TMG and Older DET Variants

NorEaster18

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Riptide

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thefrog1394

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I interpreted Jag's statement to mean PT from an actual LEO.
Even if that were true (which it appears not to be), I think its fairly disingenuous if the TMG is IPT to latest LEO grade DE firmware. Unless there's some systemic reason to expect LEOs to intentionally stick to older DE versions, then it's just a matter of time until either they update their existing guns or buy new ones which come with the latest firmware.

I think this is even more problematic because PT threads and testing involving firmware versions tend to get elevated into areas of the forum that beginners can't see. So unless you really poke around, it's easy to come away with the assumption that TMG will Jam all DragonEye with at least some level of success.

Anyway glad to see this topic sticking around and I'm not trying to throw Jag under the bus. But I do think a little more transparency would go a long way in terms of helping folks make an informed decision.
 

Riptide

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Even if that were true (which it appears not to be), I think its fairly disingenuous if the TMG is IPT to latest LEO grade DE firmware. Unless there's some systemic reason to expect LEOs to intentionally stick to older DE versions, then it's just a matter of time until either they update their existing guns or buy new ones which come with the latest firmware.

I think this is even more problematic because PT threads and testing involving firmware versions tend to get elevated into areas of the forum that beginners can't see. So unless you really poke around, it's easy to come away with the assumption that TMG will Jam all DragonEye with at least some level of success.

Anyway glad to see this topic sticking around and I'm not trying to throw Jag under the bus. But I do think a little more transparency would go a long way in terms of helping folks make an informed decision.
To be clear, I was not saying I agree with the statement, simply offering an interpretation that may clarify some confusion.
 

Jag42

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Dragoneye is the not wide spread by far. Only 2-3% of guns in the US are Dragoneye. I'm aware a handful of states are loaded with DE in every county, but no one has reported a ticket from DE in the US from a TMG,and its far more populated than Canada,yes there is 2 DE tickets from Canada, one the engineers agree the lower install was the root cause. As far as variants, TMG covers the most popular DE algo's out there,currently working on more. I just don't see Leo's updating guns every FW, most of the stuff i buy has dust on it with old FW from leo auctions,but that does not mean it's okay to settle. Stalker is wide spreading,and they are invading DE territories. Everyone needs to test there setups, we have seen our share of Pt's from other competitor,resulting in tickets. This is a cat and mouse game,you win some and lose some.
 

OBeerWANKenobi

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Absolutely, the effectiveness of the systems should be transparent and not elevated.

I think some threads delve into intermediate and advanced territory and subsequently get elevated. I DON'T think it's ever been done to obscure any deficiencies. I guess what happens is that it's just simply easier to elevate the whole thread than sift through it, split it into 2 or more threads, and then only elevate the material that needs to be.
 

Bocephus

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I would agree with what Jag says as this is a cat and mouse game. You can't blame a manufacturer or deem a product is in inferior if you haven't done your part and get your system TESTED!!!
 

thefrog1394

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Absolutely, the effectiveness of the systems should be transparent and not elevated.

I think some threads delve into intermediate and advanced territory and subsequently get elevated. I DON'T think it's ever been done to obscure any deficiencies. I guess what happens is that it's just simply easier to elevate the whole thread than sift through it, split it into 2 or more threads, and then only elevate the material that needs to be.
Yea, I don't mean to imply that this is being done intentionally but I do think it is the net effect of some of these threads getting elevated.

I would agree with what Jag says as this is a cat and mouse game. You can't blame a manufacturer or deem a product is in inferior if you haven't done your part and get your system TESTED!!!
Based on what PY004 is saying, I don't think any amount of testing and head placement optimization will allow a TMG to jam the newest DragonEye. It's all about waiting for TMG to come out with an update to support that algorithm. That being said, fixing poor head placement could presumably help against the algs that TMG does offer support for.
 

OBeerWANKenobi

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Based on what PY004 is saying, I don't think any amount of testing and head placement optimization will allow a TMG to jam the newest DragonEye. It's all about waiting for TMG to come out with an update to support that algorithm. That being said, fixing poor head placement could presumably help against the algs that TMG does offer support for.
I think you are pretty much on-point.

The good part is that in the cases of the older guns, it's probably just an algo change
The bad part is that the algo isn't changed yet.

TMG has had to cram for the test, so to speak. They weren't around to obtain the guns one at a time as they were released, so they've had to get them piecemeal and all at once. They probably missed some of them along the way. Other manufacturers got to go through that process slowly and updated their jammers as needed so nothing was missed.

All we can do is keep testing and reporting our findings to get the problems addressed as quickly as possible.
 

Vancity23

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I think if you go way back, when Sarge was still involved, there was alot of talk about DE guns and how this was a focus for Tmg...which is a gun I face here regularly...
 

DChiJEllis

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^This. It was supposed to start as a 90/10 value solution: be competent enough for ~90% of the guns in the wild, *be affordable*, and have the promise of getting the last 10% of guns over time.
 

