanted it. It wasn't because I needed it. But like you, I'm an enthusiast so there it is. Same goes with Theia. I don't need one. But I want one. Can't get here fast enough for me. I hope it lives up to the hype. If it does I don't expect this to put Uniden or VR out of business any time soon. Many people will pay for a V1 or R7/R3/R1 but will not step up to the Theia plate because they want to stay married.
Jon doesn’t need to build in GPS lockouts or any other crude workarounds to the age old falsing dilemma. The way Theia detects sources as legit or false makes those things pretty much unnecessary and useless.
 

Boozehound

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Jon doesn’t need to build in GPS lockouts or any other crude workarounds to the age old falsing dilemma. The way Theia detects sources as legit or false makes those things pretty much unnecessary and useless.
@CobawLT2010 , on what basis can you make that assurance? Didn't MV speak specifically in regards to the RF part of the G2 going back a few decades? That sorta is the very first building block of any RD. If MV says he started 20 years ago I won't call him a liar without evidence to back up the claim.

@SwankPeRFection , all that feels good and sounds even better. BUT...it's such a great way to defeat false alerts that are not actual police radar. What about the sign that uses an actual police radar unit, say, a Stalker. How is that Stalker C/O signal any different from a Stalker C/O coming from a police car with an officer using it? I've personally seen many K band antenna heads from actual radar units that are anything but out of tune in use in construction sites and also placed with the intent of slowing people down. Good luck not alerting to those without GPS. Also, it would be a really great way to get burned if they decided to use that same antenna to do enforcement but your RD locked it out based on signature. Of course they could defeat location based data as well if they used the same antenna in the same location.
 

CobawLT2010

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@CobawLT2010 , on what basis can you make that assurance? Didn't MV speak specifically in regards to the RF part of the G2 going back a few decades? That sorta is the very first building block of any RD. If MV says he started 20 years ago I won't call him a liar without evidence to back up the claim.

@SwankPeRFection , all that feels good and sounds even better. BUT...it's such a great way to defeat false alerts that are not actual police radar. What about the sign that uses an actual police radar unit, say, a Stalker. How is that Stalker C/O signal any different from a Stalker C/O coming from a police car with an officer using it? I've personally seen many K band antenna heads from actual radar units that are anything but out of tune in use in construction sites and also placed with the intent of slowing people down. Good luck not alerting to those without GPS. Also, it would be a really great way to get burned if they decided to use that same antenna to do enforcement but your RD locked it out based on signature. Of course they could defeat location based data as well if they used the same antenna in the same location.
I don’t need any evidence. Yes pieces of it he was working with up to 20 years ago (saw filters)... but G2 has been in the works for far less time. If he’d been working with a front end like this 20 years ago we’d have seen it a lot sooner with less delays and a smooth transition and quicker response to better performing detectors... not to mention patents that would have been granted sooner rather than later.

The OG redline launched in 2007... then it got BS RDR in 2013...

Mike felt he was safe because arrows... I’m pretty convinced G2 was only starting to be developed around the time of the R7 development. (Prototypes not patents and think Frankenstein detectors)
 
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Boozehound

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I don’t need any evidence. Yes pieces of it he was working with up to 20 years ago... but G2 has been in the works for far less time. If he’d been working with a front end like this 20 years ago we’d have seen it a lot sooner with less delays and a smooth transition and quicker response to better performing detectors... not to mention patents that would have been granted sooner rather than later.

The OG redline launched in 2007... then it got BS RDR in 2013...
You must know more than I do about it. I know what the man said in the interview. Logic seems to insist that if he was working on pieces of it 20 years ago then... Not saying it was completely designed 20 years ago, obviously. But he said he was experimenting with the RF design decades ago. Good enough for me.
 

CobawLT2010

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You must know more than I do about it. I know what the man said in the interview. Logic seems to insist that if he was working on pieces of it 20 years ago then... Not saying it was completely designed 20 years ago, obviously. But he said he was experimenting with the RF design decades ago. Good enough for me.
Absolutely the case... but there’s a lot more than just the front end that goes into building a detector like this. I honestly feel a bit cheated with just slapping a LNA on it and a saw filter to make the unit livable... although there is more to it than that...
 

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So he thought Theia had a chance to "corner the market?" With what will likely be a 2:1 price ratio? I see G2 as competing to a much greater extent with R7 and 360. Many of us will spring for a thousand dollar super RD but I expect a much smaller percentage of general RD users to do this.
I think V1 and Theia are (will be) targeting the same market. I don’t think price itself is the major variable here. It’s more of a “specialty” detector vs mass market item like Uniden, Escort...
 

