V1 G2: Why do I care about knob vs buttons?

zerMATT

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I was worried about that myself but I'm finding the provided volumes to be really close to what I would choose on the Gen1.
:)
I've settled on volume 4 for main and volume 3 for mute. Unfortunately, I can't hear mute with this volume combo, but if I set them both to 4, there's not point in hitting the mute button. :thumbsdown:
 

springer1981

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I've settled on volume 4 for main and volume 3 for mute. Unfortunately, I can't hear mute with this volume combo, but if I set them both to 4, there's not point in hitting the mute button. :thumbsdown:
I know this isn't a solution for the Gen 2 itself but if you use the Remote Audio ESP device you can turn off the volume on the RD and use knobs to set volume and mute levels. It would give you the same control you had on the Gen 1.

I use 7 and 4 for my volume on the Gen 2 but my car has some ride noise combined with medium volume radio. I also use the Remote Audio and did a bunch of testing with it. Depending on how much it bothers you, it would work. I found mine on ebay for $20 shipped.
 

Bloovy One

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I've settled on volume 4 for main and volume 3 for mute. Unfortunately, I can't hear mute with this volume combo, but if I set them both to 4, there's not point in hitting the mute button. :thumbsdown:
Luckily, that is not how it works!
Let's assign percentages to these numbers. 0-9 is 10 steps.

You like your main volume at 4 which is 50% of 0 through 9.

The muted volume setting isn't the same scale as the main volume. If muted 4 also equals 50% of 0-9, it's 50% of whatever you choose for the main volume. In this case 25% of the total volume. For muted to be the same level as the main volume, muted needs to be set to 9.
 

SwankPeRFection

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^^^ Well, that’s retarded. The knob volume levels were never like that. Who thought that was a good idea? 🤦‍♂️
 

Bloovy One

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^^^ Well, that’s retarded. The knob volume levels were never like that. Who thought that was a good idea? 🤦‍♂️
That's exactly how the manual knobs work. The Lever is always a percentage of the main volume. Check it out yourself.
 

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:rolleyes:
 

SwankPeRFection

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That's exactly how the manual knobs work. The Lever is always a percentage of the main volume. Check it out yourself.
Well, shit, you’re right. I tried it today and sure enough, it’s lower when the levers are at the same level. Hmmm, never noticed that before. Probably because I just set my mute where I want it and have never touched that one. The main volume I adjust all the time, depending on situations and it can range from all the way down to higher than normal when listening to music louder than normal. Anyway, that’s why I know I’ll despise that button crap on the gen2. Ugh... why Mike, why?! 😢
 

zerMATT

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Luckily, that is not how it works!
Let's assign percentages to these numbers. 0-9 is 10 steps.

You like your main volume at 4 which is 50% of 0 through 9.

The muted volume setting isn't the same scale as the main volume. If muted 4 also equals 50% of 0-9, it's 50% of whatever you choose for the main volume. In this case 25% of the total volume. For muted to be the same level as the main volume, muted needs to be set to 9.
This is my 5th V1 since around 1995, so yeah, I'm pretty sure I know how it works. My point is that setting the main volume at 4 is appropriate for the audio level that I want in my car. From there, I set the muted volume at 4 (aka "50%" of the main volume of 4), which too loud, and 3 is nearly inaudible. Hence my statement that I need a 3.5 or 3.75 for the muted setting to be acceptable to me when the main volume is set where I want it at 4.

My point is that the digital volume settings are not linear.

It's unfortunate that Mike V. thinks many of his customers are too dumb to figure out the knobs, but I really think the change was made to save space inside the case, not so much to improve functionality. I'm just starting to get JBV1 dialed-in too, so I'll likely forget about the buttons on the V1 soon anyway. I couldn't stand how the V1 sound files played on the old YaV1 app a few years ago, so I'm hoping that JB's audio is an improvement :airquote: over that.
 
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SwankPeRFection

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Maybe they can release a firmware update to change the level range and make it more granular instead of 10 levels of predefined level. You’d think Mike would have tried to give the same level of volume control even though he went with janky buttons on this version.
 