BaileyAB

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As I mentioned before, TMG is IPT against more than half of the various DET variants out there as well as a few other guns unfortunately.
Fortunately for me, even without me doing testings of TMG like @PY004 did on numerous occasions I knew this is going to be the case with TMG just because TMG came out to fast and I always called it a beta testing product. Now at the end of 2019 and after many warnings towards me and almost kicking me out of RDF community, it seems everything I pointed out about TMG as an objective RDF Advanced member its coming out to be the truth.
It seems it was just to soon to start these kind of discussions back in early to mid 2019 so I got slapped on fingers.

I ve been also told from ppl who own and/or got TMG for free as testing units, the force is strong to keep it either quiet about its questionable performance or to only speak about its "false" superior performance like everything is JTG JFG nobody can touch us etc.

However with VPR head coming out and new CPU I strongly believe TMG will come out strong and overcome its obstacles it had with Gen 1. units.

So at the end, Bailey was right for the entire 2019 year when I was pointing to realistic TMG deficiencies but majority either did not want to listen or had interest in shutting me down.

I dont mind slapping at all, its all part of life and business politics but I am glad RDF community is realizing TMGs Gen 1. short-comings and TMG leadership finally stepping up and dealing with it instead of just posting numerous JTG JFG We defeat all DET guns out there like it was the case in mid 2019.

Again I am excited what TMG VPR config will bring to the market but Gen 1 should stayed in my humble opinion in beta testing phase till now, 1 year later, rather than selling it to customers.

If there s going to be a chance CACTG gets hands on TMG VPR head I will personally install it on one of my vehicles and run through DETCam overpass rear shot speed trap doing 30 over, through Sherwood Parks RCMP DET front speed trap doing 20 over and testify if it actually works in Edmonton. Not a problem.

cheers.
 
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Jag42

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Fortunately for me, even without me doing testings of TMG like @PY004 did on numerous occasions I knew this is going to be the case with TMG just because TMG came out to fast and I always called it a beta testing product. Now at the end of 2019 and after many warnings towards me and almost kicking me out of RDF community, it seems everything I pointed out about TMG as an objective RDF Advanced member its coming out to be the truth.
It seems it was just to soon to start these kind of discussions back in early to mid 2019 so I got slapped on fingers.

I ve been also told from ppl who own and/or got TMG for free as testing units, the force is strong to keep it either quiet about its questionable performance or to only speak about its "false" superior performance like everything is JTG JFG nobody can touch us etc.

However with VPR head coming out and new CPU I strongly believe TMG will come out strong and overcome its obstacles it had with Gen 1. units.

So at the end, Bailey was right for the entire 2019 year when I was pointing to realistic TMG deficiencies but majority either did not want to listen or had interest in shutting me down.

I dont mind slapping at all, its all part of life and business politics but I am glad RDF community is realizing TMGs Gen 1. short-comings and TMG leadership finally stepping up and dealing with it instead of just posting numerous JTG JFG We defeat all DET guns out there like it was the case in mid 2019.

Again I am excited what TMG VPR config will bring to the market but Gen 1 should stayed in my humble opinion in beta testing phase till now, 1 year later, rather than selling it to customers.

If there s going to be a chance CACTG gets hands on TMG VPR head I will personally install it on one of my vehicles and run through DETCam overpass rear shot speed trap doing 30 over, through Sherwood Parks RCMP DET front speed trap doing 20 over and testify if it actually works in Edmonton. Not a problem.

cheers.

Alp was not ready to jam Dragoneye years ago and some on here now need 2 TX heads up front to properly jam DE, so they went through growing pains as well. Users getting free units were asked to be 100% honest with testing results,you can ask everyone. I'm not sure where you heard this "rumor" however if placement, or using to many heads close together is an issue,i will look at these tests invalid. Gen1 has been very successful so far with jamming legacy,and the most popular variants of DE and XLR. I have many Florida customers who encounter DE daily on the turn pike,and call me to praise the TMG system. My inbox is full of customer testimonials regarding DE saves. Something must be working for them.
 

thanks

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Alp was not ready to jam Dragoneye years ago and some on here now need 2 TX heads up front to properly jam DE, so they went through growing pains as well. Users getting free units were asked to be 100% honest with testing results,you can ask everyone. I'm not sure where you heard this "rumor" however if placement, or using to many heads close together is an issue,i will look at these tests invalid. Gen1 has been very successful so far with jamming legacy,and the most popular variants of DE and XLR. I have many Florida customers who encounter DE daily on the turn pike,and call me to praise the TMG system. My inbox is full of customer testimonials regarding DE saves. Something must be working for them.
Please dont brush aside valid concerns with "something must be working for them". Maybe LUCK is on their side and not TMG?
Please open your eyes and listen what is being said. They are not personal attacks on you @Jag42 or TMG. They are observations and tests which should be addressed, and not pushed aside as outliers.... many here consider their locations as the center of the CM battle and not outliers....
 