CobawLT2010

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I think V1 and Theia are (will be) targeting the same market. I don’t think price itself is the major variable here. It’s more of a “specialty” detector vs mass market item like Uniden, Escort...
Both are definitely boutique vendors making specialty detectors.
 

SwankPeRFection

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@SwankPeRFection , all that feels good and sounds even better. BUT...it's such a great way to defeat false alerts that are not actual police radar. What about the sign that uses an actual police radar unit, say, a Stalker. How is that Stalker C/O signal any different from a Stalker C/O coming from a police car with an officer using it? I've personally seen many K band antenna heads from actual radar units that are anything but out of tune in use in construction sites and also placed with the intent of slowing people down. Good luck not alerting to those without GPS. Also, it would be a really great way to get burned if they decided to use that same antenna to do enforcement but your RD locked it out based on signature. Of course they could defeat location based data as well if they used the same antenna in the same location.
Like you said, you wouldn’t want to lock those out anyway based on your example. Take for instance something that happened to me. Drive down the same section of road that’s a construction zone for an overpass bridge they’re redoing and have been working on for what seems like years. This zone has two police boxes that tell you your speed and light up with blue lights if you go over as a warning. Each one is placed at oncoming traffic from each direction of this roadway. People know they’re there and ignore them. My V1 alerts to them on K band (don’t ask me the frequency, I don’t know), but alerts to them at a low signal level and starts at a certain distance from them and since I drive that road somewhat frequently, I know that distance. One night I’m driving that same road and get a higher level signal hit at a slightly farther distance out... seems strange to me, so I drop my speed. Low and behold what’s sitting in the middle of the dark median with no lights on whatsoever and in a dark ass suv nonetheless but a cop shooting K band. If the frequencies were the same, had I locked out the signs, I would have inadvertently locked out this joker out for a night staking.

So yeah, you can easily hose yourself with GPS lockouts like that. Personally, I’d rather hear them and considering they’re coming from legit radar guns that have been repurposed, better safe than sorry. Considering all other falses would be almost non-existent in comparison to current radars, I don’t think the occasional “not really a false” to a sign with a repurposed radar gun will bother users that much, since it won’t happen quite as much as pesky BSMs and other falses.
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Both are definitely boutique vendors making specialty detectors.
According to Jon, his company sells a ton of detectors and I’m willing to bet quite a bit of the custom installed ones too, probably coupled with ALPs, so while your average consumer might not spring for that setup, plenty of people do, from fast car enthusiasts or rich people with fast cars to even people who do a lot of highway driving for work in their own cars. I’ve known several people like that who have ALPs on their suv because they drive a ton to get from client to client across states and want that protection. By Jon’s admittance, the forum enthusiasts are a small % of a small % of the units they sell. So, by that alone, I believe there should be plenty of people out there shelling out the money for his new RD once it comes out, if it’s good.

We’ve already seen new people here that signed up because they bought a V1G2 and had problems with it and turned here for answers during the shutdown. Those people knew the Valentine name from somewhere else other than here to buy it. That’s what Mike really has going for him... the name some was synonymous with a hell of a detector. People expected the same out of the new one too and he’s running the risk of losing that namesake. Perhaps Theia will become what the OG V1 used to be back in the day... who knows... only time will tell. What Valentine needs to drastically do right now is fix all the hardware issues and hurry to market with a firmware update app and updates to try and pretty much silence all BSMs and figure out MRCD/MRCT before getting left behind on those fronts. Considering the R7 already picks those up, he’s already got some catching up to do. And hey, this is coming from a diehard V1 fan. I love my G1 unit... I don’t personally think there’s another detector out right now that’s better. I trust it and I will not replace it with something else unless that something is amazing. I thought the G2 was going to be it... still waiting on that to come to fruition.
 
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Heywood

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I learned something new.

It’s the K Band (or Ka) antenna head dictates the components signature.

True Stalker does have make some speed signs. The frequency may look similar.... but do you really think they’re using Leo grade components and triggers for these same speed signs??? Or it’s the antenna.

Let me help you out. Read the specs. ....look at what the power output is.... then look at the reach they detect to. Here’s a tip... IGNORE THE FREQUENCY.

Is that something you think RAI/Theia is going to have trouble with?

Do you actually understand how Theia actually works?

Do you actually think the antenna in a radar gun is what dictates the frequency?

You tune the antenna? It’s a CB radio?


Ya. A speed sign that uses the cheapest non-enforcement grade components with a similar antenna. Yup. I’m convinced. Theia/RAI doesn’t stand a chance.

The only thing closest to those signs are my Falcon HR which is 9 Milliwatts and runs close to 24.125 ( mines 24.099) and a Raptor. Same thing.