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if the V1G2 is mostly used in one vehicle, get a V1 RA (Remote Audio) and be done with it. My V1 is on the passenger side, and fully muted. V1RA is on the driver side where it needs to be heard! You and your passengers will appreciate it!
 

SwankPeRFection

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Why would I give Valentine more money to fix something they took a step backwards with? That seems silly. And now it’s also another wire. 🙄👎
 

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It's unfortunate that Mike V. thinks many of his customers are too dumb to figure out the knobs, but I really think the change was made to save space inside the case, not so much to improve functionality.
Are you aware that a company that made those "dual-concentric-pots-with-push-mute-and-power-switch" components in the proper size to fit the V1 no longer makes them?

There's lots of discussion about this a year ago here at RDF. It has been speculated to death that the primary reason for the 11-months of no sales was due to the loss of the volume knob assembly. This required a redesign of the front panel which is what was relayed to us early in the shutdown. There's private information to support this entire speculation.

It would be interesting to measure the volume steps of the new design with a meter to see whether there is weighting to one end or the other and how linear or not the steps are. I don't think it's linear either.
I've always been a big proponent of analog volume controls or at the least a substantial number of steps (0-39 would be nice in this case) but then they'd have to figure out a way to indicate them on a single digit display. Maybe they could use the arrows as 10s, 20s, and 30s indicators.

Perhaps they will allow volume changes through the ESP protocol at some point.

I'm glad to see that you are using JBV1 Matt! I think you will really enjoy it!

Another point of view: (Not speaking to anyone in particular)
Regardless of how many of us understand the mute lever function, from VR's experience it was a frequent support call issue. That proved to them that the masses were not getting it. They didn't change it for 28 years so it's not been a case of catering to the dumb people.

In 2019, they lost the last supplier of those volume assemblies and had to make a change. They may have tried various ideas to retain the same functions with other analog knobs and found the new components to be lacking.

They settled on two well-engineered volume buttons and a power/mute button to remap all the existing functions to. It might not be ideal for every user, but it probably works decently for the majority of users.
The volume buttons make noise when adjusted and that's certainly an issue if you rely on the main volume to control noise for calls, etc. Not everyone has that problem. Many of us never touched the volume on our Gen1s either.

They could have made the volume buttons silent when adjusting. Maybe they can add that to the programming options for those that want that. Many people probably prefer knowing what an alert is going to sound like as they adjust their volumes infrequently when changing cars, etc.

For those with special concerns, they do still sell for now the Remote Audio device that would entirely address the above issues. Refusing to consider the device only hurts the people that are complaining. The rest of us don't see the problem in the first place.
 

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I don't give a rats @ss about the knob or button! I set it up the first day with the volume set at 9, and muted volume at 4! It's hardwired, so I never have to touch it to turn it on or off. If I wanted to try something besides A mode, I can use JBV1. I turned off X band and left K verifier on. I never touched my knob on my V1G1 either! Once I get my R1's and Redline-O's setup, I never have to mess with their settings either!
 

Brainstorm69

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I don't give a rats @ss about the knob or button! I set it up the first day with the volume set at 9, and muted volume at 4! It's hardwired, so I never have to touch it to turn it on or off. If I wanted to try something besides A mode, I can use JBV1. I turned off X band and left K verifier on. I never touched my knob on my V1G1 either! Once I get my R1's and Redline-O's setup, I never have to mess with their settings either!

Must that car of yours...lol. I don't have to run my main volume any higher than 5. Then again, I don't have a sweet V8 with a nice exhaust. lol
 

Kennyc56

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Must that car of yours...lol. I don't have to run my main volume any higher than 5. Then again, I don't have a sweet V8 with a nice exhaust. lol
Actually Brian, I've only run the V1G2 briefly in the Boss 302, I'm running it 99% of the time in a '04 V6 mustang that is quiet as a mouse! I run it above the mirror with the windows down a lot of the time so I want to make damn sure it gets my attention!
 

