TPX has no funding for Auto jammers?

VariableWave

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Guess TPX needs kick starter to make a Vehicle version, as they cannot scale or sell their MC version to a car.

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PY004

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Sigh. No words.
 

asleeper

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Sigh. No words.
Yeah, that's about all I can say considering having an up to date jammer involves having up to date lidars (namely VPR's). In other words, that requires ongoing investments in acquiring new lidars since some in particular enjoy being a PITA. I really hope TPX comes through as a little competition in the industry wouldn't hurt but having to rely on a kickstarter campaign doesn't look promising.
 

venom690

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makes me regret buying a TPX for my bike, this only means 0 support for updates in the years to come.
 

TeamQuack

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makes me regret buying a TPX for my bike, this only means 0 support for updates in the years to come.
not necessarily, their system is effective, i don’t see why they would abandon the support. they seem to know what they are doing. the market for bike sensors has to be small. i do acknowledge that my knowledge about their company is very limited and this is just speculation.
 

thebravo

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not necessarily, their system is effective, i don’t see why they would abandon the support. they seem to know what they are doing. the market for bike sensors has to be small. i do acknowledge that my knowledge about their company is very limited and this is just speculation.
The problem is to keep the system up to date against DE requires the purchase of multiple new DE guns per year to make sure the algo is correctly handling the new varients, if they are having money troubles the chances of them keeping up with updates isn't as good. That said dragoneye is a very small percentage of the lidar guns out there outside of a couple areas so as long as you aren't in that area you probably still have good coverage.
 
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Jon at Radenso

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A company using Kickstarter doesn't mean they are out of funds. It can be a way to market test and hedge against market uncertainty. I have learned the hard way that consumers don't buy what they tell you they will buy, so I could see them using it to test whether or not the automotive market is worth getting into without spending a million dollars on development only to find out the hard way that nobody cares.

Of course they also could be totally insolvent, I have no clue. But just providing another perspective - I have considered using Kickstarter for projects that people claim they want, but I don't really believe would sell at high volume. Kind of a meh, if you fund it I'll build it for you type of thing.
 

leesrt

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I have learned the hard way that consumers don't buy what they tell you they will buy
Many of us have also learned that many manufacturers don't provide the product/service they said they were going to provide. Not directed at you, just in general.
 

Vortex

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So I asked them about it and they said they’re going to make the jammers regardless of what happens with Kickstarter. They simply prefer raising the funds this way over a traditional way of getting a loan. It also allows them to engage with their customers more and give early adopters an ever better price so the intention is to create the jammers in a way that’s better both for them and for us.
 

leesrt

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So I asked them about it and they said they’re going to make the jammers regardless of what happens with Kickstarter. They simply prefer raising the funds this way over a traditional way of getting a loan. It also allows them to engage with their customers more and give early adopters an ever better price so the intention is to create the jammers in a way that’s better both for them and for us.
While I understand that position their own words say "we don't have the resources". That phrasing is what generates a thread like this.
 

Vortex

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While I understand that position their own words say "we don't have the resources". That phrasing is what generates a thread like this.
Oh I totally understand and don't have any argument about that. I guess they just don't have the funds sitting around liquid so they'd need to raise the capital one way or another.
 

thebravo

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It does not invoke a lot of confidence in them as a company, while I do appreciate them bringing more products to market and interacting with their customers this just doesn't make me confident in the company for long term support of the product especially in a cat and mouse industry. I do hope they are successful as it's goodness for us, and i get that development is expensive just not an approach i would have used.
 

Jon at Radenso

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It does not invoke a lot of confidence in them as a company, while I do appreciate them bringing more products to market and interacting with their customers this just doesn't make me confident in the company for long term support of the product especially in a cat and mouse industry. I do hope they are successful as it's goodness for us, and i get that development is expensive just not an approach i would have used.
There is no other approach. You cannot get investors or venture capital to invest in a laser jammer company. Zero chance.

Either you are independently wealthy and self-fund a countermeasures company, you crowdfund it, or you make crappy products because you are capital constrained.

The lack of professional capital in the countermeasures space is the reason the industry is behind where it should be.
 
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InsipidMonkey

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Here's the Kickstarter if anyone is interested:

Off to a slow start:
1576163485591.png


Pledges are $500 for a 3-head front system (est $850 retail), or $800 for a 5 head front/rear system (est $1250 retail).