Kennyc56

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Alp was not ready to jam Dragoneye years ago and some on here now need 2 TX heads up front to properly jam DE, so they went through growing pains as well. Users getting free units were asked to be 100% honest with testing results,you can ask everyone. I'm not sure where you heard this "rumor" however if placement, or using to many heads close together is an issue,i will look at these tests invalid. Gen1 has been very successful so far with jamming legacy,and the most popular variants of DE and XLR. I have many Florida customers who encounter DE daily on the turn pike,and call me to praise the TMG system. My inbox is full of customer testimonials regarding DE saves. Something must be working for them.
You are never going to satisfy some people no matter what! @VariableWave and I have run countless tests on every radar detector on Earth and have always let the chips fall where they may. Testing laser is no different! If you'll notice, when I mentioned how at our last 2 tests we had 2 brand new ALP triple systems WITH Tx heads get there @ss handed to them before adjustments, all I heard were crickets! @VariableWave , @The Pope , @delthom899 , @Th3 Factory Freak , @LinuxD and others were there! Go ahead and call us all liars! I asked Jared to get me a TMG dual setup and was going to buy it when I had a bad accident at work and damn near broke my right leg! At the time I could hardly walk and didn't know how much work I was going to miss so guess how much buying a laser jammer system was on my mind at that point? Jag sent me my kit out of the goodness of his heart and asked for nothing at all in return! I told him that we were going to test the pure hell out of it and post the results exactly how they happened. He told me to go for it and that's just what we've done and will continue to do! Like @Jag42 said, this is an on going battle. Thats why we have to keep updating for new guns as they make changes, and keep on testing! If my TMG system sucked I'd say so! I can buy any damn laser setup that's out there but I'm totally satisfied with what I have and very soon will be getting 2 more heads for the rear as well!
 
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V1Jake

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LinuxD

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I'd get into the whole laser jammer testing thing ,more from an installation point, but as my trusty 26 yr old truck is speed limited to 90 mph... i don't do a lot of speeding, tho I'd like to see how many heads it takes to cover a full sized mid 90's truck, but I can't justify the cost as i am not a speed demon. but i can verify what @Kennyc56 stated, i was there and saw the testing and end results. My main interests an focus is mostly radar detectors and radar guns, but I learned a boatload while doing some testing with everyone @Kennyc56 mentioned and hope to learn even more as we do more testing. In fact I have segged my DFR7 and next time we do some testing, plan on checking it out against various guns and report back to the guys in the NZ /Aus forum.
 

dudeinnz

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@BaileyAB it is not what you said, it is how you said it.

You are starting to post trolling posts once again. I kindly request you to evaluate your posts before posting repeated stuff which you have posted in the past which to be honest adds zero value to this thread and comes across as trolling.

To be honest I am not an expert at laser, but looking at that setup, we all know it wasn’t ideal.

We all know the limitations of TMG against DE, no one is denying it. TMG would not be working on a dedicated VPR head and control box otherwise. Repeated hashing of it by one member raises red flags. Please think about your future posts in the TMG section.

Thanks.
 

thefrog1394

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You are never going to satisfy some people no matter what! @VariableWave and I have run countless tests on every radar detector on Earth and have always let the chips fall where they may. Testing laser is no different! If you'll notice, when I mentioned how at our last 2 tests we had 2 brand new ALP triple systems WITH Tx heads get there @ss handed to them before adjustments, all I heard were crickets! @VariableWave , @The Pope , @delthom899 , @Th3 Factory Freak , @LinuxD and others were there! Go ahead and call us all liars! I asked Jared to get me a TMG dual setup and was going to buy it when I had a bad accident at work and damn near broke my right leg! At the time I could hardly walk and didn't know how much work I was going to miss so guess how much buying a laser jammer system was on my mind at that point? Jag sent me my kit out of the goodness of his heart and asked for nothing at all in return! I told him that we were going to test the pure hell out of it and post the results exactly how they happened. He told me to go for it and that's just what we've done and will continue to do! Like @Jag42 said, this is an on going battle. Thats why we have to keep updating for new guns as they make changes, and keep on testing! If my TMG system sucked I'd say so! I can buy any damn laser setup that's out there but I'm totally satisfied with what I have and very soon will be getting 2 more heads for the rear as well!
I don't think anyone is claiming that jammer setups are not highly affected by install details. In fact, I've heard that ALP is actually MORE sensitive to poor installs than TMG due to how some of their algorithms work.

The issue is that TMG literally does not work at all against certain DragonEye firmware versions including the newest. This is a completely different issue than poor performance with a bad install. And is also something that could easily be completely missed in testing if the versions of DragonEye you are using happen to have firmware versions that TMG fully supports.

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here so I'm not sure if there's much else to add, but to the folks defending TMG, if it works in your area, that's great. And I'm glad folks are supporting them as a company so they can continue to develop. But please don't conflate poor install issues which effect both TMG and ALP and some of the algorithm specific DE issues that TMG has. And for the record, I'm not accusing any testers of lying or covering up intentionally. Some of the BailyAB theories do seem to border on conspiracy theories, but I don't really know enough about what happened to comment.
 
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