I can assure you the reach of detection is much further that the 1/2 mile ...the longest Stalker speed sign spec’s claim.

Oh. Out of tune K band antennas ( lol) ...have absolutely zero influence on how Theia/RAI recognize what’s a real threat... and what’s not.

You talk a good game.... sort of, but you actually don’t understand what your arguing about... or trying to use as a point of debate.

You definitely do not understand how Theia actually works. Otherwise you wouldn’t bring up out of tune guns or ... out of tune antennas ( whatever that is), or the thought that a speed sign that may use a similar antenna from a radar gun manufacturer is going to use the same components.

I appreciate a good debate, but at least take the time to find out how Theia/RAI works, before trying make a point if how it won’t work.

Most here seem to already have.
 
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InsipidMonkey

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Please ease up on the tone @Heywood. There is no reason to sarcastically attack someone for not understanding how Theia works. The detector Radenso is building is unlike anything we've ever seen from the industry before, and it is going to take some time for everyone to wrap their heads around it. For many, I'm sure they still won't be convinced until they see it in action for themselves. Those of us that have had the benefit of following along with Theia's development from the beginning on the forum have a huge leg up on those that are learning about it now. It's a lot of information to take in (and previously held misconceptions to unlearn), and I think everyone was at least a bit skeptical after first hearing about it.

It’s the K Band (or Ka) antenna head dictates the components signature.

True Stalker does have make some speed signs. The frequency may look similar.... but do you really think they’re using Leo grade components and triggers for these same speed signs??? Or it’s the antenna.

Let me help you out. Read the specs. ....look at what the power output is.... then look at the reach they detect to. Here’s a tip... IGNORE THE FREQUENCY.

Is that something you think RAI/Theia is going to have trouble with?

Do you actually understand how Theia actually works?

Do you actually think the antenna in a radar gun is what dictates the frequency?

You tune the antenna? It’s a CB radio?
I'm not sure I understand your point here. The antenna does dictate the frequency, and you do tune the antenna. Further, manufacturers frequently re-use parts and designs to keep costs low. Many speed signs use standard antennas that are also used for radar guns.

Edit: I just realized this whole discussion on how Theia works was in a thread about the V1Gen2 in the VR forum. Please keep it on topic!
 
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SwankPeRFection

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I learned something new.

It’s the K Band (or Ka) antenna head dictates the components signature.

True Stalker does have make some speed signs. The frequency may look similar.... but do you really think they’re using Leo grade components and triggers for these same speed signs??? Or it’s the antenna.

Let me help you out. Read the specs. ....look at what the power output is.... then look at the reach they detect to. Here’s a tip... IGNORE THE FREQUENCY.

Is that something you think RAI/Theia is going to have trouble with?

Do you actually understand how Theia actually works?

Do you actually think the antenna in a radar gun is what dictates the frequency?

You tune the antenna? It’s a CB radio?


Ya. A speed sign that uses the cheapest non-enforcement grade components with a similar antenna. Yup. I’m convinced. Theia/RAI doesn’t stand a chance.

The only thing closest to those signs are my Falcon HR which is 9 Milliwatts and runs close to 24.125 ( mines 24.099) and a Raptor. Same thing.

I can assure you the reach of detection is much further that the 1/2 mile ...the longest Stalker speed sign spec’s claim.

Oh. Out of tune K band antennas ( lol) ...have absolutely zero influence on how Theia/RAI recognize what’s a real threat... and what’s not.

You talk a good game.... sort of, but you actually don’t understand what your arguing about... or trying to use as a point of debate.

You definitely do not understand how Theia actually works. Otherwise you wouldn’t bring up out of tune guns or ... out of tune antennas ( whatever that is), or the thought that a speed sign that may use a similar antenna from a radar gun manufacturer is going to use the same components.

I appreciate a good debate, but at least take the time to find out how Theia/RAI works, before trying make a point if how it won’t work.

Most here seem to already have.
Was this in response to my post or something else from Boozehound, because I wasn’t talking shit on Theia or anything else? I was talking about the other guy’s needs for GPS lockout on Theia and why it’s not needed, so yeah... we’re both saying the same thing.
 
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Boozehound

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@Heywood , I obscured my point with the out of tune reference. My point is that some police radar units can be adapted to speed sign/construction drone use. It isn't about the frequency. It's about the signature. Again, how is the signature, regardless of frequency different if it's used on a sign/drone/parked police car with no officer vs when an officer is present clocking traffic. Yes, I've even seen marked units parked with no officer and a radar blasting in the same spot day after day. If I'm misunderstanding that Theia identifies radar based on the signature and analysis of the signal, please educate me.
 

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