1576163445133.png
 

Phantom Z3

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Here's the Kickstarter if anyone is interested:

Off to a slow start:
View attachment 136412

Pledges are $500 for a 3-head front system (est $850 retail), or $800 for a 5 head front/rear system (est $1250 retail).

View attachment 136411
It's comparable to TMG but both are having similar issues more or less. TMG entered a highly saturated market as THE budget option and TPX is trying to squeeze in right where TMG is occupying. If TPX is able to beat Dragoneye substantially better than TMG then it could work at least with enthusiasts but right now it's not worth it.

Also, being the budget option means profit comes from more sales but pushing jammers to the public makes it more likely for people to JTG and get laws passed.
 

STS-134

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The problem is to keep the system up to date against DE requires the purchase of multiple new DE guns per year to make sure the algo is correctly handling the new varients, if they are having money troubles the chances of them keeping up with updates isn't as good. That said dragoneye is a very small percentage of the lidar guns out there outside of a couple areas so as long as you aren't in that area you probably still have good coverage.
Companies seriously need to cooperate in acquiring guns. The competitive advantage of one company's jammers over another should have to do with the quality of their hardware and how good their software engineers are, NOT with how good they are at getting around Patterson's being a dick and not selling ECCM guns to non LEOs. All that non cooperation does is increase the cost of jammers for everyone, increase every single company's R&D costs without benefit, etc.
 

PY004

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Companies seriously need to cooperate in acquiring guns. The competitive advantage of one company's jammers over another should have to do with the quality of their hardware and how good their software engineers are, NOT with how good they are at getting around Patterson's being a dick and not selling ECCM guns to non LEOs. All that non cooperation does is increase the cost of jammers for everyone, increase every single company's R&D costs without benefit, etc.
What do you do in the case ALP spends 100K a year acquiring the guns and the others spend nothing but gets the benefit of ALP's work? I don't think ALP really has a financial incentive to share the guns at all to anyone else.

And really, TMG's issue is their lack of understanding the market and poor business decisions and not really the gun support so it won't really compete with ALP nor bring ALP's price down.

I don't see how this can be made equitable in the current situation.
 

STS-134

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What do you do in the case ALP spends 100K a year acquiring the guns and the others spend nothing but gets the benefit of ALP's work? I don't think ALP really has a financial incentive to share the guns at all to anyone else.
Classic prisoner's dilemma/volunteer's dilemma scenario. And kind of the reverse of the "tragedy of the commons" scenario because LIDAR guns aren't "consumed" in the process of testing jammers in the same manner that grazing actually consumes the grass on common lands. Someone needs to set up a fractional ownership model for all of the LIDAR guns, and if you don't pay, you don't get access to that gun at all.

But if the status quo is maintained, Patterson/DET both win, as not only do they get to laugh at all of the back stabbing that has infected this industry, largely due to the difficulty of acquiring guns and the way each manufacturer jealously guards their sources, but also they get to sell more guns than they otherwise would, and all of that extra profit is pumped back into more R&D at DET that hurts the jammer industry.
 

PY004

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Classic prisoner's dilemma/volunteer's dilemma scenario. And kind of the reverse of the "tragedy of the commons" scenario because LIDAR guns aren't "consumed" in the process of testing jammers in the same manner that grazing actually consumes the grass on common lands. Someone needs to set up a fractional ownership model for all of the LIDAR guns, and if you don't pay, you don't get access to that gun at all.

But if the status quo is maintained, Patterson/DET both win, as not only do they get to laugh at all of the back stabbing that has infected this industry, largely due to the difficulty of acquiring guns and the way each manufacturer jealously guards their sources, but also they get to sell more guns than they otherwise would, and all of that extra profit is pumped back into more R&D at DET that hurts the jammer industry.
Well then you're back to the issue that ALP is the only one that can really pay. And who's going to pay for all the money ALP spent thus far perfecting their supply?

TMG and TPX is going to cough up ~$2 million to do the buy in? Ideally it might nice, but I can't see how this can ever be equitable.

But even if you got that working, then the problem comes with the guns themselves. They're either going to have to buy a lot more guns so everyone can have a gun they can access, or they have to share the same gun. There are certain aspects of the DET which I can't say here which requires a lot of time to unearth. So that means everyone has to buy a gun each in which case you're spending the same amount as before anyways. But now it becomes suspicious due to the large orders of guns which weren't there before.

If any other jammer company wants to get into this game, then they need to understand how this works and have the capital and a product that is actually viable.

Giving access to guns for a bunch of new comers that have no idea how the market works is just not going to work.
 

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