SwankPeRFection

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Bloovy, there’s plenty of knob controls to choose from. It might not have been the same exact controls, but they could have retained like 90% of it with another newer digital knob. The old man is just stubborn and thinks every decision and way he does things is the best. I sympathize and understand that, but I also know that’s always going to bite him in the ass quite a bit. A generational advancement of a great product should take a step forward and make it better, the gen 2 in my opinion kind of took a side step before a little bit of forward momentum. Really the only advancement was some range improvement and partial BSM upgrade (because they’re not all filtered and it’s not like they’re new signals, damn GMC shit on Pacificas has been around for years). Crippling the controls was a bad decision.

I mean damn, all they had to do is put in a simple single press button that didn’t even have a start and stop option. Power On is controlled the same as the button press now. Primary volume is controlled via twisting the knob and having a number indicated on the display (with or without volume chime indicator - configurable on/off in settings), muted volume is controlled via pressing in and turning the knob while depressed. Power Off is controlled via a long hold with a check to see if button is being turned or not as a check against muted volume function. Or heck, make it slightly different to have to adjust muted volume, like in settings, because they you don’t have to worry about this secondary check and nobody really adjust muted volume that much anyway, it’s primary volume that always has to be easy/silent/quick and accessible from the front of the detector (for visor mount users). Problem solved... he just didn’t think!
 

Jon_in_MN

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Personally would have preferred a knob or equivalent, but still like the new design. I have a convertible, and need a large difference in volume between top up or down. I would also prefer that you had an option to not have the detector demonstrate the volume when you push the buttons. I can see where that is needed once or twice, but pretty soon I know I either on 5 or 8.
 

Signal Environment

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I appreciate all of your perspectives on this.
There's lots of discussion about this a year ago here at RDF. It has been speculated to death that the primary reason for the 11-months of no sales was due to the loss of the volume knob assembly. This required a redesign of the front panel which is what was relayed to us early in the shutdown. There's private information to support this entire speculation.
Interesting to me how Mike V seemed to push this idea aside in his interview with Vortex about the Gen 2, and yet it seems like there is a lot of information to support the theory.

Regardless of how many of us understand the mute lever function, from VR's experience it was a frequent support call issue. That proved to them that the masses were not getting it. They didn't change it for 28 years so it's not been a case of catering to the dumb people.
I seriously question how big a deal this was. I don't totally discount it, I'm sure that they did get calls. But I have a really hard time imagining that it was so onerous that they just HAD to change it. Esp given Mike V's overall approach of "I do it my way because it's the best way."

I don't give a rats @ss about the knob or button!
I appreciate your candid feedback! ;)

It might not have been the same exact controls, but they could have retained like 90% of it with another newer digital knob. The old man is just stubborn and thinks every decision and way he does things is the best. I sympathize and understand that, but I also know that’s always going to bite him in the ass quite a bit. A generational advancement of a great product should take a step forward and make it better, the gen 2 in my opinion kind of took a side step before a little bit of forward momentum. Really the only advancement was some range improvement and partial BSM upgrade (because they’re not all filtered and it’s not like they’re new signals, damn GMC shit on Pacificas has been around for years). Crippling the controls was a bad decision.
I think we're on a very similar page, though I'm maybe a little more optimistic. It does seem like many users who are running V1G2s really love them. And as the G2 matures it may work out some kinks and add a few new features to enhance the experience.

But most of the users on this thread who are defending the buttons are doing it from the perspective of "meh who cares" not "they really work so much better for me."

Totally agree that they could have kept very similar functionality without needing to have the exact same part.

Like you, I have the same perception that Mike is a little stubborn. And to me that's part of the charm of the V1: it's one man's uncompromising vision. But from where I sit he never sold the idea of "buttons are better" in a convincing way. Maybe they were necessary to meet other design/cost goals. But it doesn't seem like he even fully convinced himself that they're actually an upgrade. And that's part of why the change still bothers me a bit.
 

SaratogaLefty

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I guess I'm in the "meh who cares" group. Once I have my volumes set for initial alert and muting I don't ever touch the buttons again. Same when I had my V1Gen1 with the knobs, I just set them and never touched them again unless I was turning the V1 off.
 

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